Newcastle diet

[Chook]

I understand that but you need to do it safely. It might be an idea to have a word with your GP to see it he thinks it's appropriate. The protocol for the Newcastle Diet is here: http://www.directclinicaltrial.org.uk/protocol/DiRECTProtocol.pdf

 

[Alexandra100]

The essential theory in the Newcastle diet is that when one lose the fat ( that shouldn't be there ) in the pancreas and liver ; Then one would stop being diabetic Maybe there is more going on in the NewCasttle diet than that , But essential it would mean that when a "slim-fat" person loses the little fat around intestines pancreas and liver the person would stop being diabetic , and that could be 3 kg or 20 kg or 40kg one would need to loose before that happens But most likely a very fat person would need to lose a lot more than a very lean person . But What is also good to remember maybe not all will be able to reverse diabetes there could be maybe a range of reasons to why People do become diabetic type 2 maybe other than having too much fat in ones pancreas

Thanks, Freema, very judicious! Yes, I am not pinning too much hope on the results from losing fat, but I think a gentle attempt might be worth trying. It would have to be pounds rather than kilos lost, though, I don't want to disappear altogether.

 

[Alexandra100]

Hi. I can't see why you need to think about the ND with your BMI. Surely you just need to continue to keep the carbs under some control and have enough protein and fats to keep you feeling full. With that low level of BMI are you sure you are not T1 rather than T2 assuming you are slim? I would suggest to the GP that he/she gives you the two tests for T1 i.e. GAD and c-peptide; misdiagnosis is common.

Thanks Daibell, I'll certainly note the two tests you suggest and ask for them when I have my next blood tests in Jamuary 2018. I do wonder about T1, though at age 75 is this likely? I don't rate my chances of getting the tests before, unless I can produce some dramatic symptoms, as currently I am seen by my GPs pretty much as "worried well". They compare me to the majority of their patients of my age, who are neither skinny nor active, and wonder what the fuss is about.

 

[Alexandra100]

I wouldn't attempt to lose any weight if I had your BMI. Even if the ND works for you and you are no longer diabetic afterwards you could be harming your body in other ways by being far too thin. Being underweight is more damaging to overall health than being overweight. I agree with @Daibell 's comments.

Thanks, Zand, yes, that is a worry, but I do need to change something in my life to keep the diabetes at bay and I am already thin, eating healthily and doing lots of exercise.

 

[Alexandra100]

Above all my advise is to try to be gentle with whatever regime you consider. I did the Newcastle diet , my bmi was 24/25 and is now 19/20. Personally I found the diet brutal. Not the first few weeks which were lovely but then I got week and tried to push myself physically. Looking back this was a mistake . During this time I suffered a sports injury ( Inguinal Hernia) which required surgery and am just recovering from 6 months later. So in short be kind to yourself ...........

Thanks Orson, I hear you! especially as I am a runner. The last thing I need is to be sidelined from vigorous activity.

 

[Alexandra100]

Above all my advise is to try to be gentle with whatever regime you consider. I did the Newcastle diet , my bmi was 24/25 and is now 19/20. Personally I found the diet brutal. Not the first few weeks which were lovely but then I got week and tried to push myself physically. Looking back this was a mistake . During this time I suffered a sports injury ( Inguinal Hernia) which required surgery and am just recovering from 6 months later. So in short be kind to yourself ...........

Isn't your main aim to control blood glucose?
At the moment I am finding that I am eating just about the same diet as when controlling my weight decades ago - and my blood tests are in the normal range. I do need to lose weight and I am seeing a very gradual reduction, but I am pretty sure that the weightloss is not the reason for my results.

If you are eating the same diet and amount as decades ago, you may be eating too many calories, as sadly our need for calories goes down each year we live (unless we exdercise more and more) due to our slowing metabolisms.

 

[Alexandra100]

Hi @Alexandra100, if you have accepted part of the premise that excessive visceral fat potentially in and around your liver and pancreas is causing your diabetes, you could consider weight training.

This would increase your BMI and obviously add healthy weight, improve insulin resistance and also help achieve the removal of visceral fat.

If you go down this route, a useful tool would be a set of body composition scales (I recommend the Tanita brand which can be picked up from Argos for circa £35.00). The scales would provide a baseline which you can cross reference with your progress (fasting blood glucose, HbA1c and if possible fasting insulin).

Thanks Mbaker, very good suggestions except that I already do weight training several times a week at my gym, and I have been recording my body fat percentage for many years, precisely on the sort of Tanita scales you recommend. For many years I was stable at 22%, but now am fluctuating between 14 and 16%. Part of that low reading is due to fluid retention. However, yes, I am feeling inspired to be more regular and vigorous in my weight training, while at the same time having to be careful not to injure myself. I have been interested to find that body weight exercises are getting a bit easier, not because I am getting stronger but because I am getting lighter!

 

[Alexandra100]

What do we know about OP and his health issues - apart from that he's underweight?

I think it is quite dangerous to suggest or recommend than just anyone can go on the ND. We need to remember we are all different and while ND can be useful for rapid weightloss and a swift control over BG - there are groups of people that it isn't recommended for. Michael Mosley says in his BSD book that people shouldn't go on the diet if:

- They are under 18
- Their BMI is below 21
- They are recovering from surgery or are generally frail

Further, it should be discussed with their doctor before starting the diet if any of the following apply:

- They have a history of eating disorders
- They are on insulin or diabetic medication other than metformin - as they may need to plan how to reduce medication to avoid too fast a drop in blood sugar
- They are on blood pressure tablets - as they may have to reduce or come off them
- They have moderate or severe retinopathy - they should have an extra screening within six months of reducing or reversing the diabetes
- They are pregnant or breastfeeding
- They have a significant psychiatric disorder
- They are taking warfarin
- They have epilepsy
- They have a significant medical condition

Thanks, Chook, very interesting and helpful.

 

[Alexandra100]

An ultrasound scan (can be requested by a GP and does not cost the NHS a lot) will show if there is fat round the liver and pancreas. This is one of the best method we have at present to tell if there is fat in the liver or pancreas as the MNR scanner they used at Newcastle is not a normal hospital scanner.

If there is fat round the liver and pancreases is it likely to be of benefit loosing it regardless of BMI.

Unless someone has had Type2 for a very long time, not having fat round the liver and pancrease will make me question if the Type2 label is the correct label for the person......

The recommendation in Michael Mosley book about not doing the diet if the BMI is below 21 is because of the risk that someone has a different type of diabetes and have incorrectly been told they have Type2, but if the presence of fat can be confirmed and in good health I don't think a lower BMI is a 100% reasons for someone not to lose weight.

However "Intermittent Fasting" and/or LCHF (without leaving out the high fat) may be a better option for someone with a low BMI.

Resistance training would be a great regardless of the diet being used.

(Remember it seems that between 5% and 25% of people who are told they have Type2 have a different type of diabetes that does not respond to the Newcastle Diet. It will be interesting to see how this has affected the results that will be published at the end of this year.)

Thanks Ringi, I'd love a scan like this but don't hold out much hope unless I fork out the considerable charge privately.

 

[Alexandra100]

well there are very thin persons that have reversed their diabetes by doing the Newcasttle diet like this gentleman :
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...etes-just-11-days--going-starvation-diet.html

Thanks, Freema, I've read this but he wasn't anywhere near as skinny as me! He did in fact have some fat to lose, though not over-weight.

 

[Alexandra100]

I assume you have had liver function tests, if so check the results, as they can show if you have "Fatty Liver", doctors often don't tell people unless the result is very bad.

Thanks Ringi, very useful suggestion. I did have this test recently among many others and I'll make a pointy of ringing up to try and find put the exact result. If only we were given all these results instead of having to rely on what our GPs notice from them. In France when you have tests, the Dr gets one copy and you another. If only!!!

 

[Daibell]

Thanks Daibell, I'll certainly note the two tests you suggest and ask for them when I have my next blood tests in Jamuary 2018. I do wonder about T1, though at age 75 is this likely? I don't rate my chances of getting the tests before, unless I can produce some dramatic symptoms, as currently I am seen by my GPs pretty much as "worried well". They compare me to the majority of their patients of my age, who are neither skinny nor active, and wonder what the fuss is about.

Hi. The oldest person I've read about with late onset T1 was age 90! The main thing is to be aware of the possibility of T1 so that you can keep an eye on your blood sugar and take action if it starts to rise quite rapidly. It may be that with low-carb diet and possibly some meds you can keep BS within range.

 

[Alexandra100]

Hi. The oldest person I've read about with late onset T1 was age 90! The main thing is to be aware of the possibility of T1 so that you can keep an eye on your blood sugar and take action if it starts to rise quite rapidly. It may be that with low-carb diet and possibly some meds you can keep BS within range.

Thanks, Daibell & everyone - so much invaluable information!

 

[Mbaker]

Thanks Mbaker, very good suggestions except that I already do weight training several times a week at my gym, and I have been recording my body fat percentage for many years, precisely on the sort of Tanita scales you recommend. For many years I was stable at 22%, but now am fluctuating between 14 and 16%. Part of that low reading is due to fluid retention. However, yes, I am feeling inspired to be more regular and vigorous in my weight training, while at the same time having to be careful not to injure myself. I have been interested to find that body weight exercises are getting a bit easier, not because I am getting stronger but because I am getting lighter!

Great, I am at a similar body fat and between 7.5 and 8% visceral fat. Currently I am nursing a small strain in my left elbow tendon, by over doing a farmer's walk, so it is important to watch the heavier weights. I am not letting the strain prevent my march towards single digit body fat and I want to halve the remaining visceral fat; and vain I know fully expose a 6 pack. Anyway I have found qthe following is working really well for me, with dumbbells in hand, squat to stand bicep curl, shoulder press (arms down), front dumbbell lung with simultaneous opposite arm bicep curl (back to standing) and the same off of the other leg. I repeat this compound movement in the Tabata protocol and next morning have fasting figures between 3.9 and 4.3. In a few weeks I am going to add in a spiderman pushup burpee, which ought to reduce me to tears. You mày need to superset or go fewer heavier reps, whilst upping protein.

 

[pollensa]

The essential theory in the Newcastle diet is that when one lose the fat ( that shouldn't be there ) in the pancreas and liver ; Then one would stop being diabetic Maybe there is more going on in the NewCasttle diet than that , But essential it would mean that when a "slim-fat" person loses the little fat around intestines pancreas and liver the person would stop being diabetic , and that could be 3 kg or 20 kg or 40kg one would need to loose before that happens But most likely a very fat person would need to lose a lot more than a very lean person . But What is also good to remember maybe not all will be able to reverse diabetes there could be maybe a range of reasons to why People do become diabetic type maybe other than having too much fat in ones pancreas

Well said, I like this approach, especially "could be range of reasons to why people do become diabetic type other than too much fat in the pancreas........"??

Doubt area for example. Not overweight, athough 68 still surfing daily, exercise constantly, and organic healthy eating, raw foods and other, before been informed SUGARS HIGH NOT ABNORMAL, BUT HIGH NORMAL, I.E. Pre Diabetic take caution do low carbs, exercise more than now. This I have done. Lost 18 kilos and loving low carb meals continued with organic.

I started to wonder how and why sugars showed high normal rather than mid or low normal. I noticed 4 years ago, after a sudden infected ear I had blood pressure taken in emergency room surgery Mallorca, it showed 150/100 wow, way too high, considering I am normally 110/67 or 117/71 or 119/78 quite low actually, as normal should be 120/80 for a 35 year old...
Doc retested myself days later, I have WHITE COAT SYNDROM, heart goes crazy, I feel tense, perspire, doctors and white coats do just that, I was lower 140/85, but medicated with futuron. He said if you take these, you don't have to cut out salt
that seemed crazy, why cant I just stop eating salt or cut down, i.e. if I cook with it, don't put in on at the table for example, I took them for say one or two months and stopped, cut out salt. When I attended for another matter, the Doc tested blood pressure again, said 135/84 gave different pills INPANAMIDA, by this time he knows my daily testing, which is normal normal, and recognizes that its white coat syndrome situation. Stated, just in case it EVER GOES Back UP HIGHER, take the new pills. I took a few to see if any side effects, always do this, and as I thought, AND ASSUMED WRONGLY, anything over 120/80 was high, and I sposmadically now and then continued to take them maybe 2,4 a month for 1 year.

I put on weight around this time taking the new pill even though not daily. Did not think it could be connected. How wrong was I!!

The Day Doc prescribed metformin even though I was normal range i.e. 164mg/dl Random any time test, i.e. cut off level
UK200mg/dl, but in spain its 150mg/dl pre diabetes zone...he instructed I do not take any more Inpanamida if I was taking them as they were not compatible with Metformin, and he deleted off the computer on my file records.

Getting home I checked the side effects. HERE IT COMES....... WE SHOULD ALL READ THE SMALL PRINT TAKE A LESSON FROM THIS...

"INPANAMEDIA SIDE EFFECS CAN CAUSE HIGHER SUGARS OR WORSEN ANY EXISTING HIGH SUGARS"

I raised this to attention of my Doc stating could this have had any contribution to my higher than normal sugars, he said NO,
THE BLOOD PRESSURE PILLS ONLY MAKE SUGARS WORSE FOR THOSE WITH DIABETES OR ALREADY WITH HIGH SUGARS...

I SHOWED HIM THE OFFICIAL PRESCRIPTION INFORMATION SIDE EFFECTS, AND REPOINTED OUT,
IT SAYS IT CAN EITHER "cause" or/and worsen....

He just sat in silence, with instruction, best not to take them.

Thankfully I had only used them as and when, but it is my firm belief not being a doctor, that without doubt, these blood pressure pills contributed to my HIGH NORMAL SUGAR LEVELS, and reason I have been labelled pre diabetes.

You could be right in your thinking.......doubt prevails....??

Have a happy day from Hot Mallorca

 

[Freema]

Yes Pollensa@ I also Think that I maybe became diabetic from also an anti psychotic medication I had for my depressions , one of its sideeffects is that it can cause diabetes , and Then I have also been in a hospital drop for more than 6 month and even more times than that ; and hospitals drops are made of pthalates which are known for its hormon disturbance and are also thought to maybe be a contributer to diabetes ( and I guess a lot of other disturbanses in the body )