Newcastle diet.

[Tannith]

Last post for perhaps a couple of days as I have to go away on business.
May mean fasting on Tuesday if I cannot find anywhere to buy some semi-skimmed milk but that will be ok.

Lunch - had my meal - and I didn't hit 8.3. After 1 hour is was 7.7. After that hour we went for our normal sunday afternoon walk. The reason I am so pleased with lunch is because of timing (Sunday compresses meal times so I typically skip lunch) I took the second shake 10mins after the two hour of my breakfast shake. So about 42ish g's of carb within just 3 hours. It came down really well after the walk to 5.5. It was a good walk though (40mins).

Then this evening 6.1 after one hour 6.1 after second hour just sitting watching tv.
So a better day than Friday and Saturday but Sunday always has a lot of exercise in it so not typical.

Will let you know how it is all going Tuesday or Wednesday which will be the one week mark.
According to Prof T - I should get normal FBG but to be honest my FBG are rarely above 6, really rarely so I consider them to be elevated but not to bad. It is when I eat I have problems.

I am not expecting any results from my ND until I approach the 15% weight loss target. I don't think the process of the diet is as important as the end result because we have to eat peculiar things to meet the 800 cal requirement. (Or in my case 900 to1000 cal requirement because I am too chicken to try for 800.) At the rate I am losing weight I expect to have to do 18 weeks in total. I'm only approaching 7 now.

 

[Fleegle]

I am not expecting any results from my ND until I approach the 15% weight loss target. I don't think the process of the diet is as important as the end result because we have to eat peculiar things to meet the 800 cal requirement. (Or in my case 900 to1000 cal requirement because I am too chicken to try for 800.) At the rate I am losing weight I expect to have to do 18 weeks in total. I'm only approaching 7 now.

At the moment I am lucky to get 600 calories.
I am fine so far. I have loss way over 15%. In fact I think prof t says after 25kgs lost your chances of being receptive to the nd diet diminish. I am not too far away from that having lost 20kgs since diagnosis. I am hoping that I am now working my way through liver fat.

 

[ringi]

I expect you lost most of your liver fat a long time ago, its the fat in the beta cells that is hardest to get rid off.

I am thinking that most people on this forum are not seeing the great drops in BG that are normal on the ND in the first week, as they have already lost a lot of their liver fat.

 

[Peerless67]

I missed this thread have put it on my watch list now. Good luck Fleegle

 

[paulins]

Stir fry is great on ND. I used lots of different vegs and spices.
Curry.
Oven Roasted vegetables.
Soups.
Huge salads.
Carb content in Shake that Weight comparable to what was used in original ND study.

 

[Fleegle]

Week 2 - Day 8 over.
The good news is there are only 48 days left.

An interesting few days for sure though nothing really adds up in the end. My FBG continues to be ok Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday morning - around 5.2 - 5.6 Sunday did look a bit of a one off driven by the amount of exercise I did that day I think so I will simply park that.

Monday returned to the Friday/Saturday pattern of a big spike in BG but I had divided my shakes more evenly so the spike was lower. On Monday night I had a lower peek - about 6.7 (from 7.7 previously). I was kind of interested in why that had happened but put it down to a long break between lunch at 12 and dinner at 8pm due to travel.

Then on Wednesday - today - my morning shake didn't make it to a 6.1 peek and returned nicely to FBG within 2 hours. In my diabetic life I had not had that and Lunch had a similar though not quite so good result - it stayed at 6 past the 2 hour mark so I was beginning to get a feeling of "hello, something is changing here one week on" but this evening returned to an 8 peek after one hour. The morning and the lunch shakes also showed a less rapid rise - an earlier peek so I was getting excited about first phase insulin release but I have parked that for now after a very disappointing evening meal. But you know week 2 day 1 still a long way to go.

In terms of hunger, yes, before dinner I was hungry but not before breakfast nor lunch. I am now over 600 calories a day as I have the evening veg with my shakes (so 3meals not 4) I estimate somewhere between 700 - 800.

Oh - my before meal number is always good - same as FBG though as yet not seeing many 4's I live in hope.

 

[Tannith]

Week 2 - Day 8 over.
The good news is there are only 48 days left.

An interesting few days for sure though nothing really adds up in the end. My FBG continues to be ok Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday morning - around 5.2 - 5.6 Sunday did look a bit of a one off driven by the amount of exercise I did that day I think so I will simply park that.

Monday returned to the Friday/Saturday pattern of a big spike in BG but I had divided my shakes more evenly so the spike was lower. On Monday night I had a lower peek - about 6.7 (from 7.7 previously). I was kind of interested in why that had happened but put it down to a long break between lunch at 12 and dinner at 8pm due to travel.

Then on Wednesday - today - my morning shake didn't make it to a 6.1 peek and returned nicely to FBG within 2 hours. In my diabetic life I had not had that and Lunch had a similar though not quite so good result - it stayed at 6 past the 2 hour mark so I was beginning to get a feeling of "hello, something is changing here one week on" but this evening returned to an 8 peek after one hour. The morning and the lunch shakes also showed a less rapid rise - an earlier peek so I was getting excited about first phase insulin release but I have parked that for now after a very disappointing evening meal. But you know week 2 day 1 still a long way to go.

In terms of hunger, yes, before dinner I was hungry but not before breakfast nor lunch. I am now over 600 calories a day as I have the evening veg with my shakes (so 3meals not 4) I estimate somewhere between 700 - 800.

Oh - my before meal number is always good - same as FBG though as yet not seeing many 4's I live in hope.

Well done Fleegle. Keep up the good work.

 

[Fleegle]

Week 2 and day 9.
Another similar day. FBG and pre meal levels good between 5 & 5.4
Also - three hour reading after shakes is a good 5.5-6.
But the peeks of the shake is around 8.3 always around 1 - 1h 20 after the shake - which is after all 21g of carbs. With the exception of the morning shake which was more like 7.7.

I am not seeing any improvement at all in these peeks - I have no idea what happened Tuesday with the exception that the gaps between shakes were larger.

I am going to have to figure out how I reduce this because I am uncomfortable with those peeks now. I will probably give it the full two weeks and then I am going to start thinking about reducing the shakes to two but split into three parts and finding something else for the other 200 carbs.

I was thinking about a small piece of fish or lean chicken for an evening meal would be good given Dr Taylor says as long as you stick to the 600/200 per day all should be fine.

Bit disappointed if I am honest and worried that I making my insulin resistance higher by the highs.

 

[Fleegle]

Just a very minor update - after 2 hours the BG is now at 6.6 which is a fall of 1.7 in an hour - so maybe there is a bit of insulin floating around and working.

 

[Fleegle]

I wondered if someone could help to explain what my morning results mean and if there is any information from it that would shape my next 7 weeks on my diet. Particularly @bulkbiker @CherryAA and @Bluetit1802 as you had recent experience with your OGT test.
About the only good thing I can think of on the shakes is that they are a standard unit of measure. In the lunch time and evening meals I am seeing a spike of 8.3. In the morning, same shake - 7.1 after an hour so 1.2 less. And though not statistically significant consistent.

I am interested in what you think it might mean in terms of insulin production and ressistance? Or perhaps simply a longer time gap? It is interesting that going from a huge liver dump am - I am now consuming 25g of carbs first thing and seeing a smaller blip.

On the basis IR is typically worse in the morning - I was thinking it might mean I am producing a bit of insulin and in the morning the liver just sucks this up because of the long break. Where as at lunch time - simply no more room and similarly in the evening?

But I know so little about this. And of course - it all might mean nothing at all.

 

[Bluetit1802]

I think you are worrying too much. You are only on day 9 but your base line levels are good and normal, so that is good news. You are spiking post meal but not to an horrendous level. I think you may need some injection of patience!

It isn't easy to comment because I don't know what you are doing between eating and testing. It isn' t just food that raises levels. I assume you aren't sitting on your bum all day. Are you making notes on exercise, (and that includes housework, shopping, showering, etc.)? Do your stress levels rise at any particular part of the day?

You are doing great. Don't forget this is an 8 week diet, not a 9 day one! These things take time.

 

[CherryAA]

Hi

I wondered if someone could help to explain what my morning results mean and if there is any information from it that would shape my next 7 weeks on my diet. Particularly @bulkbiker @CherryAA and @Bluetit1802 as you had recent experience with your OGT test.
About the only good thing I can think of on the shakes is that they are a standard unit of measure. In the lunch time and evening meals I am seeing a spike of 8.3. In the morning, same shake - 7.1 after an hour so 1.2 less. And though not statistically significant consistent.

I am interested in what you think it might mean in terms of insulin production and ressistance? Or perhaps simply a longer time gap? It is interesting that going from a huge liver dump am - I am now consuming 25g of carbs first thing and seeing a smaller blip.

On the basis IR is typically worse in the morning - I was thinking it might mean I am producing a bit of insulin and in the morning the liver just sucks this up because of the long break. Where as at lunch time - simply no more room and similarly in the evening?

But I know so little about this. And of course - it all might mean nothing at all.

In general terms I agree that following the diet IS likely to work and if you can stick with it then that is great. However, based on the theory I've been developing on my thread I think I can also explain what you are witnessing and how in practise following an 800 calorie restricted diet which is ALSO as low carb real foods as possible in preference to one which is made of reconstituted powders is likely to work better and achieve faster overall result.

I know what I want to write but its a bit complicated so it will take me a bit to put it together if you want to understand in more detail . I will post it here when I'm done.

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/blog-entry/a-unifying-theory-of-disease.1795/#comment-2199

 

[Fleegle]

I think you are worrying too much. You are only on day 9 but your base line levels are good and normal, so that is good news. You are spiking post meal but not to an horrendous level. I think you may need some injection of patience!

It isn't easy to comment because I don't know what you are doing between eating and testing. It isn' t just food that raises levels. I assume you aren't sitting on your bum all day. Are you making notes on exercise, (and that includes housework, shopping, showering, etc.)? Do your stress levels rise at any particular part of the day?

You are doing great. Don't forget this is an 8 week diet, not a 9 day one! These things take time.

You are so right - I wasn't gifted patience
Patience is a virtue... Only another 6 weeks 4 days to go....

 

[bulkbiker]

You are so right - I wasn't gifted patience
Patience is a virtue... Only another 6 weeks 4 days to go....

Keep it up Fleegle you've got this.. I don't think your morning numbers and then lunch and dinner really show much apart from how cussedly awkward our bodies can be when they want! Although i'm thinking it might be that after an overnight fast your body is more prepared for the carb influx that the morning shake represents.. Especially if you usually have breakfast anyway.. I'll wait for what @CherryAA has to say as she's coming up with some brilliant theories about High Insulin levels.

 

[CherryAA]

Keep it up Fleegle you've got this.. I don't think your morning numbers and then lunch and dinner really show much apart from how cussedly awkward our bodies can be when they want! Although i'm thinking it might be that after an overnight fast your body is more prepared for the carb influx that the morning shake represents.. Especially if you usually have breakfast anyway.. I'll wait for what @CherryAA has to say as she's coming up with some brilliant theories about High Insulin levels.

Ok , I'm done, I think I might be getting to the end of my incessant worrying about what is going on, bccause I've finally reconciled what I've been reading with a story that makes sense, from all the confusin competing data I get presented with at every turn.

Admittedly the blog ended up rather longer than I anticipated to finally get to my Newcastle Diet thought process. If anyone is interested in how I got there and has enough patience please take the time to read through my blog.

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/blog-entry/a-unifying-theory-of-disease.1795/

the last l posting of that is this



Implications of the circulating insulin theory for the Newcastle Diet

The Newcastle diet suggests an 800 calorie a day diet eaten as three powdered shakes with some vegetables. It is higher carb. than an LCHF diet and users report higher blood glucose as a result. It is not known to what extent the actual shakes are replicating real foods in terms of nutrients or what the insulin response is to these shakes.


I think in anyone has the willpower to achieve it then that's superb and I Would not encourage anyone to stop trying based on anything I have to say. So total respect to all those trying.

I do however think that there may be a better way to get the result that might actually be easier to do, taste better and work faster.

That way would be ONE lovely LCHF meal per day of about 800 calories ( but the actual number will come out based on the foods chosen see below )


From the blog ( admittedly very long analysis of what is going on )

I now believe an optimum approach to achieve remission would be

Food

1) Approx 20-30g carbs to get the relevant nutrients = ie 80-120 calories

2) Approx 1g per fat free body weight of proteins = say 60- 90 g = 240-360 calories

This will give rise to whatever fats are included in the above proteins and the total calorie count to match

3) depending on the proteins chosen and how fatty they are - one table spoon of each of

olive oil (mono) , cod liver oil ( om 3) and a knob of butter. (sat ) and 10g macadamia nuts ( healthy om 6)

4) 2 tablespoons of apple cider vinegar (though probably other vinegars would work too ( from D Fung's obesity code) - vinegar blocks insulin release)

Choose nutrient dense foods with the least insulin responses this food list sets these out
https://optimisingnutrition.com/201...ood-sugar-regulation-and-nutritoinal-ketosis/

Time

Eat the entire lot at one meal per day . NO SNACKING not even a grape. drink only water or black coffee or tea

See this post for why NO SNACKING
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/why-cheating-matters.127127/#post-1573956

EXERCISE

Do 2 minutes High Intensity exercise on waking first thing in the morning, and after the meal as that wakes up insulin responses

"Curing" diabetes

Based on all the stuff above THAT should be the way to bring own circulating insulin quickly, break a diet logjam and " cure" diabetes.

I have no idea if I've got the willpower to do that - but I am going to try to get as close as I can for a while and see what happens.

I'm off for my black coffee now .....

 

[CherryAA]

Just a very minor update - after 2 hours the BG is now at 6.6 which is a fall of 1.7 in an hour - so maybe there is a bit of insulin floating around and working.

Hi Fleegle,

Have you actually had your fasting insulin tested? I think for a lot of T2 diabetics it might come as a bit of a surprise to find that we have quite high levels of insulin floating around. In my view it is the fact that it starts off at such a high level, that makes it more and more difficult to make enough of it to deal with actual food. i.e. its the insulin level itself that is contributing to the insulin resistance and when the diet is working it is actually bringing down those initial insulin levels and thus making it easier for any insulin you actually make to respond to the demands made on it. You may find it you have it tested that the number is way higher than the optimum which seems to be around 2-6 iUI/ml .

 

[Fleegle]

Hi Fleegle,

Have you actually had your fasting insulin tested? I think for a lot of T2 diabetics it might come as a bit of a surprise to find that we have quite high levels of insulin floating around. In my view it is the fact that it starts off at such a high level, that makes it more and more difficult to make enough of it to deal with actual food. i.e. its the insulin level itself that is contributing to the insulin resistance and when the diet is working it is actually bringing down those initial insulin levels and thus making it easier for any insulin you actually make to respond to the demands made on it. You may find it you have it tested that the number is way higher than the optimum which seems to be around 2-6 iUI/ml .

Not done so yet but fully intend to after my ND diet has completed. A very good idea.

 

[Fleegle]

So in todays news.
Week 2 day 10.
Morning shake predictable pattern - FBG 5.2 rose to about 7.1 then dropped in the two hours to 6.2.
Then lunch time - which was earlier than normal due to going away for the weekend it went to 8.3 before falling back. I had a walk into town today, after about 90mins post lunch shake and was thinking about the timing of my final shake and decided because I was going to get in a car then on a plane I would probably just have it there and then so I did. 90mins post lunch my BG was 6.2. Had shake, no real rapid rise - went up to 7.9 then 6.2 after 90 mins 5.6 after the second hour.
Pleased to have consumed 50g of carbs in a little under 5 hours and gone from around 5.2 - 5.6 in a bit of a double bounce. Don't understand it at all but that is an entirely different matter.

Weighed myself this morning - only 5 days not 7 and lost just over one pound and according to my smarter than me scales - all fat. I am not in there or there abouts on waist to height and BMI.

 

[Bluetit1802]

You are so right - I wasn't gifted patience
Patience is a virtue... ...

......... seldom found in women and never in man ... as my old Nana used to say. I think you are virtuous even attempting this. I know I couldn't do it. My only suggestion is to reduce the carb intake at every meal and eat real low carb food., maybe skipping one of your meals. I actually have no idea if this would work on 800 calories or if hunger would get the better of you.

 

[OrsonKartt]

@Fleegle , I do wish you the best of luck.

Just an observation, are you having some oil with your vegetables? Very important point that I was not told, even though I was being medically supervised on ND Total food replacement diet. Adding the oil can prevent gallstones developing, or if already present, increasing in size.

A year ago I did the Newcastle diet, against the advise of my diabetic nurse. It certainly sorted out my blood sugars but I have what I am self diagnosing as a gall bladder issue. At the time I'd read the warning but didn't realise that I had a build up ..... If I had know that some fat would have moderated the discomfort I now feel , I would have gone that way. I'm hoping that it will pass in time. Best of luck with the diet. I found it brutal but doable...