Question for vegetarians!

[Kristin251]

do any of you count how much protein you get in a day. For some stupid reason I'm hung up on protein grams per day. I cannot eat the carbs in legumes, dairy, soy or grains so I cannot be a vegetarian obviously.

Here's the kicker... the last four days I took my 5g of smoked salmon out of my avocado breakfast. MUCH to my surprise all four days not only requires 150% less insulin but one less shot as well. Seriously, the salmon would have fit into a tablespoon probably. I always knew protein raised me but not to that degree. It is worse in the morning and I do weigh it carefully.

Point is, am I the only one that counts protein for the day???

Also does anyone use pea protein powder? I found a very clean one burn hqve read that it can spike bs fast.

Thanks for your help. I sure wish I could eat and digest all the great veggie proteins.

 

[Avocado Sevenfold]

@Kristin251 Probably anybody using an app such as MFP would be counting their daily protein?

I don't count anything these days and am just eating intuitively. I don't knowingly eat pea protein powder.

 

[Kristin251]

I don't use an app. I just count protein grams per meal as it raises my bs and I like to know my bolus. I intuitively eat carbs and fat, just not protein.

 

[AndBreathe]

do any of you count how much protein you get in a day. For some stupid reason I'm hung up on protein grams per day. I cannot eat the carbs in legumes, dairy, soy or grains so I cannot be a vegetarian obviously.

Here's the kicker... the last four days I took my 5g of smoked salmon out of my avocado breakfast. MUCH to my surprise all four days not only requires 150% less insulin but one less shot as well. Seriously, the salmon would have fit into a tablespoon probably. I always knew protein raised me but not to that degree. It is worse in the morning and I do weigh it carefully.

Point is, am I the only one that counts protein for the day???

Also does anyone use pea protein powder? I found a very clean one burn hqve read that it can spike bs fast.

Thanks for your help. I sure wish I could eat and digest all the great veggie proteins.

Kristin - to smoke the fish, there will have been a brining process first, which involves coating the fish in a mixture of salt and sugar. It could be that the brand you buy isn't washed too well before it goes into the smoker. If you have been enjoying it, you could try another brand.

Does the packaging give you any clues?

 

[Kristin251]

Zero carbs. Ingredients are wild salmon salt herbs spices lemon and olive oil. No sugars believe it or not and onLy 230 mg sodium and 1300 omega 3 per 2 oz

It happens with all protein. Eggs turkey chicken beef

And without avocado I get a huge fast spike.

 

[Enclave]

do any of you count how much protein you get in a day. For some stupid reason I'm hung up on protein grams per day.

I don't ..but I am only T2 .. I do count my carb intake ..

 

[Ledzeptt]

MFP measures my protein (about 14% of my diet, mainly from nuts, eggs, milk, Quorn and a little from pulses), but I don't LCHF so haven't noticed an impact on my BG levels and haven't felt the need to bolus for protein.

I have seen posts from T1s who need to bolus for protein at 50% of their carb ratio e.g. 1:20g if their carb ratio is 1:10g - I don't know if there's any science to this, or trial and error.

@tim2000s may know more.

 

[Kristin251]

I do bolus for half my protein. Mornings are worst. My diabetic friend switched from fish every meal to pea protein at bf, fish lunch and pulses dinner and seeing Bette bs. She's type 2 though. I can thandle carbs and never could. Hopefully it's more of a morning thing. I just wan to make sure I get enough protein. I'm about 15% too and see no reason to bump it. I just thought maybe some plant would be better on bs. I try to do the .8 g per kg and not go lower. Do you know what yours is?

 

[tim2000s]

MFP measures my protein (about 14% of my diet, mainly from nuts, eggs, milk, Quorn and a little from pulses), but I don't LCHF so haven't noticed an impact on my BG levels and haven't felt the need to bolus for protein.

I have seen posts from T1s who need to bolus for protein at 50% of their carb ratio e.g. 1:20g if their carb ratio is 1:10g - I don't know if there's any science to this, or trial and error.

@tim2000s may know more.

There's some basic science involved, but I'm not clear just how valuable it is. It stems from the idea that any protein in excess of 30g per meal is roughly 60% converted to glucose via gluconeogenesis, and this is especially true in the absence of carbs. Now that's a maximum number, and people's experiences vary, so while it's a starter, the end result tends to be trial and error...

 

[Kristin251]

There's some basic science involved, but I'm not clear just how valuable it is. It stems from the idea that any protein in excess of 30g per meal is roughly 60% converted to glucose via gluconeogenesis, and this is especially true in the absence of carbs. Now that's a maximum number, and people's experiences vary, so while it's a starter, the end result tends to be trial and error...

Tim to the rescue again!! I totally forgot about the 60% but I suppose that's why I bolus for half my protein. I just seem to gluconeogenis instantaneously.

Question. If I'm turning protein to glucose that fast does that mean I'm eating more protein than i can absorb at one time ?? To that my glycogen stores are full already? I do go by the .8 g per kg so about 40 g per day but I still get spikes! I never eat it all at once. 1.5 lunch and 2.5 dinner. Then some veggie proteins and a small snack around 5. Like half an egg or something

Protein just messes me up.

 

[tim2000s]

If I'm turning protein to glucose that fast does that mean I'm eating more protein than i can absorb at one time ?? To that my glycogen stores are full already?

It's a bit more complex. Some of it is gluconeogenesis, but protein alone in a healthy person normally induces an insulin response, as insulin is needed to use the amino acids that protein provides. this means that you also get a glucagon response to eating protein, which occurs around the meal time.

 

[Kristin251]

It's a bit more complex. Some of it is gluconeogenesis, but protein alone in a healthy person normally induces an insulin response, as insulin is needed to use the amino acids that protein provides. this means that you also get a glucagon response to eating protein, which occurs around the meal time.

Ok. I get that. But here's my mystery.

If I eat 2 oz protein at dinner, avocado and salad I bolus 1/2 unit. Last night I ate 3 oz, a bit bigger salad and avocado. Boluses one unit. At bed I was 87. 90 pre meal. Took my usual 1 lantus and woke up 25-30 ( us) higher than normal. I don't get this. Why wouldn't it show up in the three hours between dinner and bed? It's only 3 measly ounces and my bolus was spot on. I would be afraid to take a correction to stop any further rise. I suppose I could up lantus but that scares me too. I unit can sometimes drop me a tad.

Protein just frustrates the begeezers out of me!!

 

[tim2000s]

If I eat 2 oz protein at dinner, avocado and salad I bolus 1/2 unit. Last night I ate 3 oz, a bit bigger salad and avocado. Boluses one unit. At bed I was 87. 90 pre meal. Took my usual 1 lantus and woke up 25-30 ( us) higher than normal. I don't get this. Why wouldn't it show up in the three hours between dinner and bed? It's only 3 measly ounces and my bolus was spot on. I would be afraid to take a correction to stop any further rise. I suppose I could up lantus but that scares me too. I unit can sometimes drop me a tad.

Welcome to the vagaries of T1D....

 

[Kristin251]

Now it seems I'm into the ' one bad meal equals three bad days' phase. All over a little extra protein. Seriously? Ridiculous. Not the first time it's happened!! Arg

 

[Ledzeptt]

Thanks for the info @tim2000s

I would rarely eat 30g protein in one meal (it happened once in the last week), 20g is my normal max for a meal and I'd always have (substantial) carbs too: probably explaining why I've been able to ignore protein in my insulin calculations.

Going back to @Kristin251's earlier question: I don't target protein, but MFP shows it averages out at about 1g per kilo for me i.e. 60g total protein per day.

 

[Kristin251]

Thanks for the info @tim2000s

I would rarely eat 30g protein in one meal (it happened once in the last week), 20g is my normal max for a meal and I'd always have (substantial) carbs too: probably explaining why I've been able to ignore protein in my insulin calculations.

Going back to @Kristin251's earlier question: I don't target protein, but MFP shows it averages out at about 1g per kilo for me i.e. 60g total protein per day.

Do you eat protein at all meals ? Do you cont plant protein in your totals? I imagine so if you're using MFP.
If you wake up with a high fasting do you stay higher all day? I can bring it down but it pops back up. Rollercoaster. Feels lousy

 

[Ledzeptt]

I do eat protein with every meal, if only 10g. My protein figures from MFP are the combined plant and dairy figure: it doesn't split them out. It does show my main protein sources: in descending order, the top five are nuts, milk, Quorn, chickpeas (hummus), then eggs.

Unless I'm ill, my morning fasting BG is usually in the 6's; my normal 1:10 insulin:carb ratio works fine in the morning; and happily my BG usually drops back to 6'ish before lunch. My regular breakfast is a homemade, nutty muesli with full fat milk = 14g P, 43g C, 20g F -> so a mix of plant and dairy protein.

Are nuts something you can tolerate? They're a good source of protein and quite low in carbs, so may be useful to you.

I agree it's horrible when your BG is up and down -> very tiring too.

 

[Kristin251]

Nuts are an on and off thing for me. Right now off but pumpkin seeds seem to be fine. I eat nuts for awhile ( a variety) and then I start developing an intolerance of some sort. This time it was an itchy hand. Stopped nuts and much better but still there a little. Could be something else too. I've been known to have issues with nuts and need to give them up for awhile.

Pumpkin seed are quite high in protein too so hopefully they'll work.

Do you see a difference in bs when you eat plant vs animal protein? Or is it the same??

I too don't eat a lot at one time. Usually 10 lunch and 15 dinner of animal/ fish. Then a few odds and ends of random other foods. An avocado gives me 5 more. I guess I just feel that if it's raising me hours later 'something' is full or that I'm eating more than my body needs. I could be way off though

 

[Ledzeptt]

Nut allergy or intolerance seems quite common: at least you don't get a severe reaction because so many foods are labelled "may contain traces of nuts" or processed in a factory that processes nuts.

I often eat pumpkin seeds: my homemade muesli contains pumpkin and sunflower seeds.

I can't say I notice any difference between animal and plant protein, but it's probably the amount and/or type of carbs I eat with them (and the fat) that makes a difference e.g. As an alternative to muesli and milk, I'll sometimes eat poached egg on wholemeal toast (with a thin smear of olive spread) for breakfast. My BG for the rest of the morning is less constant: it tends to steadily fall. However, I doubt the protein causes this, it's just the the higher GI of bread without much fat, compared to oats mixed with (milk) fat.

I don't eat meals that are protein only or protein + fat, so can't really compare plant and animal proteins. (Though not a vegan, I don't eat meat or fish.). I'm probably more likely to eat carbs + fat, omitting protein (horror!) e.g. a croissant with a latte, although in practice there'll still be some animal protein in the milk/butter.

 

[Kristin251]

It's definitely protein for me. Got through the dreaded 3 bad days after my overindulgence of protein an running quite low again. Had 2 units lantus before bed at 83 and woke up at 50!!! Not good. The last three nights I was popping up with 2 units. So far today I've had 2 half unit boluses and running around 70. This is eye opening to me especially regarding protein at bf. I haven't changed anything else in my standard meals other than protein so I have no doubt now. The problem I have is I take such small doses that by the time my protein is digested I'm out of insulin and would need to split boluses. Not on my to do list right now.

I eat very few carbs so I don't think they fit in the equation. Balancing the right amount of fat to slow my protein is key. No hardship to eat more avocado. Haha

Thanks for the feed back.