Pesky dawn phenomenon

[Ian DP]

Baffling..... I can only say what works for me.

Two things I would try. 1). Is to test before going to bed as well. This will tell you if your exercise reduced your bs levels (some find they don't).

2). If your bs levels are higher last thing before bed than 2 hours after dinner (mine often are) it tends to indicate that you are eating too much protein through the day, even the day before, as protein can take many hours before making glucose. If this is the case, try eating more fat and less protein (fatty cuts meat, butter cream etc).

Hope this helps

I have found Dr bernstein book excellent and follow his diet. If he suggests something it has to be worth a try.

 

[speters33w]

@Ian DP
I am no expert by any stretch of anyone's imagination, but I did do some research on this phenomenon before I came here to see what people actually do about it short of medication.
If I understand right, a rise in morning BG is not really as baffling if you realize it is not related to metabolising food - that is NOT food in, sugar out.
There are two reasons for unexplained rise in morning BG. The names are often used interchangeably but they are different phenomena.
The first, usually found in Type 1, is called the "Somogyi effect" results from BG lowering to hypo conditions while sleeping and the body freaks out and says: "Blimey! I'm gonna die" and dumps glucose into the bloodstream.
This is not what my problem is.
The second, called "Dawn Phenomenon" - the problem I have, is found in both Type 1 and Type 2 and is an evolutionary response, where the body dumps fight or flight hormones into your system between 3:00 and 5:30 AM so you are able to protect your tribal harem from predators that stalk the dawn and from roving marauders who would like a harem but don't have one. In case my wife reads this I'll add that this evolutionary response is obsolete as I only have one female to protect. But these fight or flight hormones dump glucose into your blood, in my case a lot of glucose, and while a normal non-diabetic will merely metabolize the glucose, a broken pancreas doesn't know what to do with it.
I'll speculate the small amount of food in the morning helps people because your body says: "If he's sitting around eating I'm going to guess either there are no threats around or he's a total idiot and deserves to be removed from the gene pool. I'll stop making hormones."
I'm speculating the reason my morning BG went DOWN after breakfast is I used a high calorie slow carb breakfast. Slow carbs, "Diabetic Rice," "Diabetic Pasta," etc. are difficult to digest, so your body says: "Oh boy, food, time to metabolize" and since the starches are not broken down into sugars yet there is no rise in BG for a couple hours. I've found I pay for those carbs later, four or five hours after eating them. They are NOT free carbs, they will pass the two hour after test, but they will raise BG four, five, or more hours later. But my BG later in the day is better so I can afford the rise at lunch or dinner much better than at breakfast.

 

[rowan]

O.k, so do you keep snacks in your bedside draw? Never thought of that before as afraid I might start helping myself whilst asleep!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...ire-wheel-of-Cheddar-cheese-while-asleep.html

 

[Robbity]

@speters33w:

The second, called "Dawn Phenomenon" - the problem I have, is found in both Type 1 and Type 2 and is an evolutionary response, where the body dumps fight or flight hormones into your system between 3:00 and 5:30 AM so you are able to protect your tribal harem from predators that stalk the dawn and from roving marauders who would like a harem but don't have one...

Errm, since as far as I know, women didn't/don't have this harem protection issue, so why do we get these dratted dumps - an idle enquiring (female) mind would like to know?!?

Robbity

 

[Brunneria]

@speters33w:



Errm, since as far as I know, women didn't/don't have this harem protection issue, so why do we get these dratted dumps - an idle enquiring (female) mind would like to know?!?

Robbity

I wondered that.

Maybe women wake up with raised BG to prepare them for the
'Gerroff ya great hairy lump. I don't have time for that. This morning I have to wash, dress and feed the kids, and myself if I'm lucky, then pack lunches, pack school bags, get sports gear, find homework, feed the cat, run the kids to school and get to work. All by 8.30. I said gerroff!'

 

[rowan]

I did once read somewhere (can't remember where) that if you are a "morning person" ie. you wake up and are alive and kicking, energetic and wide awake all morning, then you have a naturally bigger DP. If, like me, you are dozy and incapable of much thought in the mornings, you have naturally less DP.

I wish! I'm definitely not a mornng person, takes me till midday to wake up properly and my DP is huuge!

 

[Ian DP]

If you are ever up 2 to 4 hours earlier than planned, try drinking 1/2 pint water. I have done this now on half a dozen occasions and found a lower than expected pre breakfast BG reading. On the last two occasions I have taken my BG reading (at 5:00am) and found my pre breakfast reading to be lower. Maybe coincidence, and I don't plan on making getting up at 5am a regular thing..... It would be interesting to know if anyone else has tried this.

 

[Bewildered]

Some great tips and information on here, I have sent my daughter to the supermarket to grab me some Brazil nuts. I realised, while reading through, that I go around 14 hours from dinner to breakfast and I am usually up early and doing my housework before I test/eat. So the plan is to take Brazil nuts and water to bed, then when I wake for the routine trip to the loo (usually around 1-2am), I shall munch on a Brazil nut and have a quick drink of water. Showers will now be taken at a tepid temperature. Hopefully I can beat the 9's I keep getting despite bedtime readings around 6.

 

[Tweetypie]

Some great tips and information on here, I have sent my daughter to the supermarket to grab me some Brazil nuts. I realised, while reading through, that I go around 14 hours from dinner to breakfast and I am usually up early and doing my housework before I test/eat. So the plan is to take Brazil nuts and water to bed, then when I wake for the routine trip to the loo (usually around 1-2am), I shall munch on a Brazil nut and have a quick drink of water. Showers will now be taken at a tepid temperature. Hopefully I can beat the 9's I keep getting despite bedtime readings around 6.

Also, what you have for breakfast makes a big difference. Mushrooms and eggs seem to work good for me! Or I usually start with a herb tea and lemon, followed by a creamy coffee if I'm not having brekkie til later . Coffee with butter whisked in also good (similar to bullet coffee). You can do it with tea too.

I also found @Ian DP 's exercise suggestion before bed helpful.

 

[LucySW]

But keep the Brazil nuts to 6 or so per day. They're very rich in selenium, and it can be overdone. I was stuffing packets daily because they are so yummy, and stopped. No cases on record of selenium toxicity from eating Brazil nuts, though - only from supplementing too much.

 

[Tweetypie]

Glad this thread has started up again - very helpful

 

[Bewildered]

Got an 8.3 first thing, I slept through so couldn't try the idea of eating a brazil nut when I needed an early a.m. trip to the loo. But I had a brazil nut on waking at around 6.30am (8.3mmols) and then slept (lazy me) until 9:00am (6.7mmols). Took the levothyroxine, waited the obligatory 30 mins and then had bacon, eggs and mushrooms. Last night's reading was less than 8.3, but that is still one of my better morning tests. Early days, plan to keep going.

 

[Ian DP]

I find that as soon as I get up my BG levels start to rise.....and rise. So I always test as soon as I get up, then immediately eat and drink something. Something low on carbs and preferably high on fat.

 

[Bewildered]

I find that as soon as I get up my BG levels start to rise.....and rise. So I always test as soon as I get up, then immediately eat and drink something. Something low on carbs and preferably high on fat.

Sadly I have to take levothyroxine and leave at least 30 mins before I can eat, but I will be testing earlier. And my breakfast have gone from porridge to either Greek yog and berries or something egg based.

 

[Ian DP]

I also take levothyroxine. I take it after my early morning snack, when I have breakfast, about an hour after I get up.

 

[Bewildered]

I also take levothyroxine. I take it after my early morning snack, when I have breakfast, about an hour after I get up.

i can't get my levels right for Levo, do you find it effective enough without the empty stomach? Sorry have hijacked the thread, finding it hard juggling the two conditions.

 

[Ian DP]

I take it after or mid way during breakfast. No problems taking it

 

[Christinerm]

Just finished reading all 18 pages of this thread. Thanks for the inspiration - will start tackling the DP straight away!

 

[Daphne917]

Sadly I have to take levothyroxine and leave at least 30 mins before I can eat, but I will be testing earlier. And my breakfast have gone from porridge to either Greek yog and berries or something egg based.

I test as soon as I get out if bed then have my Levothyroxine so that by the time I'm dressed etc i'm OK for breakfast

 

[IzzieS]

Sadly I have to take levothyroxine and leave at least 30 mins before I can eat, but I will be testing earlier. And my breakfast have gone from porridge to either Greek yog and berries or something egg based.

I take Levothyroxin, too, so i usually take it with my antihistamines as soon as I get up, then visit loo then test. Then I have a cup of tea before taking a glyclazide, before breakfast. My fasting BS still hasn't gone under 7 yet, but I am working on it.