Low fat versus low carb

[Squire Fulwood]

I like the sense of it but how come xenical/orilstat tablets help people lose weight?
I know it rejects a third of the dietary fat from being absorbed by the body.
If fat alone isn't contributory to weight gain how come this tablet alone's mechanism reduces weight?

I don't want to knock anyone's remedy but there are so many claims made for so many pills and preparations that I couldn't begin to explain how/if any of them work.

 

[kokhongw]

Besides what to eat (low carb, low fat etc)...there is also the option of when to eat, and how often to eat.

Dr Jason Fung's blog on various intervals of fasting may some additional perspective.
https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/

There's quite a range of options to consider...

 

[Pinkorchid]

Low carb and low fat is making me happy, especially when I get on the scales and weigh less.
I don't know for how long but it would last as long as I eat that way, just the same as lchf would but without the palpatations, for me.
Mind u I've had diabetes for decades not a few months or years.
My sugars were better at first on lchf but once I added more fat they became high again.
Low carb diet definitely works, that is for sure. But adding fat, didn't for me. I must be wired differently.
Low fat definitely helps me loose weight on top of less carbs. Neither works with less only by themselves. It has tobe low carb and low fat for me.
I wish I shed the weight many have on lchf but I never lost once I added the fat element or increased it.

.Most here say you have to eat more fat to make up for the lower carbs but higher fat as you have found out it does not suit everyone.. I have never been a high fat eater even before diabetes my way of eating had always been low/moderate fat and have always been slim all my life I am 78 and now my doctor says I am a bit underweight but I just can't put any weight on When I tried.. against my better judgment I might add.. eating more saturated fats my cholesterol shot up I did not put on any weight and I did not enjoy eating the higher fat stuff anyway so I went back to my low/moderate fats I mostly eat poultry and fish and I usually have lower fat dairy ..not all of it has high sugar... and my good fats mostly come from olive oil, coconut oil some nuts and lots of avocados. I am not a believer that our bodies need saturated fats to be healthy vegetarians and vegans have proved that

 

[lindisfel]

Hi Pinkorchid, It sounds to me, you are on a low carb good fats diet similar to my own! You can't just get your calories from protein it will damage your kidneys!
Then again we are pretty special both of us being pre-war! Derek

.Most here say you have to eat more fat to make up for the lower carbs but higher fat as you have found out it does not suit everyone.. I have never been a high fat eater even before diabetes my way of eating had always been low/moderate fat and have always been slim all my life I am 78 and now my doctor says I am a bit underweight but I just can't put any weight on When I tried.. against my better judgment I might add.. eating more saturated fats my cholesterol shot up I did not put on any weight and I did not enjoy eating the higher fat stuff anyway so I went back to my low/moderate fats I mostly eat poultry and fish and I usually have lower fat dairy ..not all of it has high sugar... and my good fats mostly come from olive oil, coconut oil some nuts and lots of avocados. I am not a believer that our bodies need saturated fats to be healthy vegetarians and vegans have proved that

 

[wolfie11969]

Hi Wolfie,
I don't think the two are easily combined. You need plenty of good fats and the right amount of protein on a low carb diet unless you intend to have a Newcastle diet for a time. The weight should drop off you with low carb good fats and one seldom feels hungry. Additionally your BP will come down, particularly if you are salt sensitive and you cut out bread and poor quality salt loaded pies etc. regards Derek

Ty. I wasnt sure if you could combine both hence the question.

I will have a look at the Newcastle diet to see if it would work for me. I am currently looking into reducing the carbs in my diet to see if that has any impact on my weight. I dont really have any problems withmy bs levels if I eat a moderate portion of carbs, my bs levels rise if I have complex carbs like cake

I hope my blood pressure does come down as with the intercranial hypertension it isnt good for it to be as high as it is. As for salt I take a medication called lithium which is salt based so I have to watch what salt I have in my diet too.

Never been too keen on pies , unless I make one myself and then I can watch what goes into it

Ty for your reply

 

[wolfie11969]

According to Dr. Briffa you can't lose weight easily without eating fat. Fat provokes the hormone Leptin which has the ability to remove triglycerides from the fat cells. People who think that eating fat makes them fat are out of date.

Hi ty for the heads up on the fat business. I dont have problems with the other part of my cholestrol but I do have a higher reading of triglycerides which the doctor seems to attribute to the fact I like a glass of wine. I know you need some fat but are you suggesting that I abandon a low fat diet and eat fats sensibly? What would you exchange it for? The fats I have in my diet are vegetable oil for cooking and a low fat butter tasting margarine

Thankyou for your reply

 

[wolfie11969]

What have your blood glucose levels been like on a daily basis, on WeightWatchers?

If I were you, I would prioritise blood glucose control over weight loss, and for me, that requires low carbing. Once I was comfortable with my blood glucose, I would then turn to weight loss, but many people find that weight reduces without effort when low carbing. Of course, it has to be low enough for the individual, and sometimes that is pretty low. Home blood glucose testing is key in determining personal carb tolerances.

In my opinion, the health benefits of tight glucose control, reduced insulin release, reduced insulin resistance, and improved cholesterol ratios (via low carb) far outweighs the potential benefits of shaving a few points off the BMI (via low calorie)

Hiya

I wasnt told to check my bg levels by my GP. But I do have a meter and have found that my bg levels are worse if I eat complex carbohydrates like cake and also if I happen to eat some sweets, chocolate or a glass of wine. I have been following WW for many years on and off and have always had problems within my diabetes of sweet stuff rather than potatoes, bread etc

I will be looking at the cookbooks for a low carb diet and hopefully hubby will benefit from it too.

Thankyou for your reply

 

[wolfie11969]

Have you researched the Newcastle diet? There is plenty about it on these forums if you do a search. It seems to have had good weight loss success and has also resulted in very much improved blood glucose levels and even remission of T2. Briefly it is an 8 week plan consuming 800 calories from carefully controlled meal replacements and one meal a day of mainly vegetables.

Other than that, only low carb will help with blood glucose levels, and as mentioned before, low carb doesn't sit well with low fat.
I believe it is more important to control the blood glucose levels with low carb and look on the weight loss as a bonus. For the majority of people, low carb with higher fats will result in lower blood glucose levels and weight loss.

Hiya

I will be looking at the Newcastle diet, I'm a bit sceptical about meal replacements tho and what they consist of. I cant for example stomach anything that is like a shake (my body just refuses it) or thick and gloopy. I do, however, like the idea of a meal that is mainly vegetables. I will go look at it though incase I have misconstrued what you have said

Thankyou for your reply

 

[wolfie11969]

My experience is that I followed Eat Well plan and low-fat, low calorie regimes and I failed, miserably so. So bad that I was diagnosed as T2 in October.
LCHF diet has enabled me to reduce my weight by 36Kg and HbA1c by 66% in six months. My GP has withdrawn my drugs and tells me I am fully in remission.
Try both is my recommendation (not at same time of course) and see what works best for you.

I think the Weight Watchers plan gives you scope to say you are diabetic. I did consider Slimming World as they limit the carbs in your diet but there is no portion control. I'm a pig and will eat and eat if I'm told I can so decided I needed something more structured.

I'm impressed by your stats ie 36 kg weight loss and your HBA1C has reduced so much. Even better your off the drugs. I will definately be looking at the LCHF suggestions

Thankyou for your reply

 

[wolfie11969]

I did low fat for many years because I thought that was healthy. I gradually got fatter. Now I follow LCHF I am gradually losing weight and my BGs are under control.

I have found with low fat that I lose one week and gain the next, then lose a big amount, then gain etc etc. I follow the portion controls but obviously something else is wrong. I think I may look at using the low fat diet but reducing any carbs I have in my diet to see if that helps speed up the weight loss. And also this time of following any diet plan I have support in the form of a friend so maybe she will keep me on the straight and narrow.

Thankyou for replying

 

[wolfie11969]

If you want to try a VLCD and not use the Newcastle Diet format have a look at the 8 week blood sugar diet by Dr Michael Mosley, it follows a similar 800 calorie format, but uses "real" food, and you will be surprised at just how much you can eat if you can eat if you restrict the carbs, my one word of advise if you choose to try this route is to plan all your meals in advance

Oh Ok I will go and have a look at this plan you suggest. It could work better for me in that I will still be eating proper food as opposed to meal replacement. I'm the type of person that has to eat food rather than drink it or I psychologically dont feel full (something that is being dealt with via the lipid clinic)

And I do tend to plan in advance apart from when the weather takes a turn either way and I'm struggling with soup on a hot day or salad on a cold day hee hee

thankyou for your reply

 

[lindisfel]

The Newcastle diet is a special diet for I think eight weeks, it cannot be sustained long term it was designed by Prof Taylor to reverse diabetes. The weight would drop off you because it is a near starvation diet. LC good fats is sustainable for life. D.

 

[wolfie11969]

From personal experience no contest - low carb, moderate fat with exercise.

I know I have to improve on my exercise. Thing is back in 2009 and 2010 I actually lost all my extra weight by eating sensibly and doing basic walking. Then my hubby got ill and I was left to my own devices for 2 months so I gradually put it all back on. I my defence I have bought a treadmill as I feel I'm too 'big' to walk the streets so I will be using that in the bedroom once I move things around for it. I just need motivation

thankyou for your reply

 

[wolfie11969]

A lifetime of low calorie, low fat diets saw me getting fatter, developing fatty liver disease and diabetes.
Totally turned around with LCHF and I feel great!

This is what I need. People who have tried both and saw better results with one or the other. It seems a lot of people advocate LCHF over LF so I will be giving it a go step by step. I think its going to be hard for me because I love bread and potatoes. I can eat a loaf of crusty bread with low fat marg all day every day (Obviously I dont lol)

I'd be interested in what you have lost and over what period of time

thankyou for replying

 

[wolfie11969]

Hello, I too have intercranial hypertension and had a shunt fitted over 10 years ago, have tried loads of weird and wonderful diets including low fat and following nhs guidelines.
Diagnosed type2 Feb 2017, went Lchf. In a 3 month period have reduced hba1c down to non diabetic levels, reduced cholesterol down form 4.7 to 3.7, lost a stone and a half in weight.

However you must do what is right for you, as others have said, try both and see which suits (although not at the same time)

I guess I stuck with weight watchers cus it had been productive for me prior to being diabetic. I'm amazed at your results. I dont expect miracles but I would like to think the weight gain I have can be reversed.

thanks for replying

 

[Robkww]

I know I have to improve on my exercise. Thing is back in 2009 and 2010 I actually lost all my extra weight by eating sensibly and doing basic walking. Then my hubby got ill and I was left to my own devices for 2 months so I gradually put it all back on. I my defence I have bought a treadmill as I feel I'm too 'big' to walk the streets so I will be using that in the bedroom once I move things around for it. I just need motivation

thankyou for your reply

No problem @wolfie11969 and I wish you all the best. For interest, although I exercise in various ways, walking seems to work best for me - start off steady and build up the pace as things improve.

 

[Squire Fulwood]

Hi ty for the heads up on the fat business. I dont have problems with the other part of my cholestrol but I do have a higher reading of triglycerides which the doctor seems to attribute to the fact I like a glass of wine. I know you need some fat but are you suggesting that I abandon a low fat diet and eat fats sensibly? What would you exchange it for? The fats I have in my diet are vegetable oil for cooking and a low fat butter tasting margarine

Thankyou for your reply

There have been a couple of court cases (Fettke, Noakes and of course Elliot) to do with giving dietary advice when not qualified to do so, therefore I will tell you what I do. I do not eat margarine no matter what it tastes like. I have full grass fed butter but since I can't eat bread I use it to lower the GI of those nice little new potatoes. I have full fat milk but not on cereals which are high carb. I eat berries sometimes but only with extra thick double cream (that's the one you can stand the spoon up in).

I have a slightly raised cholesterol and as soon as someone can show me evidence that this is harmful I will start to worry about it. HINT: Some of the very best brains have looked for this evidence and have yet to come up with credible evidence. I recommend The Great Cholesterol Con by Dr. Malcolm Kendrick.

I also drink wine and I blame it for everything also.

 

[Squire Fulwood]

I'm the type of person that has to eat food rather than drink it or I psychologically dont feel full (something that is being dealt with via the lipid clinic)

There is a satiety switch in the brain that tells you when you are full. This is operated by the hormone released when you eat fat. The signals to this switch are interfered with when you eat too many carbs so you stay hungry. I don't know why we evolved this way but I suppose if the eating was slim and you were reduced to eating leaves and roots then it would be counter productive to stop eating. The carbs in the roots and some stems also get laid down as fat for later.

 

[wolfie11969]

Low carb and low fat is making me happy, especially when I get on the scales and weigh less.
I don't know for how long but it would last as long as I eat that way, just the same as lchf would but without the palpatations, for me.
Mind u I've had diabetes for decades not a few months or years.
My sugars were better at first on lchf but once I added more fat they became high again.
Low carb diet definitely works, that is for sure. But adding fat, didn't for me. I must be wired differently.
Low fat definitely helps me loose weight on top of less carbs. Neither works with less only by themselves. It has tobe low carb and low fat for me.
I wish I shed the weight many have on lchf but I never lost once I added the fat element or increased it.

I've noticed from your info at the bottom that you have a disc disorder. Hubby has same thing with bulging discs and permanent sciatica - I wanted to say I know how bad it can be as I see hubby go through it every day. He needs an op but due to having heart surgery and being on permanent warfarin they cant operate on the spine. It must make it very difficult for you to exercise or even be mobile.

 

[Bluetit1802]

I would like to add a comment about wine. Red wine (in moderation - one glass a day) is exceptionally good for you. It is good for the heart because of the resveratrol and proanthocyanidins (healthy antioxidants) it contains. It is also known to help increase HDL (the good cholesterol) and only adversely affects triglycerides in some people if they over consume. Far from increasing blood sugar levels, red wine helps to lower them when drunk with a meal.

Having said that there are a lot of calories in a glass, so care needs to be taken when trying to lose weight.

My own experience is that on low carb with higher fat I lost a third of my body weight in about 9 months and brought my BS levels down. That was during 2014 and now in 2017 I am still stable with a BMI of 21 and normal glucose levels. My cholesterol breakdown also improved. My triglycerides are 0.6. My HDL is 2.51. It worked for me. I have never had any medication and have only moderate exercise.