Low-carb, high cholesterol, wont take statins - help

[stuffedolive]

I came off statins a few years ago because they were playing havoc with my body. My muscles constantly ached and my athletic performance and strength dropped off a cliff. I was never checked in the year I was on them. However, even though I had such a bad response, the doc keeps trying to persuade me back on them - assassin!

My cholesterol moves between high 5's and mid 6's. I've been drinking Benecol which seems to drop it by upto 1% and I have now started taking a clove of garlic each day as advised by a sympathetic Asian doctor who really believes it helps.

However, in order to regain control of my HBA1c (I'm not still not currently medicated after 10years) I have started a low-carb diet. I am now really worried that the increased fats are going to raise my cholesterol substantially.
Any advice is most welcome.
Thanks

 

[Yorksman]

I am managing my diabetes without meds but have been taking simvastatin for many years for different reasons. I ultimately want to give these up. As part of my diabetes management, I am losing weight so the combination of managing glucose, wanting to cut down on statins and lose weight makes eating fats problematic. I stick to low GI carbs and cut the fat off things like bacon or pork chops. I use butter and oils sparingly. I will eat things like salami and cheese which contain fat, but am careful not to eat too much. The net result is a loss of 22 kg since christmas, bg levels in the normal range and lipids have improved and are near normal.

Another benefit is achieved by exercise immediately after a meal. One of Michael Mosley's programmes demonstrated in clear terms the effect of a large cooked breakfast on his blood fats. After a good plateful of bacon, sausage, eggs and black pudding, blood was taken and put in a centrifuge. The various substances separate in a centrifuge and the fatty elements float to the top in the clearer liquid.

The above photo is centrifuged blood from an umbilical cord and is as free from fatty deposits as this child will ever be. Michael Mosley's sample however had a 1cm deep milky layer at the top, the result of his breakfast. The following day however, the exercise was repeated but he went for a brisk walk after his fatty meal. Now, the fatty layer in the blood sample was reduced by about 1/3rd. Exercise boosts the production of enzymes which deal with fats. The benefit lasts about 12 hours.

You don't have to do much either, no running or pumping iron. This statement from one study is typical:

"Mild exercise alone and with energy restriction caused a decrease in low-density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol by over 12 mg/100 ml without affecting high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol which contributed to a more favourable LDL:HDL ratio."

Walking off a meal or taking a daily constitutional does help!

 

[stuffedolive]

Thanks Yorksman
I do do a fair bit of exercise. 7-8hours a week, consisting of 3 runs (40-90minutes), 2 weights/circuits sessions, a cross-trainer session and often a walk too.
I am though interested in 'when' to exercise. A sports coach would say don't exercise within 2 hours of eating, although they wouldn't be referring to walking. Many of my runs are done in the morning well before my main meal. I'm now thinking that if I ran just before my main meal that would be as good as exercising just after it - maybe?
Also, although my cholesterol is high, the ratios are good, so am I worrying unnecessarily?

 

[Superchip]

Yes you are worrying unnecessarily !

The cholesterol myth is slowly being blown out of the water, not before time.

It sells a staggering amount of daft chol lowering products and statin type medicines. Please can anybody CLINICALLY PROVE to me that it has made a scrap of difference to the rates of cvd and mortality rates ?
I've had a new ticker for close on 19 years now, refuse point blank any chol lowering drug nonsense and eat lots of fats, preferably animal saturated. My consultant and gp are both apalled and amazed at my success. Last chol 7.4, this time 6.2 after upping my input of lovely sat fat, cream, eggs, proper milk and quality meats. Just don't eat anything from a can and cut out anything that is processed, not easy these days but it can be done. I don't do carbs either. ( 41 )

Keep calm eat fat and carry on,

Superchip

 

[MCMLXXIII]

There's a point superchip.
Look at the Cypriots.
Higher cholesterol ( nearly all males smoke)
And they live longer than we do!

@myroomsadisco

 

[Yorksman]

I am though interested in 'when' to exercise. A sports coach would say don't exercise within 2 hours of eating, although they wouldn't be referring to walking. Many of my runs are done in the morning well before my main meal. I'm now thinking that if I ran just before my main meal that would be as good as exercising just after it - maybe?

It doesn't matter so much. The trainer will advise leave it for two hours because of the nature of the exercise whereas that typical paper refers only to mild exercise. The enzyme production is more or less immediate but it reaches maxium effect after 12 hours. Moreover, the effect is cumulatative. From other studies I have read, more to do with insulin sensitivity that cholesterol, burning 1200 - 1500 kcals worth in a week through resistance exercise is best. After that it's a law of diminishing returns. So, I try to do 3 ten min sessions a day burning about 75 cals per session. That regime and a diet where I am sort of careful with fats but I do eat some carbs if they are low GI, seems to work for me.

I know some people here like to go for the very low carb high fat approach. I did that sort of thing 30 years ago when it was called a zero carb or protein only diet. You could only do it for 3 sessions of ten days. It did work and was good for weight loss but I was young and fit and could return to a normal diet. I have to find something now which will work for the rest of my life. Fortunately, I like these wholegrain products and they work for me. I don't know what I'd do if they didn't.

 

[Andy12345]

sorry forgive my ignorance, i take atorvastatins are you saying i shouldnt? i know your not a doctor im just asking your opinion, i seem to be getting this impression more and more, if i am to stop taking them do i tell the doc (who is giving me test strips) or pretend im still taking them?

 

[stuffedolive]

Andy

I was on Simvastatin and they didn't agree with me even in small doses. So negative was the effect (I still haven't recovered the lost strength and fitness I had) and so little do I now trust the medical 'industry' in respect of this, that I personally will not give statins another chance. The main problem was that the docs did not do the necessary testing to see how I was going. Statins are not a panacea, they do give some people debilitating illnesses, which come on slowly and are hard to spot until the damage is done. The medical profession should realise that they have a duty to monitor patients after prescribing them so they can catch any negative side-effect as soon as possible. This didn't happen in my case, but I was lucky because I constantly monitor my performances and I could see them dropping off a cliff and requested testing, albeit having been on them for nearly a year.

That is my experience and it may not apply to others. There are different sorts of statins and they affect different people in different ways. My advice it to take them but have the appropriate tests early to check for side effects.

 

[Andy12345]

Thankyou, i havent had any tests whatsoever so i will call my surgery right now.

 

[Andy12345]

ok got appt on the 17th , thanks for the advice, can i push my luck and ask if my hba1c test is done 2 weeks earlier than the 3 months would that not pick up on my being 25. as it was before diag therefore giving me a higher result than it would be after, or would it probly not make alot of difference? its a whole month later if i cancel and im desperate to find out how it is

 

[))Denise((]

I did some reading on statins as they took my cholesterol down from 5.4 to 3.0. I wasn't happy about being that low as I was also Vitamin D deficient at that time. Cholesterol is needed to transport Vitamin D around the body, so it is not something I need less of. Ok, most of you on this thread are men, but there is no proven evidence that they do women any good.

I just stopped taking them in April 2012 and just didn't re-order them. When my annual review came round earlier this year my cholesterol had gone up to 5.2. I am happy with it there. I told my GP that I wasn't going to take them. He said it was my choice, but his advice was to take them. I said I wouldn't, so he took them off my repeat prescription.

I'm not afraid of fat in foods, but prefer butter and not some chemically altered substance. Since I don't eat bread, this cuts down the amount of fat I eat anyway

 

[Ambersilva]

....there is no proven evidence that they do women any good.

That is my GP's opinion. He accessed an online calculator to illustrate my risk of dying from CVD in the next ten years. The Diabetic Clinic and Registrar have different ideas though. On my next appointment I shall direct them towards The Framingham Study.

Here is a link to a simple Risk caculator. http://cvrisk.mvm.ed.ac.uk/calculator/calc.asp There are other more complicated calculators.

 

[noblehead]

sorry forgive my ignorance, i take atorvastatins are you saying i shouldnt? i know your not a doctor im just asking your opinion, i seem to be getting this impression more and more, if i am to stop taking them do i tell the doc (who is giving me test strips) or pretend im still taking them?

Unless you have a reason to stop your Artovastatin I wouldn't stop taking them Andy, you have to remember that what you read on the forum is only people's opinions and no more, no one on the forum is medically qualified and you should not stop taking any meds without first discussing it with your gp.

 

[SamJB]

Good post noblehead. As as result of being on LCHF I'm on statins. I've read a few books and scientific articles and I'm sitting on the fence with the "cholesterol" and CVD link. I don't suffer any adverse effects from taking statins, so it's better to be safe than sorry.

What is completely proven though is that having a high hba1c carries a much higher risk of CVD than any "cholesterol" reading you could get.

 

[mpe]

I did some reading on statins as they took my cholesterol down from 5.4 to 3.0. I wasn't happy about being that low as I was also Vitamin D deficient at that time. Cholesterol is needed to transport Vitamin D around the body, so it is not something I need less of.

Sounds like you are confusing cholesterol with lipoproteins. This, unfortunatly, appears to be fairly common.
Lipoproteins are small capsules which enable compounds which are non water soluble to be carried in blood. One of these is cholesterol. Others include fats and fat soluble vitamins.
Lipoproteins are generally divided up into chylomicrons, VLDL, IDL, LDL & HDL.

 

[SamJB]

Sounds like you are confusing cholesterol with lipoproteins

As is the whole of the NHS!

 

[wd6ecc]

look up saturated fats are good for you on google and don't worry about choresterol

 

[LittleGreyCat]

Symvastatin made me a zombie (cool! - if I gave you the material would you make me one???)
Pravastatin made me grumpy and hard to get on with.

On that basis I'll stay off statins because although my total cholesterol is high the ratios are O.K.
My blood pressure is fine.
So I would rather live a relatively normal life with a possibly increased risk of CVD at some point than suffer the side effects now.

 

[jack412]

cholesterol, with LCHF, you may find your triglycerides fall, hdl rises and ldl, some rise, some fall
also they estimate LDL volume, If 2.5mm of large fluffy and 5mm of small dense can have the same number of particles, where the actual number of particles seems more valid