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Reversing T2

Discussion in 'Type 2 Diabetes' started by Adz444, Oct 28, 2017.

  1. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 · Oracle

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    For the life of me I can't understand what is wrong with your last set of figures! If you convert them to mmol/l the difference is miniscule. It is a rise of 0.3mmol/l on approx a 3 month average, and still perfectly in the non-diabetic range. I think you may find most of us fluctuate by a little bit each time.

    Have you done an OGTT at all? A few of us did one at home a while ago. They are quite revealing.
     
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  2. ianpspurs

    ianpspurs Type 2 · Active Member

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    Thanks Bluetit1802, I just have this obsessive nature to always "win" better, higher faster etc. Yes, I read about the OGT but I reckon my personality traits would have me obsessing if it revealed anything outside of excellent - LOL
    To give a clue about my desire to be as good as I can, when I played good level cricket if I was ever bowled out twice in a season my family knew the winter would be hell!
     
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  3. Tannith

    Tannith · Well-Known Member

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    The 15% came from Prof Taylor's first two trials of the Newcastle diet. All who finished the diet succeeded in getting down to their personal fat threshold and on average they lost 15% of their weight at diagnosis. That is only a rough guide for us. However those subjects were given all sorts of tests and in particular put through a super model of an MRI scanner which revealed that they had lost all their liver and pancreatic fat.
     
  4. Anthony1738

    Anthony1738 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi heres a good read for you http://www.ncl.ac.uk/media/wwwnclac.../files/Diabetes reversal information 2017.pdf

    Type 2 is caused by fat stored in the liver and pancreas, once you loose this fat the diabetes goes away, but if you put the fat back on your liver and pancreas the diabetes will re-apear, but as Prof Taylor explains not all fat people will get diabetes, it all depends on your personal fat threshold, I for instance, discovered that my fat threshold is at BMI 23 and if I keep at or below this figure my diabetes is non existent, no matter what I eat, but I achieved the required weight loss quickly by eating a low carb diet. Hope this helps. PS I cut down on the beer also.
     
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  5. ringi

    ringi Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Remember it s fat threshold not a BMI threshold. So if I go to the gym a lot, do lots of resistance training and increase my BMI while losing body fat, it does not inclease the risk of by Type2 comming back.
     
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  6. ianpspurs

    ianpspurs Type 2 · Active Member

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    Hi Anthony1738
    Thanks for the link to Jason Fung video. I have watched a couple already and found them to be full of common sense. Going back to some of my earlier queries, the videos helped quite a lot especially the waist to height metric. Currently working through his fasting videos/tips.
     
  7. Fleegle

    Fleegle Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    So I have a few opinions on the ND. Firstly I agree that he has said categorically that it does not have to be shake based. I do though think that he has said it is an 8 week VLCD diet at least. And this is also supported in the book the blood sugar diet. The science is that you have to go low cal to remove the fat from first the liver then force the body to lose the fat in the pancreas.

    I do not agree that you need to keep all of the weight off. I think that would be impossible but of course you cannot put all of the weight back on that would be silly. You need to keep below your personal fat threshold. That is the point at which your body starts to put the fat back into the pancreas.

    Although there is evidence that the longer you have T2 the lower the chances of reversal - there is also a wealth of stories that have been sent to him with people who have had T2 for a very long time that reversed it.

    So my opinion would be to anyone - it is only 8 weeks. Anyone can do anything for 8 weeks if they want to. The LCHF is a way of life - forever. That is much much harder surely.
     
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  8. Fleegle

    Fleegle Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I am a little frustrated with the above post - so I want to push back on it - I hope it does not appear rude I just do not think it is balanced or evidence based.

    So I am not sure that @bulkbiker has tried the ND and if he has and these are his experiences of it - then I apologise.

    As someone who has tried it or is trying it (5 more days) - I want to debunk some myths if I can to make sure your questions are answered.

    1. You are not hungry for 8 weeks that is a complete exaggeration and not based on evidence.
    I can base the evidence of my own experience. You are hungry some of the time but probably on a percentage basis less than 5% of the time. Possibly even 1%. I have had a few days here and there where I could of done with something to eat - and guess what - the same was true when I was on LCHF. Perhaps I was just fanciful. I would also add that most of the posts I have read from people who tried it report a similar hunger pattern. I have not read a post, and perhaps I have missed it from someone who tried it whom said they were hungry for 8 weeks.

    2. I do not think you need to maintain the weight loss in any different way to any different way of eating. If you eat too much full stop - even on a LCHF - then you are probably going to make your T2 worse. There are plenty of posts from people who have tried LCHF who lose some weight then put it back on plus more. I am sure that is because in some way the diet of their configuration of it is not quite right but the LCHF is by no way a magic bullet to weight loss.

    3. I would add - what is 8 weeks compared to a life time? The LCHF is for life. If you are really happy to do that and have great personal control and BG control and do not want to try an 8 week experiment that might not even test your resolve, then perhaps the ND is not for you.

    4. On the weight - I have done a lot of research on this and my understanding is that you will put some weight back on at the end of the ND - some may not but a lot will - and there are ways of controlling this (the 5/2 as an example, Or why not LCHF which works wonders - but whilst you need to be really careful you do not put a lot back on - it is the fatty liver and pancreas you need to avoid so a little bit more weight (a little!!!!) is probably ok.

    5. Lastly - I notice that posts get configured depending on the debate point. Sometimes people post that you do not need to be on shakes to do the ND - then sometimes you get the shakes comment from the same posters. If you want to do the ND on steaks - fill your boots. As many of the well researched people often say (and I include @bulkbiker here) you do not need to do the shakes. I chose to. There are lots of examples of people who would prefer a shake to a steak.

    At this point you would think I am not a massive fan of the LCHF - but I am - I think it is brilliant. But I like things to be in balance and I see absolutely nothing wrong with the science based approach of the ND and why on earth if you can and want to you would not spend 8 weeks giving it a go.

    Be aware though - just like everything else - it might not work for you it does not work for everyone.
     
  9. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Point 1 agree completely although 8 weeks of being at least a bit hungry is quite hard for most people and I would imagine that most fall at the first week or two without some kind of support

    Point 2 I disagree... what is hard about eating great food that is satisfying and delicious? It's all about mindset I think..
     
  10. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Looks like we cross posted..
     
  11. Fleegle

    Fleegle Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Well I can only speak for me not for everyone.
    At this moment in time I would love a take away with sweet and sour pork balls and a bowl of rice - a nice sticky sauce followed by some lovely banana fritters and custard. That to me is good food to - I am hoping at some point some for of reversal will allow me to do this because - personally - I am going to find sticking to the LCHF diet a real pain all of the time.
     
  12. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    That's what I mean about mindset.. you are thinking of LCHF as restrictive.. change that around and think of it as healthy and yummy and you'll find it so much easier. I can remember the bright red sauce on those pork balls and to be honest now it turns my stomach a bit.. I'd far rather have some crispy pork belly without the sugar.. but as always each to their own.
     
  13. Fleegle

    Fleegle Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I noted you posted once that when your hubby brings home a Chinese take away....
    I have got the mindset - I really have - but I do miss a lot of things - I do - I cannot help it. In a way I wish I was built with your determination and control it is awesome. Christmas is coming and you should tasts my Mum's Christmas cake - that would test a saint.
     
  14. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Not me I'm afraid as I always hated Christmas cake... and I'm afraid that hubby is of Chinese origin and would never ever touch sweet and sour pork balls.. they are about as Chinese as mushy peas... crispy duck however is something else completely.

    Maybe looking on some of those foods as "poison" would help... oops I did it again...
     
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  15. woodywhippet61

    woodywhippet61 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Are you hoping that by doing the ND you will be able to eat as you used to?

    Personally I don't see why eating LCHF stops you from eating Christmas Cake as long as you don't do it everyday. Just 'cause someone eats LCHF most days doesn't mean that they can't have the odd meal that isn't.

    My problem with eating sugars/carbs is that they are addictive to me and after eating them I'd have to deal with the cravings to eat more of them. Constant nagging cravings to eat puts me off eating them.
     
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  16. woodywhippet61

    woodywhippet61 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Can you NOT mention crispy duck please! Fortunately for me I also have never liked Christmas cake or mince pies or that most revolting thing christmas pudding. I don't even like turkey. So that's sprouts, roast potatoes and cranberry sauce left. Oh ........ that's just sprouts to look forwards too.:)
     
  17. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    cheesy sprouts with bacon..? does that help just a bit maybe?
     
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  18. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    But surely the things that you miss are what brought you here in the first place?
    That's what I don't quite understand... you know they gave you Type 2 but still want them?
    That's just illogical or am I missing something?
     
  19. ringi

    ringi Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    A 36hr fast, so you don't eat after the Christmas day meal until the evening of boxing day could allow a lot of freedom..... Doing an 18hr fast the day before, so you stop eating midday on Christmas Eve may allow the icing on the cake.
     
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  20. endgame

    endgame Type 2 · Active Member

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    Hi all, I too chose shakes to carry out the nd and agree with the above post that shakes will not suit everyone when trying out the nd, my take on it is that it makes it easier to check the required calories and is convenient if not eat/drinking at home, after my first week the hunger did disappear, now I'm into week 4 and feel good.

    Will it reverse my t2, don't know but my goals are to be med free and keep my bg under control which I was not doing properly before finding out about the nd and BSD, this forum as a wealth of information and should be a requirement when first diagnosed with t2 to visit, I was so happy to find the site a will always wonder were I would be if I had be given this web address when first diagnosed. (Few years ago)

    I to will be going onto the lchf when finished the nd, just in time for Christmas :)
    Regards.
     
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