Pesky dawn phenomenon

[Brunneria]

Hi All,

I am tired of this dratted morning rise in blood glucose(BG). Every evening I go to bed with my BG in the low fives, but it has risen to the 6s by the time I wake up. Then it rises steadily until I eat brekkie, sometimes as high as 8.5 (I often forget to eat til quite late, because my BG is so high that I don't feel hungry)!

Well, I've had enough.
It's mucking up my HbA1c more than anything I eat during the day.
So I am planning a systematic campaign to sort the thing out.

Each week, for 7 days, I'm going to try one thing (suggestions welcome!) and keep track using my monitor. If whatever technique I am trying seems to be having an effect, I can extend it for another 7 days.

Feel free to join me, add suggestions, throw peanuts (although I may eat them!), or tell me how YOU beat the Dread Dawn Phen....

Week 1:
I'm going to use an old Montignac suggestion to eat something low carb before getting out of bed
- in my case it will be a 1oz cheese string, or babybel, since they can sit on my bedside
(I never have carby snacks before bed, so I don't need to cut those out)

 

[carty]

I do hope you find an answer because I have the same problem and I have tried every thing that I could find and now I have given up testing in the morning because I was getting stressed and that was making my BGs go up !
CAROL

 

[Bluetit1802]

I have a similar problem to yourself. Mine seems to rise all morning. . My fasting levels are averaging at 6.1 when I don't eat a thing after my evening meal (starts 7pm) and only drink water. I test as soon as I get up. Today before lunch at 1-20pm it was 6.5 despite a 20 minute brisk walk within an hour beforehand. One of the good things about Metformin is that it reduces the dawn phenomenon slightly, but I'm not on it. Apparently liver dumps affect some people more than others, whether diabetic or not. I think its a matter of luck and quite random.

I will follow your progress with interest!

 

[jclare]

Hi

I suffer from this phenomena also. I can't seem to pin down anything that helps. Same problem - go to sleep around the 5 .5 mark and wake up with variations of 7 to 8 readings, if not more. I have read that this is a so called 'liver dump' to get you going after the fast but, if that's true, why doesn't the same thing apply when my readings drop below 4 in the afternoon. If liver dump actually exists then no-one would get a hypo! Its very frustrating and I will be watching your progress with keen interest - good luck

 

[novorapidboi26]

try having something slowly released before bed, like some peanut butter......


having something digesting in the stomach should help with the liver dump.....

 

[Brunneria]

I have tried the slow release thing, just before bed (several years ago), it was at a time when I was waking up with 2am hypos, and it made a big difference. At that time, I had never even heard of a dawn phenomenon...

So will save that suggestion for week 2!

Thank you.

 

[AdamF]

I have the same issue - last night, went to bed at 4.5, woke this morning at 7.2. Nothing I do seems to make a difference. I'll be interested to see what you discover!

Sent from the Diabetes Forum App

 

[Bluetit1802]

I wonder if sleeping patterns have something to do with it?

Personally I am a good sleeper. Apart from one or two trips to the loo (depends on how much water I've drunk in the evening) I get a good 9 hours every night, sometimes followed by a warm and cosy doze before I get up. It is probably a 14 or 15 hours fast other than water. I wonder if that's the reason?

 

[Robbity]

I'm having similar problems too, but my dump seems to occur around an hour or so after I get up if I don't eat immediately. It seems to have developed over the last couple of months (I was OK for first 2-3 months after being diagnosed!). I think that eating before I get up properly was helping me initially, and I probably need to go back to that routine.

It's been stressing me out too!

Robbity

 

[andcol]

I find when I eat lots of protein my level maintain at a slightly higher level and this is constant Last week I went on a real meat feast and went to bed stuffed with blood sugars at 5.5 Woke in the morning at 5.5 and stayed at 5.5 until about 11AM I actually was beginning to think my meter was broke. Seems to happen more when I eat beef than meats like chicken

So maybe a good helping of hard to break down protein may help

 

[miriamy]

try having something slowly released before bed, like some peanut butter......


having something digesting in the stomach should help with the liver dump.....

Thanks for this suggestion. I'm going to try that. Maybe my high fasting bg (average 9) is due to an empty stomach as I am not eating after 7pm and have breakfast around 7 am.
Cheers

Sent from the Diabetes Forum App

 

[Brunneria]

Day 1
(Don't worry, I won't give a report every morning)

Woke up 7.25 popped to bathroom
Took BG - 6.1
Went back to bed
Immediately ate one cheese string
Had an hour lie in, showered, dressed, hair and face.
At 9.15 took BG again - 6.1
No change at all - very different from my usual 1.5 rise!

So, umm, my very unscientific experiment is yielding unexpectedly early results!
- remember, this is a bank hol morning, so hardly typical. And I have not control set up for comparison (only past BG results), and there is only me taking part (although anyone else can join in!)

Will carry on for a week and see what happens...

 

[andcol]

Day 1
(Don't worry, I won't give a report every morning)

Woke up 7.25 popped to bathroom
Took BG - 6.1
Went back to bed
Immediately ate one cheese string
Had an hour lie in, showered, dressed, hair and face.
At 9.15 took BG again - 6.1
No change at all - very different from my usual 1.5 rise!

So, umm, my very unscientific experiment is yielding unexpectedly early results!
- remember, this is a bank hol morning, so hardly typical. And I have not control set up for comparison (only past BG results), and there is only me taking part (although anyone else can join in!)

Will carry on for a week and see what happens...

Could that be you went back to bed so didnt use your muscles so no need to soak up that glucose? Try the same next bank holiday without eating (only a few weeks to wait)

 

[Brunneria]

Could that be you went back to bed so didnt use your muscles so no need to soak up that glucose? Try the same next bank holiday without eating (only a few weeks to wait)

Yesterday (Sunday) I also had a lie in, but no snack, and my BG rose steadily.
6.4 on waking
8.2 pre breakfast (then 2 hrs later a satisfactory 6.7)

For the last month, the smallest difference between my waking and pre-brekkie has been 0.6
The average difference is 1.5

The contrast today is... unexpected, to say the least!

 

[andcol]

well that is interesting. Would be good to see if it is consistent across experiments

 

[Brunneria]

well that is interesting. Would be good to see if it is consistent across experiments

Nods vigorously!

 

[Robbity]

Your two experiments seem to be exactly what happens to me - when I was getting up & having a quick snack brekkie (e.g. yoghurt with fruit or nuts), then going back to bed (I'm retired so can snooze/laze in bed if I want!) the my levels are fine, it's when I get up for a wee, go back to bed then get up later, bathe, etc, etc then go and faff around getting a late breakfast/brunch that my glucose goes high.

Robbity

 

[andcol]

It sounds like by having something to eat you are holding off your liver dump because your bodies knows sugar is on the way.

 

[Engineer88]

Nods vigorously!

Would you mind if I copy your experiment including cgm data for a t1? wonder if we could get cheese strings on px lol

 

[Brunneria]

Of course! Climb aboard!

Not really sure how CGM works... Do you get readings, or does it just automatically adjust?

And I may get very tired of cheese strings... The problem is they are soooo convenient! Having to quell my snobbish anti-processed food leanings.