Im newbie to type 1 diabetes only diagnosed back in May. Everything has been goin great everyone i seen the doctor the nurses and other health pros where pleased with my progress. Up until this week. Around about 3 am Sunday morning i woke up in a HYPO. Blood tested and gave me a reading of 2.8. Kind of scary as this is the lowest i have ever went and strange that i tested before bed and got a reading of 8.0. The HYPOs have continued threw out the week to the point where i have went from 14 units of Lantus and 14 units of Novorapid daily to 4 units of Lantus and practically no Novorapid at all. All this on the instruction of the nurse i spoke to on the phone. She mentioned that due to me only having the condition for 6 months that the pancreas can give out bursts of insulin. Im truly baffled by this. Has anyone ever been threw this sort of thing? How long do these spells normally last for? What would be the next possible step as i am still having hypos? Any advice or information greatly appreciated.
Pancreas producing insulin again?
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Hi Rick,
Your currently in the stage that they call 'The Honeymoon Period' where you still have insulin-producing beta cells functioning..........hence your unexplained readings!
Not everyone goes through this period (I didn't) and it can lasts for weeks, months and even years in some cases, be guided by your DSN on how best to adjust your insulin doses.
Your currently in the stage that they call 'The Honeymoon Period' where you still have insulin-producing beta cells functioning..........hence your unexplained readings!
Not everyone goes through this period (I didn't) and it can lasts for weeks, months and even years in some cases, be guided by your DSN on how best to adjust your insulin doses.
Hi,
As explained kindly by Nigel oddly the pancreas can sometimes get up and go after insulin replacement sort of gives it a rest, like a last stand!
Unfortunately this won't last, some people have rumoured to experience so for years but that is very rare, it's quite common for it to happen not long after diagnosis.
The main problem is that the honeymooning can be quite erratic and unpredictable, so one minute your pancreas unloads some insulin and you hypo, so next time you compensate then your pancreas decides to sit and do nothing so your BG's obviously will rise.
My advice would be that if you can get away with just a small amount on lantus then go for it!, keep a close eye on your BG's often and be prepared for Hypo's or Hyper's ...
I don't think i had a first honeymoon, but i did sort of have a pump honeymoon, which is truly bizarre, my Bg's were LITERALLY perfect for two weeks after getting hooked up, then all of a sudden they went haywire.
Good luck!
As explained kindly by Nigel oddly the pancreas can sometimes get up and go after insulin replacement sort of gives it a rest, like a last stand!
Unfortunately this won't last, some people have rumoured to experience so for years but that is very rare, it's quite common for it to happen not long after diagnosis.
The main problem is that the honeymooning can be quite erratic and unpredictable, so one minute your pancreas unloads some insulin and you hypo, so next time you compensate then your pancreas decides to sit and do nothing so your BG's obviously will rise.
My advice would be that if you can get away with just a small amount on lantus then go for it!, keep a close eye on your BG's often and be prepared for Hypo's or Hyper's ...
I don't think i had a first honeymoon, but i did sort of have a pump honeymoon, which is truly bizarre, my Bg's were LITERALLY perfect for two weeks after getting hooked up, then all of a sudden they went haywire.
Good luck!
Would just like to say thank you to both noblehead and ebony321 for there posts. Really cleared things up. Im manageing to keep at around 7 with just 4 units of lantus and small corrections with novorapid when BG starts to rise. :thumbup:
Hi Rick,
I too have been recently diagnosed T1, in November. Just like yourself, I've been doing really well until the last 3 weeks. I've been having loads of hypos (fortunately I've been able to tackle them), usually after eating as though I am taking too much insulin for the meal I am eating. My school of thought was that I was either getting the carbs count wrong or my ratio of carb to insulin was wrong. However, now I think that this could be a honeymoon thing. I've not been able to contact my nurse till tomorrow but have tried to lower my lantus gradually to see if this has any effect. I'm on 12 lantus and roughly 6-9 novorapid depending on my meal.
It's all very confusing and frustrating. What would be great is a quick test to check just how much of a honeymoon we are on. Hawaii or Cornwall (if you get my drift) :lol:
I'll let you know how I get on.
Cheers
Kylie
I too have been recently diagnosed T1, in November. Just like yourself, I've been doing really well until the last 3 weeks. I've been having loads of hypos (fortunately I've been able to tackle them), usually after eating as though I am taking too much insulin for the meal I am eating. My school of thought was that I was either getting the carbs count wrong or my ratio of carb to insulin was wrong. However, now I think that this could be a honeymoon thing. I've not been able to contact my nurse till tomorrow but have tried to lower my lantus gradually to see if this has any effect. I'm on 12 lantus and roughly 6-9 novorapid depending on my meal.
It's all very confusing and frustrating. What would be great is a quick test to check just how much of a honeymoon we are on. Hawaii or Cornwall (if you get my drift) :lol:
I'll let you know how I get on.
Cheers
Kylie
My D team told me to continue with insulin, even if it's only a couple of units with meals etc and take a couple of units at night and stay on a pretty strict diet. I did this for a couple of weeks then decided why not enjoy and I did, I got about a 6 week honeymoon. I enjoyed food like I never had before or after. I'm not saying I don't occasionally misbehave, but I feel as guilty as when wolfing down a muffin or cake and if I over indulge do I cop it. Trust me you will know when to stop partying, but you are being offered a few weeks / months of freedom. Their theory is that the D team have managed to get you to comply with one hell of fright (diagnosis) and the risk is that it maybe much harder to get you compliant a second time which was exactly my problem. You will however learn. I go past a great ice cream and Milkshake place. It took me a number of attempts to learn that one of their milkshakes is so good, but I feel so sick afterwards I'm now to scared to go in there as I know a few minutes of pleasure is followed by hours of misery. The official line everywhere is do as the Drs tell you. Just remember, they know the theory but have never practice it. They must be seen to do the right thing or risk being sued or up on malpractice charges. Would I do anything different if I got a second honeymoon, you bet - I would be into the bad food straight away. The choice is yours, but you are only going to get one go at this.
Robin Ah-Sing
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Robin Ah-Sing
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Hi...I found that my pancreas has been giving small amounts os insulin for some time...4 years...making it hard to regulate.Hi Rick,
Your currently in the stage that they call 'The Honeymoon Period' where you still have insulin-producing beta cells functioning..........hence your unexplained readings!
Not everyone goes through this period (I didn't) and it can lasts for weeks, months and even years in some cases, be guided by your DSN on how best to adjust your insulin doses.
I started mountain biking a year ago and found it was much better but I never lost any weight and sti needed 20units of apidra with every meal and 15units of lantus before bed.
My daughter is a chef and stated me on a carb free diet to help.
This is week 5 without any insulin and the best sugar levels..I was 126kg...I am 113kg now...yes it is hard as I cycle every second day...15-20km...but it is worth it. BLOOD PRESSURE is down from dangerously high to near perfect.
Please try this...let me know if you need recipes for the food.it is good and keeps you filled for the day. If I can help 1 person with my story .....
catapillar
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I don't think encouraging type 1 diabetics to believe they can stop taking insulin without medical supervision is helpful to anyone. Either you are honeymooning and making endogenous insulin, or you're not. If you're not, stopping insulin will kill you. And if you are, stopping insulin should only be done with careful medical guidance.
I'm glad you are getting on well, but that is what works for you, with what appears to be LADA or type 1.5 in the honeymoon. It won't work for someone with type 1. No matter what they eat, they will need to keep taking insulin.
@catapillar
I'm LADA and having reduced and stopped my own BI and QA insulin over a 4 month period I'd say it CAN be done. I too achieved this with LCHF, and did so having informed my DSN I was doing it - and whilst they were unable to endorse it as it goes against their current guidelines, they have been amazed by the results and continue to keep a close eye on me and now support me with how I am managing my D.
There is a time and place for taking insulin - I wouldn't be here now posting if I hadn't been put on it within 3 hours of diagnosis, however once my hba1c had been reduced to 'normal' levels, and my pancreas had been given a rest, it is now able to fully support me whilst following LCHF; which in itself has given me the energy and zest for life I haven't seen in decades.
Honeymoon? - possible (the longest one I know of was 7 years)
Cure? - I think it's a little early, rather that it's successful management of a challenging condition.
Bebo321
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That's interesting.
Combining very low/zero carb with exercise evidently works well for you. I am aware that insulin use can be reduced to minimal amounts when having this lifestyle, but I've not heard that it can be avoided all together. It is possible that you have maintained some function of your beta cells - I don't think your experience would be replicated (or be realistically sustainable) in the vast majority of T1s. Thank you for sharing your experience - it does challenge the notion that insulin is essential for life.
ElkBond
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I am with @catapillar here, the people suggesting stopping insulin and trying a lchf need to be careful in their recommendation. As a honeymooner too I produce insulin and can get away with the odd miscalculation, my basal is also low (less than 5 units a day somedays) but thats because the pancreas is still slightly performing. For people with no production, stopping insulin is going to result in DKA. Even if you low carb to the extreme and number don't look that bad, if theres no insulin being produced then no glucose is getting in the cells, therefore the whole fat-ketone malarky will begin. Be careful stopping even if you believe you are honeymooning, some days i am on 50-70 percent decrease in basal if its one of those days but never none for this reason.
azure
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Some people with LADA can stop insulin temporarily but this should only be done with the support of a medical team.
This is an extremely old thread but the advice hasn't changed: do NOT stop your insulin without medical support. It can be immediately dangerous, with the risk of DKA, and also risky long term as higher than desired sugars can cause insidious damage to the body, eg retinopathy.
Before the discovery of insulin, Type 1s were put on a diet of black coffee and whisky - ie they ate basically nothing - and every single one of them died, some very quickly (usually the younger ones), some more slowly (usually those who developed Type 1 as an adult).
Keep testing @Robin Ah-Sing and watch for your honeymoon ending and your sugars creeping up. Insulin will prolong the life of your remaining beta cells then, so take action sooner rather than later.
Best wishes and enjoy this respite from insulin.
This is an extremely old thread but the advice hasn't changed: do NOT stop your insulin without medical support. It can be immediately dangerous, with the risk of DKA, and also risky long term as higher than desired sugars can cause insidious damage to the body, eg retinopathy.
Before the discovery of insulin, Type 1s were put on a diet of black coffee and whisky - ie they ate basically nothing - and every single one of them died, some very quickly (usually the younger ones), some more slowly (usually those who developed Type 1 as an adult).
Keep testing @Robin Ah-Sing and watch for your honeymoon ending and your sugars creeping up. Insulin will prolong the life of your remaining beta cells then, so take action sooner rather than later.
Best wishes and enjoy this respite from insulin.
catapillar
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It can ONLY be done if you are making your own insulin in the honeymoon. That is the only reason it is possible. That could be because you are type 1.5 and honeymooning or because you are type 2. If you are type 1 your immune system will eventually kill off the beta cells and insulin production will cease, without insulin you will die. There is no cure for type 1. That is why insulin should not be stopped without medical guidance.
If you are type 1 and not honeymooning stopping insulin will kill you, carbs or not.
No it doesn't. Without insulin, you die. It has to be either produced by the pancreas (endogenous insulin production) or injected (exogenous insulin). If someone isn't injecting insulin, it's because they are producing it internally.
GrantGam
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I'm not a doctor, but don't please don't give dangerous advice to our forum members.
In terms of your situation, I'd seek a second opinion on your T1 diagnosis. Going by the information you've given (overweight and high insulin requirements for meals prior to your new diet), it's likely that you are T2.
A T1 with a honeymoon period of four years is unlikely. Further to this, a T1 will always need insulin, no exceptions. LADA or T1.5 is also possible, however even the smallest instance of LADA typically still requires some insulin to be injected.
azure
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@Robin Ah-Sing I see you've had diabetes many years so a honeymoon is less likely:
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/trying-new-meds.59314/
It seems like you may be a very slow onset Type 1 or a Type 2 previously on insulin?
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/trying-new-meds.59314/
It seems like you may be a very slow onset Type 1 or a Type 2 previously on insulin?
GrantGam
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I agree @azure, there is possibly a bit of confusion here - I think @Robin Ah-Sing may be under the incorrect impression that type 2 diabetes is reclassified as type 1 when insulin therapy is introduced.
It goes without saying that the above is not the case, just covering my rear
Bebo321
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Just as a thought experiment here - what function do you know of insulin performing other than to facilitate the uptake of glucose by cells in the body? (I'm not being facetious here, I genuinely don't know the answer to this and you may have an answer)
Let's just suppose that somebody follows a zero carb diet and exercises regularly. We know that GLUT4 receptors (the transporters in cells enabling the uptake of glucose) within muscles translocate and proliferate in number in response to muscle contraction (exercise) just as they respond to insulin (in the absence of exercise). Consequently, the body is able to overcome the need for insulin in this regard. The body can take up glucose into cells (certainly into muscle cells) in the absence of insulin.
We also know that the body can fuel itself effectively on fats (ketones) alone and isn't dependant on carbs in the diet. Even a potential blood glucose rise from proteins and some carbs can be exercised away.
In the absence of insulin I could foresee a potential issue of blood glucose rise through intensive exercise or any bodily stress response, where without insulin suppressing the glucagon release from the pancreas there may be an unchecked glucose rise. If muscles are regularly depleted of their glycogen stores through exercise however, then surely the blood glucose level would gradually fall?
Of course I am not advocating that anyone with type 1 diabetes stops taking insulin but sometimes it's good to challenge the things that we think we know.
azure
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@Bebo321 That 'thought experiment' is done by many newly diagnosed Type 1s and parents of Type 1 children. It does not work. Insulin is crucial to life and without it you die.
Before insulin was discovered, Type 1 was a terminal illness - every single sufferer died. No carbs, exercise, starvation diets cured Type 1 - they only delayed the inevitable.
Moreover, in the final stages before diagnosis, I struggled to walk up the road to my house let alone take vigorous exercise. I was extremely ill but didn't realise it.
So many desperate people clutch at straws after a Type 1 diagnosis, and I consider it unkind at best, dangerous at worst to suggest that there's an easy answer out there that we can find if we think hard enough. The evidence speaks for itself.
Before insulin was discovered, Type 1 was a terminal illness - every single sufferer died. No carbs, exercise, starvation diets cured Type 1 - they only delayed the inevitable.
Moreover, in the final stages before diagnosis, I struggled to walk up the road to my house let alone take vigorous exercise. I was extremely ill but didn't realise it.
So many desperate people clutch at straws after a Type 1 diagnosis, and I consider it unkind at best, dangerous at worst to suggest that there's an easy answer out there that we can find if we think hard enough. The evidence speaks for itself.
