Out of control !

[Wraakian]

Hi, I have been diagnosed with type 2 diabetes since 1989 have been on meds for many years now.


About 12 months ago I went on a diabetes expert course at my local hospital and until then had generally been well in control of my sugar levels. On the course we were taught that sugar is no longer seen as the main culprit but carbs were now the number 1 enemy. As a result of this course I changed my diet to be more aware of carbs and my suger levels went through the roof. I realise that this of course might have happened anyway as my diabetes type 2 got worse but I am now in a position where my blood sugar levels are at between 12 and 18.5 max and no matter how much I cut down on sugar and carbs my reading are always in double figures and this is worrying both for myself and my wife.

After my last blood test I was called in by my GP who upped the only medication she could gliclazide by 40mg) as I was already on 4 x 500mgs Metformin, 1 sitagliptin and 2 x 80mgs gliclazide daily. This has in no way brought down my blood sugar levels after 2 months of use and I am worried that I will have to wait until my next blood test in October before this is picked up by my GP. Can anyone tell me if I should I be worried or will it not be too damaging to wait until October?

Also is it okay to go to the next stage of using insulin injections should that be the case and how effective are these at prolonging a healthier life for a type 2 diabetic?

Another question that I have is should I always have to keep away from the occasional cake or biscuit or should my meds allow me at least some leeway because when I have spoken to dietitians they have usually said the occasional Madeira cake - say once per week - is not a problem, but it does seem to be with me and I have tried to keep off such things and still find my blood sugar readings are too high

. I already exercise regularly twice a week in a gym plus swimming twice a week and my wife and I are very active doing cycling and walking. I have lots of oat and fibre cereals and fruit such as oranges and wholemeal bread but notice that someone on the forum said some diabetics cannot tolerate wholemeal cereals? I eat lots of fish and chicken with some red meat and lots of veg or salad. Can anyone advise me on these issues I have please ..... Thank you.

 

[sanguine]

If you are eating cakes, biscuits (even if only occasionally), oat cereals, oranges, wholemeal bread etc that could be the root of your problem. Those foods would spike me and many/most other T2s significantly. Despite being made more 'carb aware' I would speculate that you are still eating too many of them.

 

[Mike d]

I have lots of oat and fibre cereals and fruit such as oranges and wholemeal bread but notice that someone on the forum said some diabetics cannot tolerate wholemeal cereals?

... a LOT of T2 diabetics wouldn't go within a country mile of ANY of that stuff. .... and Cake??

You need to rethink those choices ....

 

[ButtterflyLady]

Welcome to the forum. I will tag @daisy1 so she can post her info for people new to the forum, it covers how to reduce carbs and blood glucose levels.

 

[Wraakian]

If you are eating cakes, biscuits (even if only occasionally), oat cereals, oranges, wholemeal bread etc that could be the root of your problem. Those foods would spike me and many/most other T2s significantly. Despite being made more 'carb aware' I would speculate that you are still eating too many of them.

Thanks Rod, I am willing to try anything so will go for several weeks without the usual oats, oranges and wholemeal (I have already stopped eating the occasional biscuits and cake) and see how my blood tests go on. My blood tests are usually after overnight fasting and 2 hours after food.

Thanks again Rod ... Jim

 

[Wraakian]

Welcome to the forum. I will tag @daisy1 so she can post her info for people new to the forum, it covers how to reduce carbs and blood glucose levels.

Thanks I'll take a look at that!

 

[Wraakian]

I have lots of oat and fibre cereals and fruit such as oranges and wholemeal bread but notice that someone on the forum said some diabetics cannot tolerate wholemeal cereals?

... a LOT of T2 diabetics wouldn't go within a country mile of ANY of that stuff. .... and Cake??

You need to rethink those choices ....

Hi Mike, I don't have the cakes and biscuits even though the expert diabetes course promoted doing so .... they even brought in baked cakes for everyone to have during the breaks? I'm going to change what I am eating though and give these wholemeal and oat muesli type cereals a miss along with the wholemeal bread and oranges. My thinking was that the wholemeal seeded batch and such like would take the sugar through the body without it being absorbed but as it doesn't seem to be working for me it's worth cutting them out to see if I get better results .... Thanks again Mike .... Jim

 

[Mike d]

Hi Jim

No guarantees in this life, but I'd wager you'll see some drops in your BS numbers. Nothing needs to be said about the diabetes expert course that offered baked cakes ..... but "moronic" fits.

Take a look around on the site for diets and meal plans ... you'll get WAY more here than you will anywhere else ... and from people who live with this, not some clowns who "think" they know.

Good luck.

 

[azure]

Hi Mike, I don't have the cakes and biscuits even though the expert diabetes course promoted doing so .... they even brought in baked cakes for everyone to have during the breaks? I'm going to change what I am eating though and give these wholemeal and oat muesli type cereals a miss along with the wholemeal bread and oranges. My thinking was that the wholemeal seeded batch and such like would take the sugar through the body without it being absorbed but as it doesn't seem to be working for me it's worth cutting them out to see if I get better results .... Thanks again Mike .... Jim

I don't think they'd have that much fibre so most of the carbs would be absorbed. Do you count carbs? If you do, you could try a reduction and see if that gets your blood sugar down. As far as the body knows, carbs are carbs whether they come from brown bread or from cake. I have Type 1 not Type 2, but I count all carbs and things like bread and pasta affect me just as much as cake.

You could try reducing your carbs and see how your sugars go. If you can, keep records of your food and test results as that really helps you get a picture of what's happening and what works or doesn't work.

Good luck

 

[Wraakian]

I don't think they'd have that much fibre so most of the carbs would be absorbed. Do you count carbs? If you do, you could try a reduction and see if that gets your blood sugar down. As far as the body knows, carbs are carbs whether they come from brown bread or from cake. I have Type 1 not Type 2, but I count all carbs and things like bread and pasta affect me just as much as cake.

You could try reducing your carbs and see how your sugars go. If you can, keep records of your food and test results as that really helps you get a picture of what's happening and what works or doesn't work.

Good luck

Yes, I have used the carbs and cals app on my mobile in the past and that might help again, I'll go back and see if it helps

Regards

Jim.

 

[daisy1]

@Wraakian

Hello Jim and welcome to the forum

To add to the very useful advice you have had above, here is the information we give to new members and I hope you will find it helpful.


BASIC INFORMATION FOR NEW MEMBERS

Diabetes is the general term to describe people who have blood that is sweeter than normal. A number of different types of diabetes exist.

A diagnosis of diabetes tends to be a big shock for most of us. It’s far from the end of the world though and on this forum you’ll find over 150,000 people who are demonstrating this.

On the forum we have found that with the number of new people being diagnosed with diabetes each day, sometimes the NHS is not being able to give all the advice it would perhaps like to deliver - particularly with regards to people with type 2 diabetes.

The role of carbohydrate

Carbohydrates are a factor in diabetes because they ultimately break down into sugar (glucose) within our blood. We then need enough insulin to either convert the blood sugar into energy for our body, or to store the blood sugar as body fat.

If the amount of carbohydrate we take in is more than our body’s own (or injected) insulin can cope with, then our blood sugar will rise.

The bad news

Research indicates that raised blood sugar levels over a period of years can lead to organ damage, commonly referred to as diabetic complications.

The good news

People on the forum here have shown that there is plenty of opportunity to keep blood sugar levels from going too high. It’s a daily task but it’s within our reach and it’s well worth the effort.

Controlling your carbs

The info below is primarily aimed at people with type 2 diabetes, however, it may also be of benefit for other types of diabetes as well.
There are two approaches to controlling your carbs:

• Reduce your carbohydrate intake
• Choose ‘better’ carbohydrates

Reduce your carbohydrates

A large number of people on this forum have chosen to reduce the amount of carbohydrates they eat as they have found this to be an effective way of improving (lowering) their blood sugar levels.

The carbohydrates which tend to have the most pronounced effect on blood sugar levels tend to be starchy carbohydrates such as rice, pasta, bread, potatoes and similar root vegetables, flour based products (pastry, cakes, biscuits, battered food etc) and certain fruits.

Choosing better carbohydrates

Another option is to replace ‘white carbohydrates’ (such as white bread, white rice, white flour etc) with whole grain varieties. The idea behind having whole grain varieties is that the carbohydrates get broken down slower than the white varieties –and these are said to have a lower glycaemic index.
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/food/diabetes-and-whole-grains.html

The low glycaemic index diet is often favoured by healthcare professionals but some people with diabetes find that low GI does not help their blood sugar enough and may wish to cut out these foods altogether.

Read more on carbohydrates and diabetes

Eating what works for you

Different people respond differently to different types of food. What works for one person may not work so well for another. The best way to see which foods are working for you is to test your blood sugar with a glucose meter.

To be able to see what effect a particular type of food or meal has on your blood sugar is to do a test before the meal and then test after the meal. A test 2 hours after the meal gives a good idea of how your body has reacted to the meal.

The blood sugar ranges recommended by NICE are as follows:

Blood glucose ranges for type 2 diabetes

• Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 8.5 mmol/l

Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (adults)

• Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 9 mmol/l

Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (children)

• Before meals: 4 to 8 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 10 mmol/l

However, those that are able to, may wish to keep blood sugar levels below the NICE after meal targets.

Access to blood glucose test strips

The NICE guidelines suggest that people newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes should be offered:

• structured education to every person and/or their carer at and around the time of diagnosis, with annual reinforcement and review
• self-monitoring of plasma glucose to a person newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes only as an integral part of his or her self-management education

Therefore both structured education and self-monitoring of blood glucose should be offered to people with type 2 diabetes. Read more on getting access to bloodglucose testing supplies.

You may also be interested to read questions to ask at a diabetic clinic

Note: This post has been edited from Sue/Ken's post to include up to date information.

 

[Wraakian]

I don't think they'd have that much fibre so most of the carbs would be absorbed. Do you count carbs? If you do, you could try a reduction and see if that gets your blood sugar down. As far as the body knows, carbs are carbs whether they come from brown bread or from cake. I have Type 1 not Type 2, but I count all carbs and things like bread and pasta affect me just as much as cake.

You could try reducing your carbs and see how your sugars go. If you can, keep records of your food and test results as that really helps you get a picture of what's happening and what works or doesn't work.

Good luck

Yes, I'll go back on the carbs and cals calculator and see if that helps Mike,

Regards

Jim

 

[Jaylee]

Also is it okay to go to the next stage of using insulin injections should that be the case and how effective are these at prolonging a healthier life for a type 2 diabetic?
.

Hi,
You realy don't want to go down the insulin route if I can be helped.
It opens up a whole new "can of worms" balancing insulin to carb ratios.. Not forgetting the excersise you do too..? Well done with the excersise by the way!
If your a driver? DVLC need informing which could restrict your licence period. Hey, let's not forget a possible hike on your insurance too?!

Start with looking at your diet if your thinking longevity.. There is plenty of good advice to be had from experience on here & they may even help you cut down on the T2 medication your already on...?!

Wishing you all the best.!

 

[urbanracer]

Hi @Wraakian , if you're fond of your fruit, I've seen many people post in the forums that berries are generally better for us than other fruits. But test yourself and find out what effect they have on you.

Grapes are little sugar bombs, I use them sometimes to keep my bg numbers elevated at work prior to driving home.

 

[Daibell]

Hi. Yes, do keep the oats etc down a bit. How old are you and what is your BMI? There is always the possibly of late onset T1 rather than T2. Quite a few of us have been there. Insulin may be the right solution and I was really thankful to move on to it from max dose of all the tablets and low-carbing. I don't find the insulin a problem; just a nuisance and I'm in complete control of my blood sugar levels. When you need it you need it.

 

[DeejayR]

Hiya, welcome. Sounds as if you're a stage or two further on than I was when I was diagnosed. On conventional advice I gave up cakes, sweets, biscuits and puddings to avoid sugar, but carried on eating "good" carbs and low fat dairy. That lost me a lot of weight I didn't need to lose but kept my blood sugar high. It's only when I dumped bread, pasta, rice and root crops and upped the fat that I stabilised my weight and blood sugar.
Luckily I hadn't started taking any meds for diabetes and recently I cam off statins as well for a trial period. I feel great.
Hope you get back on track. Lots to read, lots to learn! But all positive.

 

[sanguine]

Hi Mike, I don't have the cakes and biscuits even though the expert diabetes course promoted doing so .... they even brought in baked cakes for everyone to have during the breaks?

It's just unbelievable, though sadly all too commonplace - what are they thinking? Would you give half a lager to an alcoholic, or a Snickers bar to someone with a nut allergy (OK that last one is a bit extreme but just serves to illustrate inappropriate actions).

But very well done for taking steps to change your own diet, I'm sure you will quickly see the benefits.

 

[Wraakian]

Thank you to everyone who sent me help, For the first time after just one afternoon of abstinence from the wheat foods, oats, oranges my blood sugars have gone down below double figures at 9.2 mmol which is incredible after having months of double figures. I will continue cutting out the bread, root veg, etc; Although this might be a very premature result, I am much more hopeful that I can get my diabetes under good control now and am so grateful for the advice given on this website so pleased that I found it. Thanks again guys, I will let you know how I go on either way .... Kind regards to you all .... Jim

 

[Wraakian]

Hi,
You realy don't want to go down the insulin route if I can be helped.
It opens up a whole new "can of worms" balancing insulin to carb ratios.. Not forgetting the excersise you do too..? Well done with the excersise by the way!
If your a driver? DVLC need informing which could restrict your licence period. Hey, let's not forget a possible hike on your insurance too?!

Start with looking at your diet if your thinking longevity.. There is plenty of good advice to be had from experience on here & they may even help you cut down on the T2 medication your already on...?!

Wishing you all the best.!

Very grateful for that info and I will certainly try hard to control my diet.

 

[Wraakian]

Hiya, welcome. Sounds as if you're a stage or two further on than I was when I was diagnosed. On conventional advice I gave up cakes, sweets, biscuits and puddings to avoid sugar, but carried on eating "good" carbs and low fat dairy. That lost me a lot of weight I didn't need to lose but kept my blood sugar high. It's only when I dumped bread, pasta, rice and root crops and upped the fat that I stabilised my weight and blood sugar.
Luckily I hadn't started taking any meds for diabetes and recently I cam off statins as well for a trial period. I feel great.
Hope you get back on track. Lots to read, lots to learn! But all positive.

Good advice and I'm definitely cutting out the bread, rice and root crops now ... thanks .... Jim