Newly diagnosed and confused

[Hampshire_Lad]

Hi,
I was confirmed this week as having type 2 diabetes. I'm on the borderline of having to take tablets so have been told to change my diet to begin with.
I'm 6 foot 3 but have always been skinny so am worried about losing too much weight.
I was told to talk to the diabetic nurse at my local hospital but she is not available until September 12th so was wondering please if you good people on here could help me with my confusion over something please?

I've read the healthy balanced diet pages on here but they seem to contradict the advice I've read elsewhere?
Basically my diet until now has consisted of a lot of starchy foods such as pasta rice and potatoes. I've read forums elsewhere on the web that advise to avoid them totally if you have diabetes, or at least make the portions tiny.
However the pages on here say to try to include some starchy foods every day? And further they say it's fine to eat rice, pasta or noodles.....
Can you advise please on what the correct advice is because if I can continue to eat these foods I wont have to worry about losing too much weight?
Many thanks,
Simon

 

[Prem51]

Hi @Hampshire_Lad and welcome to the forum. I don't think you will have read on this forum that you should include starchy foods every day. or that it's fine to eat rice, past or noodles.
A lot of the Type 2s on here have found that a Low Carbohydrate High Fat (LCHF) approach to eating has lowered our blood sugar readings. Starchy foods turn to sugars in our bodies, so they aren't good for T2 diabetics
Do you know what your HbA1c (blood sugar reading) test result was? If not you should find out to know where you are starting from.

 

[SockFiddler]

Hi @Hampshire_Lad and welcome to the forums

Can I ask what your HbA1c (the blood test) results were (you should have had 2 to confirm a diagnosis, but often one is enough to refer on to specialist services and the second comes later)?

Before I go further, I'm going to tag in @daisy1 and @AM1874 two lovely forum regulars who will have newcomer information and details on cheap, reliable meters (with super-affordable test strips). You might get lucky and get a diabetic nurse (DN) who prescribes you a meter, but the NHS rarely do that for T2s on tablets so you'll likely have to self-fund.

Testing is important (regardless of the NHS position) because it's how we understand the impact of the food we eat on our bodies. Before you consider any kind of diet change, you need to get an idea of what your blood sugar is doing. There is lots of further info on the forums about this (I won't bombard you with further links).

The simple fact is, carbs turn into sugar in our bodies. Sugar will elevate our blood glucose (BG) levels. Fur us T2's, our insulin isn't effective in getting that sugar out, so we need to find other mechanisms to achieve that. A lot of us achieve that control over our BG by limiting the carbs we eat in the first place: the less sugar in, the less sugar to enter our blood.

Carbs = sugar.

The difference between T2s and T1s (though there are other types, too) is that T1s don't produce enough insulin in the first place, while T2's produce insulin but our bodies are resistant to it - you've probably read a lot about "insulin resistance".

The confusion you have over seemingly conflicting advice is threefold:

- The NHS doesn't seem to recognise the impact of carbs (they limit their advice to sugar only) and continue to recommend carbs as part of a "healthy" diet. This is based upon decades-old (partly industry influenced) thinking but is yet to be updated.

- T1s and T2s will approach diet and management somewhat differently, as T1s have a greater risk of hypos while T2s face potentially life-changing long-term consequences. While a lot of things we all say will be in agreement, it's important to note whether a particular poster is T1 or T2. It's a habit you'll get into!

- There are as many ways of eating, changing your lifestyle, using diet to control your BG as there are people on this forum. And even among the advocates of LCHF, there are hundreds of different, individual plans and targets and approaches. That doesn't mean that it's ineffective, but that all of us experience our diabetes differently, we all have different lifestyles, budgets and priorities and that it is possible to find a low-carb "flavour" that works for you.

Start at the beginning - follow the Low Carb program, keep asking questions, get a meter and (perhaps) start a food diary listing what you ate, when, what was in it and what your BG was before and 2 hours after eating. Experiment with different foods and consider your options.

It's taken a long time to develop T2D, and I know it's disheartening to have to wait until 12th September to talk to a professional. But in the meantime, there are some tools you can easily (and cheaply) get hold of to kick start your journey with.

Welcome aboard!

 

[andcol]

Hello and welcome to the forum. I will tag @daisy1 who will be able to provide some very good starter information. It is broad and non-prescription so you can decide which way you feel you want to go.

 

[AM1874]

Hi @Hampshire_Lad .. and welcome
Ii is confusing at first .. but you have certainly made a good move coming here. Since joining this forum, the folks here have given me so much info, advice and support that I am now much more confident about the journey ahead. So ask your questions and be assured that you will receive the answers that you need. It can all seem uphill to start with but, in my experience, it gets easier .. very quickly.

The key point to take on board is that managing and controlling your diabetes (or pre-diabetes) through exercise, diet and testing your Blood Glucose seems to be the best way forward for many people. For me, committing to an LCHF (Low Carb High Fat) lifestyle and testing 3-5 times a day seems to be working and you'll find that there is a wealth of info, relevant advice and positive support about LCHF on the forum ..

I see that others have already tagged @daisy1 for you and I suggest that you read up on the Low Carb Program in the information that she will soon be sending you. You might also find the discussion on the Low Carb Diet forum helpful .. together with the following Diet Doctor websites, which will give you all the info that you need on what and what not to eat ...
Low Carb Intro and Information and Low Carbs in 60 Seconds

It is a top priority that get yourself a test meter and, for this, the following websites might help:
https://homehealth-uk.com/product-category/blood-glucose/
for the SD Codefree meter, which costs £12.98 or:
http://spirit-healthcare.co.uk/product/tee2-blood-glucose-meter/
who distribute the TEE 2 meter, which is free.
I have both which I alternate for comparative purposes and I have never found any significant difference between them.

Unless you are prescribed test strips by your doctor (unlikely), the costs of testing comes down to the ongoing charges for test strips and lancets. Make sure that you tick the appropriate box on the on-line order form and you won't pay VAT on your meter or strips.
For the SD Codefree, the strips are £7.69 for a pack of 50 and there are discount codes available for bulk purchases:
5 packs x 50 use code: 264086 .. cost is £29.49
10 packs x 50 use code: 975833 .. cost is £58.98
For the TEE 2, the strips are £7.75 for a pack of 50 .. but there are no discount codes currently available

I'm testing 3-5 times a day which works out at around £10 to £12 per month for either of the two packages above but, more importantly, I now know what my BG levels are .. and I can now manage them

Hope this helps

 

[Hampshire_Lad]

Hi,
Thankyou very much for your replies and for your welcome. Yes It's all a bit daunting but to have you guys to ask for advice is very heartening.

All I could make out from the hospital receptionist when she called was that anyone scoring over 48 in a particular test has diabetes, and I scored 59 in that test. This was my 3rd blood test which she said confirmed the diagnosis.

I was about to go grocery shopping now but I think I'll take my time and look into the low carb diet you recommend.

The area I got the info about on eating starchy food at least once a day by the way was here about half way down the page

Thanks again,
Simon

 

[AM1874]

Hi @Hampshire_Lad
You would do well to avoid the forum where you got your "starchy carb" info and stick with this one. Sadly, the "other" one is considered by many to be official because it churns out the same rubbish advice about diet, testing etc that you will probably receive from your Diabetic Nursie, Dietician and/or other HCPs. My advice if and when this happens is ..
# Listen
# Nod
# Smile and say thankyou
# Ignore
AND, if you're not sure .. ask on this forum

Hope this helps

 

[DCUKMod]

Hi,
Thankyou very much for your replies and for your welcome. Yes It's all a bit daunting but to have you guys to ask for advice is very heartening.

All I could make out from the hospital receptionist when she called was that anyone scoring over 48 in a particular test has diabetes, and I scored 59 in that test. This was my 3rd blood test which she said confirmed the diagnosis.

I was about to go grocery shopping now but I think I'll take my time and look into the low carb diet you recommend.

The area I got the info about on eating starchy food at least once a day by the way was here about half way down the page

Thanks again,
Simon

As you are already discovering, there's a lot of conflicting information out there.

Many of us found that eating "normal" amounts of starchy carbs, in one form or another, wasn't helping us much. They way to find out which foods work for us, or boost our sugars to to test our own blood scores on a day to day basis. That way you can see your own, personalised feedback, on a day-to-day, and meal-by-meal basis.

Many medics, and health care professionals don't support T2s testing, but much of hat is, unfortunately, budgetary based. Once I made it clear I intended to test my bloods, even if I had to self-fund it, there was a greater tolerance, if not necessarily support of the activity.

Using that information will help you form your own way of eating. It is all a bit of a puzzle to begin with.

 

[daisy1]

@Hampshire_Lad

Hello Simon and welcome to the Forum Here is the Basic Information we give to new members and I hope it will be useful for you. Have a look at the Low Carb Program as I think it will help you. Ask as many questions as you like and someone will be able to reply.


BASIC INFORMATION FOR NEWLY DIAGNOSED DIABETICS

Diabetes is the general term to describe people who have blood that is sweeter than normal. A number of different types of diabetes exist.

A diagnosis of diabetes tends to be a big shock for most of us. It’s far from the end of the world though and on this forum you'll find well over 250,000 people who are demonstrating this.

On the forum we have found that with the number of new people being diagnosed with diabetes each day, sometimes the NHS is not being able to give all the advice it would perhaps like to deliver - particularly with regards to people with type 2 diabetes.

The role of carbohydrate

Carbohydrates are a factor in diabetes because they ultimately break down into sugar (glucose) within our blood. We then need enough insulin to either convert the blood sugar into energy for our body, or to store the blood sugar as body fat.

If the amount of carbohydrate we take in is more than our body’s own (or injected) insulin can cope with, then our blood sugar will rise.

The bad news

Research indicates that raised blood sugar levels over a period of years can lead to organ damage, commonly referred to as diabetic complications.

The good news

People on the forum here have shown that there is plenty of opportunity to keep blood sugar levels from going too high. It’s a daily task but it’s within our reach and it’s well worth the effort.

Controlling your carbs

The info below is primarily aimed at people with type 2 diabetes, however, it may also be of benefit for other types of diabetes as well.

There are two approaches to controlling your carbs:

• Reduce your carbohydrate intake
• Choose ‘better’ carbohydrates

Reduce your carbohydrates

A large number of people on this forum have chosen to reduce the amount of carbohydrates they eat as they have found this to be an effective way of improving (lowering) their blood sugar levels.

The carbohydrates which tend to have the most pronounced effect on blood sugar levels tend to be starchy carbohydrates such as rice, pasta, bread, potatoes and similar root vegetables, flour based products (pastry, cakes, biscuits, battered food etc) and certain fruits.

Choosing better carbohydrates

The low glycaemic index diet is often favoured by healthcare professionals but some people with diabetes find that low GI does not help their blood sugar enough and may wish to cut out these foods altogether.

Read more on carbohydrates and diabetes.

Over 145,000 people have taken part in the Low Carb Program - a free 10 week structured education course that is helping people lose weight and reduce medication dependency by explaining the science behind carbs, insulin and GI.

Eating what works for you

Different people respond differently to different types of food. What works for one person may not work so well for another. The best way to see which foods are working for you is to test your blood sugar with a glucose meter.

To be able to see what effect a particular type of food or meal has on your blood sugar is to do a test before the meal and then test after the meal. A test 2 hours after the meal gives a good idea of how your body has reacted to the meal.

The blood sugar ranges recommended by NICE are as follows:

Blood glucose ranges for type 2 diabetes

• Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 8.5 mmol/l

Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (adults)

• Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 9 mmol/l

Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (children)

• Before meals: 4 to 8 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 10 mmol/l

However, those that are able to, may wish to keep blood sugar levels below the NICE after meal targets.

Access to blood glucose test strips

The NICE guidelines suggest that people newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes should be offered:

• structured education to every person and/or their carer at and around the time of diagnosis, with annual reinforcement and review
• self-monitoring of plasma glucose to a person newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes only as an integral part of his or her self-management education

Therefore both structured education and self-monitoring of blood glucose should be offered to people with type 2 diabetes. Read more on getting access to blood glucose testing supplies.

You may also be interested to read questions to ask at a diabetic clinic.

Note: This post has been edited from Sue/Ken's post to include up to date information.

Take part in Diabetes.co.uk digital education programs and improve your understanding. They're all free.

• Low Carb Program - it's made front-page news of the New Scientist and The Times. Developed with 20,000 people with type 2 diabetes; 96% of people who take part recommend it... find out why
• Hypo Program - improve your understanding of hypos. There's a version for people with diabetes, parents/guardians of children with type 1, children with type 1 diabetes, teachers and HCPs.

 

[Sam50]

Hi Hampshire_Lad and welcome to the forum

I can't do better than echo the good advice given already on this thread. Do buy yourself a meter and test (Amazon do the Codefree one for about £12) and severely cut the carbs, potatoes/bread/pasta/rice/cereals etc. as all carb turns to sugar inside the body.

When you do get to see the nurse don't take her dietary advice as gospel-it will probably be inaccurate. She told my Hubby that it was okay to eat bananas, Rich Tea biscuits and porridge !!! (no, no and no !)
Everyone's body is different and we all react differently to the various food types.

Your HbA1C is not that high as a start point. Hubby was diagnosed as 98 when he got his results 6 weeks ago and is now around 52 (according to the blood sugar converter which you can find on this site) and has achieved this through low carbing.

Good luck and ask whatever you need to know on the forum. Lots of friendly and very helpful folk on here

 

[Resurgam]

Having a meter is a great help, as it shows you just how you are reacting to the carbohydrates you eat - as you will probably get a lot of 'information' about eating carbs which do not apply to you - and some which don't apply to just about any diabetic.
You can lower your blood glucose and get your Hba1c into the normal range by cutting out the carbs which affect you most, and reducing the mid range ones - though you might find yourself eating a lot of salad.
It does get better as time goes on, particularly if you become more active. It can be harder for some than for others, as we all differ in our reaction to carbs.
Don't worry if your eyesight goes blurry as you drop your blood glucose numbers - it is a reaction to the changes in the fluids in your eyes, and they will be unstable for a while, but will settle down once you adjust to lower concentrations.

 

[Liam1955]

Welcome @Hampshire_Lad to the Forum .

 

[wookie101]

Hi and welcome Hampshire_Lad. I'm in Hampshire and my Drs gave me a meter so you might be lucky and your doctors might be happy to provide you one on the NHS.

What I'd like to add is that this forum is amazing for support and I see that daisy has now given you here guide, which I must say I followed and lower my sugars amazingly... I then lapsed, but back on to sorting myself out.

All I can say is eat to your meter, see what foods you'll have to restrict and which you can still enjoy and things will in no time start to look up .

Your HbA1c isn'ttoo high so hopefully you'll be able to have a good effect in bringing it down, but I'd add, slowly don't do anything to quickly or drastically, well all need to eat and enjoy life.

We're all here to help, take care you.

 

[Hampshire_Lad]

Hi, thanks very much for your replies
I will order a meter and some test strips as advised.

I bumped into a friend I used to work with at the weekend and he said he too has had type 2 diabetes for the past 3 years.
He said he has never gone in for carb counting and just experiments with eating different food groups whilst checking his blood sugar levels to see which type of diet would give him lower results.

He's concentrated on keeping mainly to a low fat diet but more than that he has focused on his exercising because he finds that easier to do the calorie counting, etc.

His understanding is that it is more important for diabetics who have to use insulin to control their blood sugar (i.e. Type 1 diabetics) than us type 2’s because type 1’s need to work out how much insulin they inject depending on how many calories they have taken in.
Is he right in your opinion? Its only gone on to increase my confusion to be honest

 

[wookie101]

Hi,

All of our DNA is different so what works for one, won't always work for someone else, but his advise is good, as in eat to your meter and any exercise is goods. Once you have your meter you'll be able to test and see what foods, work or don't work and then steer yourself towards what works for you. I drastically reduced my food intake and reduced carbs, as the body turns carbs into sugar, notice I didn't cut them out. And as you can see from my sig block, it worked... But I've lapsed, as well... I'm only human,.

Stay in touch mate but, you'll have to see what works for you and take it from there, I followed daisy's advice and I can now see...
I was diagnosed as I started to go blind but thats what a 103 result gets you...

 

[pleinster]

Hi, thanks very much for your replies
I will order a meter and some test strips as advised.

I bumped into a friend I used to work with at the weekend and he said he too has had type 2 diabetes for the past 3 years.
He said he has never gone in for carb counting and just experiments with eating different food groups whilst checking his blood sugar levels to see which type of diet would give him lower results.

He's concentrated on keeping mainly to a low fat diet but more than that he has focused on his exercising because he finds that easier to do the calorie counting, etc.

His understanding is that it is more important for diabetics who have to use insulin to control their blood sugar (i.e. Type 1 diabetics) than us type 2’s because type 1’s need to work out how much insulin they inject depending on how many calories they have taken in.
Is he right in your opinion? Its only gone on to increase my confusion to be honest

Honest opinion - hell no! I dread to think what his blood sugar levels are. The blood sugar level is important to all of us! we will only avoid "complications" (which can be horrendous) if we stay in control of our blood sugar. For those who choose not to take meds (and for many who do take them) the only way to do that effectively is to test regularly, to adjust diet accordingly (by reference to what our meters and our own records of food tell us). Counting calories is way less relevant than counting carbohydrates...it's the carbs that push up the blood sugar, its the carbs that push up the weight. the only reason to look at calories is to make sure you are eating enough of them. A low fat diet alone will not have any great positive impact. many of us eat a low carb diet with high fat...the body will use the fat for energy in the absence of carbs. We all have our opinions...in mine...he is wrong. Use the expertise on this site...people here are succeeding because they know that keeping your blood sugar in check is crucial! Leave him to his approach - arrive at your own but base it on information and on experience.

 

[azure]

Hi, thanks very much for your replies
I will order a meter and some test strips as advised.

I bumped into a friend I used to work with at the weekend and he said he too has had type 2 diabetes for the past 3 years.
He said he has never gone in for carb counting and just experiments with eating different food groups whilst checking his blood sugar levels to see which type of diet would give him lower results.

He's concentrated on keeping mainly to a low fat diet but more than that he has focused on his exercising because he finds that easier to do the calorie counting, etc.

His understanding is that it is more important for diabetics who have to use insulin to control their blood sugar (i.e. Type 1 diabetics) than us type 2’s because type 1’s need to work out how much insulin they inject depending on how many calories they have taken in.
Is he right in your opinion? Its only gone on to increase my confusion to be honest

Just an important correction for readers here. Type 1s calculate mealtime insulin based on the carbs they're about to consume not the calories

 

[Hampshire_Lad]

Hi,
I got fed up with having to wait until 12th September to see the diabetic nurse so I went to see my doctor.
She refused to give me a testing meter as she thinks I can control my type 2 by eating normally and just cutting out biscuits, cake and chocolate. When I questioned this she said she'd been a doctor for 30 years so I should just heed her advice.
To be honest I think I'll heed the advice of you guys on here who actually have type 2 rather than listen to her

Just as an aside I have a question on Carbohydrates if I may please?
This morning in Asda I tried to find a cereal with low carbs, but couldn't. The lowest count I could find was Kellogs all bran, which has 48g of carbs per 100g of which 18g is sugar.
My question is which reading matters, carbs or sugar? or both?

Thanks,
Simon

 

[wookie101]

Hi,

I must say thats a tad harsh from your doctor, I'm in Hampshire as well, Andover, and they were very supportive and happy for me to have a meter, they encouraged me to not test after every meal (as they couldn't support that number of strips for a T2, which to start with I ignored as I needed to know what foods did and didn't push my blood sugars up)

However on your question I tend to find that box'd cereals are sugar mountains, which is why I have porridge, yer I know its not sexy, but it seems to do a good job of keeping my sugars down (now that I'm back on track).

I'll let the debate start on this, BUT, I'd say its the sugars you want to look out for on packaging... Carbs get turned into sugar in the body, but sugar are already sugar so it goes straight in...

 

[Bluetit1802]

Hi,
I got fed up with having to wait until 12th September to see the diabetic nurse so I went to see my doctor.
She refused to give me a testing meter as she thinks I can control my type 2 by eating normally and just cutting out biscuits, cake and chocolate. When I questioned this she said she'd been a doctor for 30 years so I should just heed her advice.
To be honest I think I'll heed the advice of you guys on here who actually have type 2 rather than listen to her

Just as an aside I have a question on Carbohydrates if I may please?
This morning in Asda I tried to find a cereal with low carbs, but couldn't. The lowest count I could find was Kellogs all bran, which has 48g of carbs per 100g of which 18g is sugar.
My question is which reading matters, carbs or sugar? or both?

Thanks,
Simon

It sounds like your doctor was trained 30 years ago and hasn't had any since!

You need to buy your own meter. Most of us have to. They are essential.

You won't find any cereals that are low carb. Cereal is one of the major culprits in raising blood glucose levels. You would do better to forget them and try something else for breakfast. Eggs, cheese, cold meats, bacon, a nice fry up.

It is carbs that matter. Sugar is just one carb, but all carbs matter. You can ignore the "of which sugars" bit. Just look for total carbs.