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Reversing T2

Discussion in 'Type 2 Diabetes' started by Adz444, Oct 28, 2017.

  1. Adz444

    Adz444 Type 2 · Active Member

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    Hi everyone, me again

    After being diagnosed last month I’ve spent a lot of time reading the forums, various diets and literature about the possibility of reversing or the very least managing the condition through diet/lifestyle changes.

    I was wondering does time have an effect on improving/reversing diabetes? What I mean by this is since being diagnosed I’ve already lost 12kg now by going to the gym and changing my eating habits and am happy with how things are going but it’s going to take a while to get to my target weight and I as wondering if you have a better chance of reversing the condition by doing a rapid weight loss plan like the Newcastle diet?

    I’ve done the NHS milk diet in the past and lost 6 1/2 stone in just over 2 months which was a record back in 2005 so I can do that sort of rapid diet so basically what I’m asking is if it’s better to lose weight quickly or slowly?
     
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  2. Adz444

    Adz444 Type 2 · Active Member

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    I hope that makes sense
     
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  3. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Yes it makes sense.. but it depends on you. You say you lost a lot of weight in the past but I'm guessing you regained most if not all of it.. ? maybe more even?
    If you decide that Low Carb is the way for you most of us look on it as a life change not a "diet" in the classic sense (i.e. something that you only do for a limited time). The ND is fine if
    1) you can be hungry for 8 weeks
    2) can maintain the weight loss ..
    I'm sceptical that many can do that so the symptoms just come back along with the weight.
    I look on my LCHF non-diet as my way of eating for the rest of my hopefully extended life.
    I also lost quite a bit of weight pretty fast without feeling in any way deprived following this regime and who doesn't prefer a nice steak over a shake?
     
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  4. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 · Oracle

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    The weight loss dieticians say that 2lbs a week is an ideal target on the basis that you have more chance of keeping it off afterwards. I can't imagine it makes a great deal of difference as long as you lose it and keep it off, but in the end which is more important to you, weight loss or glucose control?
     
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  5. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    Hi and welcome @Adz444

    the evidence from the Newcastle Diet (all info available on the Newcastle University website) seems to show that the chances of reversal deteriorate the longer the person has type 2 diabetes. Also that if the type 2 has diabetes caused by a fatty liver, then the amount of weight lost from the liver to allow the reversal is small - but obviously very significant! Body fat goes too, of course, but the crucial fat is the liver fat.

    as for speed of loss, prof. Taylor has himself said that the period of rapid weight loss and use of meal replacement shakes were designed to allow controlled study conditions. He supports weight loss by any method, and at any speed.

    so i would suggest that you consider your own preferences. if rapid weight loss worked for you, then it may work again. For me, I had a 10-15 year period of yoyo dieting, and I'm never doing that again!

    there are lots of options - 800 cal of real food (blood sugar diet), 800 cals of shakes and veg (Newcastle Diet), any variation on fasting (see Jason Fung's blog called Intensive Dietary Management), and then there is the whole gamut of weightwatchers, slimmingworld, variations on low carbing, and so on
    - although i would encourage you to be as careful of blood glucose control as you are of calories. :)
     
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    #5 Brunneria, Oct 28, 2017 at 4:14 PM
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2017
  6. Chuckannuck

    Chuckannuck I reversed my Type 2 · Member

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    This is similar to my experience with "diets" vs LCHF. I've done the diet yoyo and for me "diets" were just a way to take a one year detour through misery and deprivation to end up back at the same place. (I understand typical diet success rate is stated as abt 5% and there is some indication that's optimistic.) I don't like those odds and don't want to repeat the diet merry go round. Again, just speaking for me, LCHF meant a sustainable change in eating without the deprivation. Choice was easy. Especially since I felt a lot better and got off the meds.
     
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  7. Adz444

    Adz444 Type 2 · Active Member

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    Thanks for the replies, I weighed about 140kg when I lost that weight last time around, my mum got seriously ill not long after and I comfort ate a lot and yes I put it all back on and more

    I find dieting pretty easy lucky enough as I used to be semi pro at football and there is an athlete somewhere under all this fat lol.

    I am finding the dieting pretty easy but like it’s been said there is a difference between losing weight and lowering my blood/sugar, I have been eating relatively what I want in small potions except for junk food, sweets, fizzy drinks etc and it’s still taking me a bit of time to work out yes a food is low calorie compared to what I used to eat but I may not be the best for my condition.

    Since I have had my meter I’ve generally stayed under 6 but have gone up to 7 but still under the +2 from the pre meal test so I think I’m doing ok with what I’m eating.

    If I can carry on with a steady weight loss and still have a good chance of reversing/ or managing my condition without meds then I’ll be happy, I just wanted to know if the longer I took to lose weight if that lowered my chances of reversing etc
     
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  8. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    By the way I haven't really counted calories on my journey from 145kg to now 97kg.
     
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  9. NoCrbs4Me

    NoCrbs4Me I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    "NHS milk diet"? Sounds awful.
     
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  10. Adz444

    Adz444 Type 2 · Active Member

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    Yep I did the milk diet, I was only meant to lose a bit to qualify for a gastric band but I lost so much in the first month that they kept me on it.

    I found the first few weeks hard but as soon as the weight started flying off and you could really see the difference the hunger pains got pushed aside as I loved looking in the mirror as I was quite a good looking lad when I was younger
     
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  11. Adz444

    Adz444 Type 2 · Active Member

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    That’s awesome buddy
     
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  12. caroline_92

    caroline_92 Type 2 · Active Member

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    I have also never counted a single calorie, just went low carb and ate to my meter to reduce blood sugar spikes and understand what type of foods were good for me. In 3 months I got my HbA1c down from 63 to a 'normal' 38, lost 15kg to go from being overweight to 'normal'. That was 6 years ago & I am still as normal as I will ever be!
    So I agree with a few other posters that finding a way to eat to control your blood sugar over the longer term is key. Then the weight will come off at the right pace for you. How long this takes will vary from person to person...
    Good luck :)
     
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    #12 caroline_92, Oct 28, 2017 at 5:29 PM
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2017
  13. Grateful

    Grateful Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I would second all those who are suggesting low-carb. It is not the only option, but (in my opinion) seems to make the most sense for T2s because it's not just a way of losing weight, but also to bring your blood glucose under control. It is however a lifetime commitment, not just a "diet" to lose weight.

    There are several caveats. You did not say whether you are taking any diabetes drugs. If you are, a low-carb diet may need to be balanced with medication dosage, in coordination with your doctor. It doesn't work for everyone, but it seems to work for quite a few people including me and a sizable portion of the people on this forum. Finally, it is controversial and you may get some resistance from your doctor or nurse.

    Edited to add: I did not go LCHF, but rather, LCLF (low-carb, low-fat) plus portion control (no calorie-counting, but that was the general result). I stuck it out for nearly three months until I got down to the weight I wanted, losing 10KG. At that point I abandoned the portion control. I now eat as much as I want, but have only slightly increased the fats -- and the fats are mostly in things like avocados, meat, and nuts. It remains "very low carb."
     
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    #13 Grateful, Oct 28, 2017 at 5:54 PM
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2017
  14. Tannith

    Tannith · Well-Known Member

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    2) With the internet its dead easy to maintain the weight loss. You just Google BMR calculator and feed in your details (new weight etc). Hey presto it tells you your Basal Metabolic Rate ie how many calories to eat without getting hungry - exactly the amount you need to eat to avoid putting the weight back on.
     
  15. ringi

    ringi Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    This does not work, as "Basal Metabolic Rate" is defferent for each person even after you have taken the person's weight into account. Also "Basal Metabolic Rate" changes depending on what someone has been eating over the last few weeks/months.

    This is before you get onto the issues with calories not being a valid way to measure how much "usable" energy different food gives us.
     
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  16. Resurgam

    Resurgam Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I did not even bother to think about my weight when I was diagnosed - all I focused on was my blood glucose.
    Having always struggled to maintain my weight when eating a 'normal' diet I have always been a natural low carber in the face of opposition - at one point I had reached 264 lb. I am not certain when that was in the last few years, I have memory problems now - but I am 3 stone lighter at the moment.
    For me low carb foods are what I'd like to eat from now on.
    I checked my blood glucose to see if I should eat a dessert after dinner this evening - and got a reading of 6mmol/l. It was a bit before two hours after eating - but - I mean - 6?
    I am approaching one year from diagnosis, but I am now eating exactly as I ate for the decades before that when I could get away with it. It doesn't seem to be any effort - I try to feel that I am really lucky - but it is rather puzzling - far too easy.
     
  17. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    As excess weight, esp around the waistline, is a symptom of T2 then weight loss is secondary to better control of bg and hopefully lowering IR. Weight loss through calorific restriction is fine but it is treating the symptom rather than attempting to ameliorate the cause of the excess weight.
     
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  18. ianpspurs

    ianpspurs Type 2 · Active Member

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    This discussion is fascinating to me right now. My signature shows that I have come part way on a journey over the past 2.5 years via lowering carbs. (My average is 40 gms per day but I still feel guilty this is too high.)
    I am none too sure that i feel comfortable with high fat but meals/days with around 70% of a 1900 cal diet seems to at least put my BG levels in a place that makes me feel less uncomfortable. I still obsess about never going above 6.5 after meals or having a fasting level over 5.5 - I do wonder at what stage, if ever, i will feel at ease about all this.
    Two other points intrigue me. Guzzler makes an excellent point about weight around the waist so why have I never had a waist to hip ratio taken by my doctor or diabetic nurse?. My BMI now ranges from 23 to 23.3 but I am not too pleased with that - however an early piece I read on reversing diabetes suggested not going too low. Those who seem to me from their track record to have the best success in this mission appear to have quite low BMI. So my second query is do people feel there is a natural weight for humans? I have never been able to get below BMI 22 (11 st 7 Lbs) even after a really bad case of Chicken Pox. Training for marathons, playing good level rugby and cricket my best weight was 12 St 7 Lbs 23.7.
    Long rambling post so feel free to ignore but the issues being raised above resonate with me atm.
     
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    #18 ianpspurs, Oct 30, 2017 at 9:05 AM
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2017
  19. woodywhippet61

    woodywhippet61 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    My A1c has come down from 67 to 26 in 3 months. My BMI was 39 and is now 31 and I am still classified as obese. Last week I asked my dn what weight she thought that I ought to be and she said the weight that I was happy at. If I could do everything that I wanted to do (which I can) then there was no problem with my remaining at the weight that I currently am.
     
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  20. ringi

    ringi Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    @woodywhippet61 BMI is now considered to be of little use in deciding what the best weight is for a person. Waist measurement is a lot more useful. Your nurse is being very wise. (A good test is if your weight is stopping you fealinng like being active, then it is an issue.)
     
    #20 ringi, Oct 30, 2017 at 11:09 AM
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2017
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