Low carb diets and Diabetes UK

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SamJB

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A few months ago I posted a request on this forum for low carb diet research papers in the attempt to persuade Diabetes UK to change its policy on low carb diets. I've presented these papers to a member of the Care Team at DUK. I don't know who, despite several requests for their name, they declined to give it.

The Care Team seem to be made up of a bunch of dieticians, so this was a tall order. In the end I managed to get their statement on low carb diets for Type 1s changed from, succinctly, "there is no published evidence that it works", to "there is no published evidence that it works, but we know some Type 1s use it to control their levels". I couldn't get anywhere with persuading them to change their advice on Type 2s. You can see the full statement here: http://www.diabetes.org.uk/About_us...tion-of-carbohydrate-in-people-with-diabetes/

Unfortunately, I don't think I'm going to get any further with them on this. I work in oncology clinical trials and have spent a decade in scientific research. I'm lucky that in my job, I am surrounded by high-calibre clinicians who will explore every avenue to improve efficacy (how well a treatment plan works). The person on the Care Team that I was dealing with is, regrettably, nowhere near the standards that I am used to. They have clearly deliberately chosen to only include negative references regarding low carb diets in their summary. It is the most bias scientific summary I have ever read. I have been quite candid with them on this, but like requests on the name of the person I was dealing with, I had no response from them on this.

To improve the results of the National Diabetes Audit, where only 7% of Type 1s and 25% of Type 2s achieve the HbA1c target of 6.5%, all efficacious treatment paths must be embraced. Consequently, I don't have any confidence that the Care Team will embrace such methods to improve efficacy.

I subsequently had a meeting with one of the directors of Diabetes UK, who agreed with me that potentially innovative and efficacious treatments must not be dismissed by the Care Team and should be followed up upon. She forwarded the papers I referenced onto the research director at DUK, but I'm yet to hear back.

The worst thing that a clinician, or group like Diabetes UK can do is to ignore patient experience, but that is what they are doing, in my opinion. I expect that we will be looking at the dreadful HbA1c statistics for many years to come.
 
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hanadr

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Sam, I gave them loads of stuff a few years ago, but they WON'T budge. Not even for the Swedish study, which collected data for 4 years!
" There's none so blind they WILL NOT see"
 
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hanadr

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PS see you there next month?
Hana
 

paul-1976

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The DUK wall is such a big wall to knock down!:( but I'm very grateful for the knowledgeable people such as yourself and many others who continue to try for change.
 
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SamJB

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Sam, I gave them loads of stuff a few years ago, but they WON'T budge. Not even for the Swedish study, which collected data for 4 years!
" There's none so blind they WILL NOT see"

It's a real shame they won't listen Hana. It's no exaggeration to say that, people are dying because DUK are being so closed book about this.
 
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SamJB

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The DUK wall is such a big wall to knock down!:( but I'm very grateful for the knowledgeable people such as yourself and many others who continue to try for change.

Thanks, Paul. Shame there was not a more positive response.
 
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fatbird

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Could this be the reason?-duk sponsors.

Abbott Bayer Boehringer Ingelheim Bristol Myers Squibb Bupa Bunzl Everyclick First Capital Connect Flora pro.activ Kodak Lilly Lloyds Pharmacy Menarini Merck Serono Morphy Richards Merck Sharp & Dohme Limited Novartis Novo Nordisk Nursing Times PAL Technologies Ltd Pfizer Rowlands Pharmacies Sanofi-aventis Splenda Takeda Tesco Diets

FB
 
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Patch13

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I am also grateful that both you and Hana are trying to get them to listen. It's unfortunate that they are not willing to make changes, but at least you can try to share your knowledge on here with us lot who really want to know what we can do to stay healthy.


Sent from the Diabetes Forum App
 
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Madbazoo

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That is absolutely appalling. Am withdrawing my support for them by way of donations both cash and support for charity donations to the shop. Lets spread the word to all our connections and support groups. Will they listen more when it hits them in their pocket.


Sent from the Diabetes Forum App
 
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desidiabulum

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The danger with claiming that it's all about money, biased sponsorship and conspiracies is that it breeds a sense of helplessness, cynicism and indifference, and that will not change anything. Like most organizations, DUK is not an evil cynical conspiracy run by self-consciously nasty people -- sure there may be some manipulation going on, but there are also people in it who are simply and honestly misled, and are guilty of no more than lazy thinking or complacency. And in some areas, such as the annual checks, they are doing good and important work. But what Sam has clearly demonstrated, and Daibell and Hana, and as I have found in my own more minor way, is that DUK cannot be changed by pressure from below. It is the people at the top of the organization who need to be sought out and appealed to, in my opinion. The one thing that I hope we can all agree upon is that DUK cannot be ignored -- they are too powerful for that.
 
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noblehead

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Just keep chipping away Sam, you've achieved something by them changing the wording to:

"there is no published evidence that it works, but we know some Type 1s use it to control their levels"
 
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SamJB

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The danger with claiming that it's all about money, biased sponsorship and conspiracies is that it breeds a sense of helplessness, cynicism and indifference, and that will not change anything. Like most organizations, DUK is not an evil cynical conspiracy run by self-consciously nasty people -- sure there may be some manipulation going on, but there are also people in it who are simply and honestly misled, and are guilty of no more than lazy thinking or complacency. And in some areas, such as the annual checks, they are doing good and important work. But what Sam has clearly demonstrated, and Daibell and Hana, and as I have found in my own more minor way, is that DUK cannot be changed by pressure from below. It is the people at the top of the organization who need to be sought out and appealed to, in my opinion. The one thing that I hope we can all agree upon is that DUK cannot be ignored -- they are too powerful for that.

I agree. DUK are a fantastic organisation that have done so much for diabetes in the UK, each and every one of us owes our life to the research that they have funded and the lobbying that they have done for us. There are some wonderfully competent and passionate people working there. Many of them don't have diabetes, but they fight tooth and nail for us.

This isn't about money, sponsorship, or anything untoward like that. The Care Team want us to control our diabetes via a "healthy balanced diet" and they do have our best interests in this. The stat of 93% and 75% of Type 1s and 2s not achieving the HbA1c target of 6.5%, strongly suggests that this is not working. I just find it astonishing that efficacious methods, and patients, are being ignored when we so desperately need to improve these stats. I work in oncology and I've NEVER seen such bad efficacy stats, every efficacious method must be embraced.
 
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SamJB

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Just keep chipping away Sam, you've achieved something by them changing the wording to:

"there is no published evidence that it works, but we know some Type 1s use it to control their levels"

Thanks, Noblehead.
 

fatbird

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desi said.

"The one thing that I hope we can all agree upon is that DUK cannot be ignored -- they are too powerful for that."

It is the companies behind DUK that wields the power.

FB
 
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desidiabulum

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desi said.

"The one thing that I hope we can all agree upon is that DUK cannot be ignored -- they are too powerful for that."

It is the companies behind DUK that wields the power.

FB

You mean First Capital Connect???!!! Sorry FB -- it's easy to say things like that, more difficult to prove. Life isn't always black and white (except on a zebra crossing).
 
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mrman

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From what ive read much of the focus is shifting to prevention rather than treating both type 1s and 2s, leaving those already diagnosed to fend for ourselves.

Sent from the Diabetes Forum App
 
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carraway

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Have you read anything by Ben Goldacre? I think after reading his accounts on medicine and pharmaceutical companies your report comes as no surprise

I think the fact they they have changed one sentence may be a start to put some seeds of inspiration into some people. They may go off and start to research this approach

Don't get disheartened.

As a newish Type 2, I have read the advice you have give me and others in the group and I know you will have helped many people personally.

It may be the slow road that gets there......

I would like to thank you for your efforts so far.



Cara
 
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fatbird

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"You mean First Capital Connect???!!! Sorry FB -- it's easy to say things like that, more difficult to prove. Life isn't always black and white (except on a zebra crossing)."

I was referring to the pharma companies that would lose huge sums of money if DUK recommended a low carb diet.

FB
 
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SamJB

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Have you read anything by Ben Goldacre? I think after reading his accounts on medicine and pharmaceutical companies your report comes as no surprise

I think the fact they they have changed one sentence may be a start to put some seeds of inspiration into some people. They may go off and start to research this approach

Don't get disheartened.

As a newish Type 2, I have read the advice you have give me and others in the group and I know you will have helped many people personally.

It may be the slow road that gets there......

I would like to thank you for your efforts so far.



Cara
Thanks, Cara. That's very nice to hear!
 
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