Remission - for how long?

[Decruz]

I am into my 9th month after the diagnosis. Just tested my post meal - 5.4 mmol/l

I am just curious... how long can I live without complications?

If I am really lucky to go into remission, how long will it last?

Anyone here has gone into remission for more than 30 years?

 

[Geordie_P]

As far as I'm aware, if you can keep your levels 'non-diabetic', then you may never develop complications as such. You may have reversed it altogether.
Without knowing what your meal was, or your other medical context etc (like are you on medication?), it's probably wise to stay cautious (if you had a very low-carb meal, the readings might be low, but then they go right up if you eat rice or something like that)
Still, excellent work on your part- and a very encouraging result. I wish you a full-reversal, and if not that, then a permanent remission; failing even that, then wise control should *still* allow you to keep yourself healthy.

 

[sally and james]

If you have no idea how you achieved your remission, your guess is as good as mine as to how long it will last, but if you know how you reduced your blood sugars and general health to normal, it will last as long as you carry on doing whatever it is. The long term successes seem to be with a low carb diet, ie don't put the sugars in to your body and then they won't be there.
Sally

 

[AlexMagd]

Far as I understand it remission is no diabetic symptoms and normal blood sugars, but your body is still carb-intolerant and will spike if you consume carbs or sugars. It should be maintainable as long as you maintain whatever lifestyle/diet got you to normal numbers in the first place.

Reversal is usually used to describe a total change in your pancreatic/liver function that allows you to basically eat what you want afterwards and not spike. It's never been very clear to me how likely this is, although it seems like some people on the Newcastle diet achieved this. For how long, it's hard to say. There's frustratingly little info on this.

I daresay there isn't a lot of long-term data on this as the general view is of Type 2 as a progressive disease. It's possible as you get older it will become harder to maintain levels but who knows.

 

[Mike d]

As far as I'm aware, if you can keep your levels 'non-diabetic', then you may never develop complications as such. You may have reversed it altogether.

Not possible ... remission, yes and only if you maintain tight control. Reversal, no

 

[Robbity]

Well I've managed to maintain just on normal/very low pre diabetic levels for over three years now by eating a fairly strict Low Carb H(igher) Fat diet, but I definitely believe that I need to keep to this style of eating to be able to stay at these lower levels. I'm still as far as I'm concerned pre-disposed to diabetes, and going back to my previous high carb diet which is what in part caused it in the first place is liable to do so again. So for me being "well controlled" (which is what my GP has called me) will hopefully prevent progression but this will obviously depend on what if any damage has already been done - and as an elderly OAP I've also got a well worn body to contend with too.

Robbity

 

[Mbaker]

If you are one of the lucky one's (I think the majority) of Type 2's who can control their blood sugars, then there is no reason why "standard" complications such as eye, nerve and organ damage should be any different to a non-diabetic in the long run. From what I have observed for "reversed" / those in "remission", the difference between them and non-diabetics appears to be phase 1 insulin response and healthier food choices. Assuming your post meal of 5.4 is after 2 hours, you look well on your way to minimising or bypassing complications. I for one intend to stay LCHF indefinitely, even if there is eventually a so called cure, I want little to do with sugar or equivalents.

 

[Kailee56]

From what I've read, if you consistently keep your blood glucose in the normal range, your complication rate becomes the same as someone without diabetes. Some of the complications occur due to the chronically high glucose and insulin levels while some (kidney damage I think) occur because of the huge swings in blood glucose when eating high carb foods. Without the highs and swings the complications, if they occur, are from other things.

As for how long? Dr Richard Bernstein (physician, author, many educational videos) is in his 80's, was diagnosed type 1 in his teens, is a major proponent in all diabetics striving for the same blood glucose levels as non-diabetics, and as far as I know is exceptionally healthy even considering his age. So, I guess the answer would be into your 80's as long as you keep your blood glucose under control.

 

[Resurgam]

To be having normal levels of BG and Hba1c for 30 years would take me to 97 years old - if you can arrange that for me I will cheerfully report back to you at intervals - if not, I'll just take what I get - I know that it is down to me to maintain the correct diet and so get the good readings, but as far as I am concerned, I'm just fine with low carb, it is the modern world and its crazy eating which is wrong.

 

[Decruz]

To be having normal levels of BG and Hba1c for 30 years would take me to 97 years old - if you can arrange that for me I will cheerfully report back to you at intervals - if not, I'll just take what I get - I know that it is down to me to maintain the correct diet and so get the good readings, but as far as I am concerned, I'm just fine with low carb, it is the modern world and its crazy eating which is wrong.

Lol. Seriously, I wish you live that long, so that you can convince me and motivate me to live that long too.

Because, I will only be 68 in 30 years' time. My son will only be 36 then. I wanna see him grow up. I wanna spend some last few years with my wife. Because - I am not ready to end my life at 68.

 

[Valanne]

My HbA1C has come down to normal levels too on a LCHF diet. My doc keeps saying I have cured myself. I told her this is a dangerous thing to say. Its control/lifestyle change not cure.

 

[Decruz]

My HbA1C has come down to normal levels too on a LCHF diet. My doc keeps saying I have cured myself. I told her this is a dangerous thing to say. Its control/lifestyle change not cure.

Yes. It will never be cured with my understanding. But I will be really really glad if it doesn't progress. Really, I am very happy that I have diabetes... not because I am sadist, but I find myself healthier. It made me realised that what I did in the past was somewhat not right. But what worries me now is - no matter what I did now, I face progression in the end, and complications do find me in the end.

I really hope that someone right here, I only need one... to tell me that... "dude, you can control it. As long as you control it, you will be fine."

 

[Tannith]

Michael Mosely has just issued an update to his "clever guts" book. In it he says"I've also been talking to my guru Professor Roy Taylor who's based in Newcastle. He tells me that the results of a major study are coming out in December so I will keep you updated with those as I believe these results are going to be really big."
I would guess from that that the expected announcement of results from Prof Taylor will be that the ND has been a great success. He defines success by loss of liver and pancreatic fat reversing diabetes T2. We have no MRI scanners as he does, but the last lot of his trial subjects lost an average of 15% of their weight. That can be a guide for us. Subjects lost that without diabetic drugs or a low carb diet. (Prof Taylor has never mentioned low carb).And in doing so they brought their BG s down to Non Diabetic levels. This is what I am aiming to do on ND, lose 15% of my starting weight.

 

[Resurgam]

I just checked the percentage weightloss from my heaviest recorded weight to this morning - it is 15.15%. I have normal readings but do not eat many carbs as it causes me to gain weight - though at the moment the majority of my carbs are from two apples a day - I have two apple trees in the garden and they are laden with fruits, so I thought that I would see how I felt eating them. They are quite small apples and entirely organic, no chemicals used in the garden for about 35 years, and once I get over the novelty and stop eating both of them at once I am going to try cooking one and adding cinnamon as a dessert after dinner.
I remember that there was an episode of 'Doctor in the house' where he prescribed apple and an additive for a boy with weight problems and he seemed to think that they were beneficial.
There are so many apples this year I think I can gather and freeze them to eat all year round. They are so sweet and juicy too.
I am not at all concerned about having diabetes now - it seems almost beneficial as it means that I can happily select just the two apples, or whatever other source of carbs andthen to tell myself that is all for today - but be perfectly content to let it be so.

 

[Chook]

Michael Mosely has just issued an update to his "clever guts" book. In it he says"I've also been talking to my guru Professor Roy Taylor who's based in Newcastle. He tells me that the results of a major study are coming out in December so I will keep you updated with those as I believe these results are going to be really big."
I would guess from that that the expected announcement of results from Prof Taylor will be that the ND has been a great success. He defines success by loss of liver and pancreatic fat reversing diabetes T2. We have no MRI scanners as he does, but the last lot of his trial subjects lost an average of 15% of their weight. That can be a guide for us. Subjects lost that without diabetic drugs or a low carb diet. (Prof Taylor has never mentioned low carb).And in doing so they brought their BG s down to Non Diabetic levels. This is what I am aiming to do on ND, lose 15% of my starting weight.

In the Protocol for the Newcastle Diet Prof. Taylor states that there will be a food reintroduction phase and that the diet should be based on the 'Eatwell' guidelines. Personally I wouldn't want to eat that amount of carbs - so after I finish ND I will continue to low carb.

 

[DCUKMod]

In the Protocol for the Newcastle Diet Prof. Taylor states that there will be a food reintroduction phase and that the diet should be based on the 'Eatwell' guidelines. Personally I wouldn't want to eat that amount of carbs - so after I finish ND I will continue to low carb.

Chook - Is that reintroduction phase in this latest piece?

When I was in correspondence with Professor Taylor in 2014, I asked him about a follow-on way of eating. His was response was that he he didn't give any guidance, except that it would be likely the general intalke would be lower than before the ND, but did say that LC was quite popular.

To be clear, I had told him in my email where I posed the question that I LC'd, so I would say that his response was as much likely to be acknowledging it was fine to LC, rather than a "from the rooftops" endorsement of it.

 

[Mike d]

Yes. It will never be cured with my understanding. But I will be really really glad if it doesn't progress. Really, I am very happy that I have diabetes... not because I am sadist, but I find myself healthier. It made me realised that what I did in the past was somewhat not right. But what worries me now is - no matter what I did now, I face progression in the end, and complications do find me in the end.

I really hope that someone right here, I only need one... to tell me that... "dude, you can control it. As long as you control it, you will be fine."

Consider yourself told ... all things being equal, if weight, diet and exercise are optimum (or close to it) you'd be damned unlucky to have complications

 

[Decruz]

Consider yourself told ... all things being equal, if weight, diet and exercise are optimum (or close to it) you'd be damned unlucky to have complications

Thanks. This is another motivation inoculation. Guess i need that all the time

 

[Chook]

Chook - Is that reintroduction phase in this latest piece?

When I was in correspondence with Professor Taylor in 2014, I asked him about a follow-on way of eating. His was response was that he he didn't give any guidance, except that it would be likely the general intalke would be lower than before the ND, but did say that LC was quite popular.

To be clear, I had told him in my email where I posed the question that I LC'd, so I would say that his response was as much likely to be acknowledging it was fine to LC, rather than a "from the rooftops" endorsement of it.

The date on the study Protocol PDF document is 2016 - here's a link: http://www.directclinicaltrial.org.uk/protocol/DiRECTProtocol.pdf

The bit about the food reintroduction phase is at the bottom of page 5 in the left hand column. I know the Eatwell diet is bad for me - its what I was eating when I was diagnosed - so I will be carrying on with LC, like I have been since starting my real food version of ND. I'm sure some people can eat all those carbs but I'm definitely not one of them.

Most interesting to me is that everyone talks about the ND lasting eight weeks (me included) but the Protocol says it should last from twelve to twenty weeks if the individual hasn't lost 15kg when the twelve weeks are up or if they want to lose more.

 

[Kentoldlady1]

Sorry to be a bit stupid here, but can I ask you all a question about the ND? Is the assumption that it doesn't really matter where the calories come from (carbs,fats or protein) it is just how much you eat that is key? And that as long as the weight comes off that is all that counts?

I am very happy on lchf and am losing weight, but have tried a higher carb food twice since I got my metre. Both times it was not pretty.

I have ( just about) lost 15% of my starting weight and am clearly still t2. Not complaining, happy to be much healthier, but wonder if going vlc would have been better. I am still.overweight and will be still trying to lose weight and don't think its a good idea for me to add more carbs, even if I keep the total number of calories very low.

Sorry to be dense!!