Most people with type 2 diabetes will also eventually need to use insulin.

[Winnie53]

I keep reading this on various medical forms. I am 28 and it appears I am likely to be on Insulin by the age of 45 which is extremely sad for me.

Can someone tell me though, I know people who are on Type 1 who struggle to keep their blood levels right even with Insulin so why is it painted that people with Type 2 dont experience the same problems?

Does anyone else have diabetes around my age - I feel so hopeless perhaps I can make some new friends here.

@sheepie123 Your topic title is excellent. Every time I see it, it invokes a reaction from me.

You are not alone.

My diabetes journey began with hypoglycemia 35 years ago, and continued with gestational diabetes 30 years ago, pre-diabetes 15 years ago, and type 2 diabetes 12 years ago, yet I have no complications, though I likely have heart disease which, like diabetes can also be reversed if you have the right bag of tricks and instruction manual.

I don't know if this is true or not, but Tom O'Bryan, D.C. says that every cell in the body is replaced every 7 years, some within days. Imagine the power of that!

For me that means if I take care of my body by eating healthy, organic, nutrient dense, whole foods, engage in regular physical activity, surround myself with healthy loving people, manage stress, and get adequate sleep, I likely will enjoy improving health over the next 5 years - (I've just begun my third year of living a healthy lifestyle).

As Brunneria said, there are no guarantees, but we can monitor our progress, through body measurements, strength, over all feelings of wellness, daily checks of glucose levels, and have lab tests done each year to measure progress. You can too.

Interestingly, the lines between type 1 and type 2 diabetes have become blurred. This lively article explains how...

Diabetes Types - Blurring the Lines by Low Carb RN (CDE)
https://lowcarbrn.wordpress.com/2017/04/22/diabetes-types-blurring-the-lines/

The message is simple, by eating healthy and reducing carbohydrate load, we reduce insulin and glucose levels and insulin resistance.

And to her message, I'll add, if I have a high glucose level - (like I did last night from splitting a slice of peanut butter pie with my husband after a healthy dinner of salad, quiche, and a few bites of cantaloupe) - if I wait an hour and a half, I can knock a 207 mg/dl down to 110 mg/dl by walking one mile briskly (though it took a year or so of walking to build up to that ability). Now I'm not recommending that you eat peanut butter pie, which I haven't had in more than 2 years, but if on occasion I choose to treat myself, I have options. And you do too.

 

[ickihun]

Hey, welcome to the forums. i'm a similar age - 31 - and just got diagnosed a few weeks ago. I always thought it was a progressive condition and my GP also said so, but he also told me this was actually a great time to be diagnosed because there is so much more being discovered about the disease and also a plethora of new drugs becoming available very quickly. He said it would be very unlikely I'd ever end up having to take insulin because of this.

I totally agree.
I got burn out and tablets stopped working for me, hence Insulin therapy. Also hopping onto insulin for pregnancies and planning pregnancies has confused my liver. I think.

 

[ickihun]

@Winnie53 I like the thought heart disease can be reversed too.
I've reversed type2 before but don't know if I've reversed heart disease before too. Does it happen concurrently?

 

[Winnie53]

Thank you for this. I have a question though: According to my DSN, I dont have a fatty liver. So how could my insulin resistance be happening? I am confused again.

I love this question! And after two years of wondering myself - (after eating low carb for 2 years, I can still hit a 200 mg/dl insulin level if I eat anything with sugar in it) - I think I found part of the answer.

The brain is playing a role.

Not sure if it answers your question as you asked it, but it does answer the question as to why it's taking so long to get my fasting blood glucose level down. A year and a half ago it was 125 mg/dl, now it's 110 mg/dl. That's still a long way from a normal fasting glucose level of 83 mg/dl but I'm working on it!

The presentation below is by a diabetes researcher Michael Schwarts, M.D. at the University of Washington in Seattle, Washington. It's a one-hour long, somewhat difficult to follow lecture. I have to watch it in full screen, pause the video, read the slides, then go back an listen to what he says about each slide one or more times, but they figured out that the brain is regulating the fasting glucose level.

Pay attention to his discussion of injecting Fibroblast Growth Factor 1 (FGF1) into diabetic rats brains and what happens...

Brain control of blood sugar and the future of diabetes treatment
https://medicine.uw.edu/grand-rounds/brain-control-blood-sugar-and-future-diabetes-treatment

This introduction beginning at minute 3:55 sets the stage for the presentation...

"Let me talk a little bit about the basic understanding of glucose homeostasis that you all learned in medical school just to set the stage.

We know that nutrients come into the GI tract. They stimulate insulin secretion from the pancreas. That nutrient stimulation can be augmented by endocrine peptides that are released from the GI tract. Insulin lowers the blood sugar both by promoting glucose uptake in tissues like skeletal muscles but also by inhibiting glucose production primarily by the liver which of course is where your glucose comes from in your blood stream when you're not eating.

We know that type 2 diabetes there are a number of feedbacks in the system.

But what if they become more insulin resistant so the ability of the insulin to promote glucose uptake and inhibit glucose production in the liver is diminished?

And in order to deal with that you need to make more insulin and in type 2 diabetes what happens is you don't make enough insulin and so you have a combination of insulin resistance and the progressive islet failure that results in sustained hyperglycemia."

But there's more to this story than the liver...

 

[Winnie53]

@Winnie53 I like the thought heart disease can be reversed too.
I've reversed type2 before but don't know if I've reversed heart disease before too. Does it happen concurrently?

I believe it can happen concurrently. I'm reading cardiologist Jack Wolfson, D.O.'s book, The Paleo Cardiologist, right now. Both he and cardiologist Joel Kahn, M.D. argue that dairy needs to come out of the diet. Sigh... I love dairy.

Not sure yet, but am now leaning toward a Paleo style low carb diet which means adding in season fruit back into the diet, but eliminating or greatly limiting grains, dairy, legumes (including peanuts), and sugar. I love peanut butter too.

Will get back to you on this in a year or two with my results.

 

[Brunneria]

I dont have a fatty liver.

Neither do I.

I think of this every time someone says that weight loss WILL reverse T2.

In my case I have insulin resistance for several reasons, including PCOS, a prolactinoma, meds for the prolactinoma, family history (all slim, age related) and being overweight.

I don't for a moment imagine that losing weight will magically reverse my T2, although i believe it would be good for my overall health.

 

[Prem51]

I keep reading this on various medical forms. I am 28 and it appears I am likely to be on Insulin by the age of 45 which is extremely sad for me.

Hi @sheepie123 and welcome to the forum. I'm an OAP and a lot older than you, but I wasn't just sad to be diagnosed and told T2 was progressive and eventually be injecting insulin, I was terrified.
I have a severe injection phobia and couldn't see me injecting myself, whatever the consequences. But I found this forum and read that progression wasn't inevitable. I was sceptical at first, thinking it was another crazy bunch of online faddy loonies.
But I thought I'd give it a try,, after all what did I have to lose? Anyway 18 months later far from getting progressively worse, I have lost over 30 lbs, my blood sugar levels are down to non-diabetic levels, and I feel better than I have done for years.

Don't be sad. You can control this condition. You will find a lot of friends on here who will give you good advice and support.

 

[lowedb]

Well if it is progressive, someones got some explaining to do. I was diagnosed in December and now I know what the symptoms are I had some of them. 5 months on, my A1c is technically prediabetic, though some of that will be down to medication. You can see my numbers in my signature. Yes, the first GP and the DN both told me it was progressive, but a second GP suggested low carb, and the results tell me what I believe now. It might not work for everyone but I'm sure mine isn't progressive right now!

 

[ickihun]

Neither do I.

I think of this every time someone says that weight loss WILL reverse T2.

In my case I have insulin resistance for several reasons, including PCOS, a prolactinoma, meds for the prolactinoma, family history (all slim, age related) and being overweight.

I don't for a moment imagine that losing weight will magically reverse my T2, although i believe it would be good for my overall health.

I believe there are 2 kinds of fat cells. Those created by carbs mixed with fats and those made by carbs mixed with fat and sugar.
One of those fat cells are never emptied by exercise and other fat cells are.
Once the wrong fat cell made it can only be removed by surgery. Liposuction and the likes.
We can diet and restrict fat, carbs etc til the coes come home but won't die, even when empty.
Until a deficit of wrong fat cells will me and you reverse our diabetes hun. I'm convinced I've done it before but I had a lot less wrong fat cells then.

 

[ickihun]

I'm not expecting to reverse my type2 by bariatric surgery. Just lose weight and be less insulin resistant.

 

[fullenglish22]

I'm in my mid-50's. I've been on a low carb diet that includes animal and plant sources of protein and fat, and a variety of vegetables and leafy greens with all meals for 2 years and have chosen to not take medication. No progression. In fact, I'm healthier now than when I was in my 20's.

What's worked best for me in addition to eating a healthy diet is monitoring glucose levels to stay on track and walking.

 

[Indy51]

Thank you for this. I have a question though: According to my DSN, I dont have a fatty liver. So how could my insulin resistance be happening? I am confused again.

Did you ever have an abdominal ultrasound or other imaging? If not, how can your DSN be sure?

It's also possible to have a fatty pancreas and I believe the pancreatic fat takes longer to lose than liver fat which seems to clear quite quickly on either a calorie restricted and/or a low carb diet.

I know I had both because I had an ultrsound around the same time as I was diagnosed. Don't know what my current status is as I've had no reason to have a follow up ultrasound.

 

[serenity648]

Did you ever have an abdominal ultrasound or other imaging? If not, how can your DSN be sure?

It's also possible to have a fatty pancreas and I believe the pancreatic fat takes longer to lose than liver fat which seems to clear quite quickly on either a calorie restricted and/or a low carb diet.

I know I had both because I had an ultrsound around the same time as I was diagnosed. Don't know what my current status is as I've had no reason to have a follow up ultrasound.

bloo

Did you ever have an abdominal ultrasound or other imaging? If not, how can your DSN be sure?

It's also possible to have a fatty pancreas and I believe the pancreatic fat takes longer to lose than liver fat which seems to clear quite quickly on either a calorie restricted and/or a low carb diet.

I know I had both because I had an ultrsound around the same time as I was diagnosed. Don't know what my current status is as I've had no reason to have a follow up ultrasound.

I wondered about this, how she knew. She said that the blood test I had done at my last check up - the kidney, and liver function test, showed no problem. If I had a fatty liver, she said, my liver function would have been impaired. Thats the only test on offer to me on the NHS

 

[Indy51]

bloo


I wondered about this, how she knew. She said that the blood test I had done at my last check up - the kidney, and liver function test, showed no problem. If I had a fatty liver, she said, my liver function would have been impaired. Thats the only test on offer to me on the NHS

I also had elevated ALT and GGT on my liver function tests around the same time as the ultrasound. Those levels have been fine for quite a while now. Unless you have tests done at the time you were diagnosed, all you're looking at is your current situation. If you've been dieting/low carbing for a while, your liver function has probably returned to normal.

But I think IR is more complex than just liver/pancreas fat. Dysfunction in fat cells can also cause it.

 

[Winnie53]

@serenity I was surprised to learn that only 25% in the US have fatty liver. Surprising because last time I checked, 47% have diabetes or pre-diabetes.

 

[Indy51]

@serenity I was surprised to learn that only 25% in the US have fatty liver. Surprising because last time I checked, 47% have diabetes or pre-diabetes.

What method are they using to establish fatty liver? I was told by a doctor that it takes quite a lot of liver damage before anything shows up on the liver function panel, but the liver is a very forgiving organ - give it what it needs and it will regenerate function quite rapidly. Judging by Prof Taylor's work, the only true way of assessing liver/pancreas fat is by imaging of some kind. They used quite complex MRI to track the liver and pancreatic fat of the participants in the Newcastle trials.

 

[Winnie53]

@Indy51, don't know. Here's a link to the article... https://blogs.scientificamerican.co...sease-america-s-greatest-health-risk-of-2015/

I was thinking much the same. You can be well on your way to developing fatty liver, just not meet the diagnostic threshold...yet. Thankfully, the low carb diet seems to make everything better.

 

[ickihun]

I also had elevated ALT and GGT on my liver function tests around the same time as the ultrasound. Those levels have been fine for quite a while now. Unless you have tests done at the time you were diagnosed, all you're looking at is your current situation. If you've been dieting/low carbing for a while, your liver function has probably returned to normal.

But I think IR is more complex than just liver/pancreas fat. Dysfunction in fat cells can also cause it.

Definitely to do with fat cells rather than just fat clogging up organs. (IR). @serenity648 .
I believe it how the fat cell is made determines whether an IR one. I also believe that only newly diagnosed diabetics who have a lower percentage of wrong/bad fat cells or old diabetics who have similiar to liposuction can reverse their diabetes when IR is involved.
The more wrong/bad fat cells the higher the IR.
Now exercise and weight loss can improve IR. Why? Because those bad cells get emptied but once refilled IR gets worse again.
Evidence prove that once fat cells have no where else to fit your skin stretches to accomodate more room. Hence we get fatter.
Once a fat cell is created it never dies just gets emptied, incase of need at a later date. (Extreme fasting or famine)
No evidence that too many empty fat cells in body any harm. Yet!
I believe those badly made fat cells, full or empty is what IR is all about.
My IR was formed in the womb. Diabetic symptoms at 5-6yr old. Not diet caused. Bad diet can exacerbate Insulin Resistance. And lack of exercise and especially making the wrong kind of fat cells!
We are a product of what we eat or not nuture!

 

[ickihun]

I'll as far to say feeding a flu may not be as good as an idea as we thought! Feeding with heavy carbs/sugar and fat can cause super fat cells.
I might argue early baby births interfer with how we make our fat cells too. The mechanics hadnt enough practice making healthy fat cells from healthy mum. (Or unhealthy mum in some cases).
Eating healthy in pregnancy doesn't go back far enough for my liking either.
We have produced an army of IR fat cells in our new generations without realising it.
Evolution?
The human body will always evolve. Due to environmental changes.
Diabetes is one of those changes. We can slow down but inevidently WILL happen.
Its how we understand, treat and protect our body which will make the difference!

 

[Bluetit1802]

What method are they using to establish fatty liver? I was told by a doctor that it takes quite a lot of liver damage before anything shows up on the liver function panel, but the liver is a very forgiving organ - give it what it needs and it will regenerate function quite rapidly. Judging by Prof Taylor's work, the only true way of assessing liver/pancreas fat is by imaging of some kind. They used quite complex MRI to track the liver and pancreatic fat of the participants in the Newcastle trials.

I have my medical records back to January 2006. I was diagnosed January 2014. Out of 18 liver function tests since 2006 my ALT has never been higher than 33 and has been as low as 16, currently 24. (normal range 3 to 53). My GGT was 26 on diagnosis and is now 14 (normal range 0 to 65). This is what I have based my assumption on that I don't have a fatty liver and never have had, at least since 2006. No-one has actually told me anything and I haven't had any imaging. However, on diagnosis I did carry a lot of weight round my middle. That has all gone now thanks to low carb. So I have no idea if I did have or do have a fatty liver, but my liver function markers say not.