Serious Reminder

Cloudlesssky

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273
Type of diabetes
Type 2
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Tablets (oral)
Hi guys,
I've been a diagnosed T2 since September 2014.
As you can see from my stats I was very high ... up to 30 at initial testing.
Things have been going fine, Hba1c down to 44 at 6 month check.
So why oh why has my eating been so completely out of control over the last two weeks?
I feel as if I need a really good telling off rather than encouraging!
Can anyone please remind me of the reasons I really need to be watching my carbohydrates as well as my sugars.
Why it is that losing weight is so important for me as a diabetic ( I need to lose 4 stone) - and why exercise is a must.
I know it's all basic stuff.
I know I could go to the diabetic nurse.
But in all honesty, we know that this community is usually the best place to get support (not medical advice, I know)
Perhaps I just need a good re-focus as if I were a newbie.
Can any of you lovely people help?
Thank you!
 
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catinahat

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3,408
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Diet only
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Hello BeeGee
The prognosis in people with type 2 diabetes varies. It depends on how well an individual modifies his or her risk of complications.

Heart attack,
stroke
kidney disease
Disability due to blindness
amputation
heart disease
stroke
nerve damage
Some people with type 2 diabetes become dependent on dialysis treatments because of kidney failure.

Living with diabetes is hard, but living with the consequences of poor control is much harder
When I fall off the wagon, I think of the above list and jump back on again.
 
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Brunneria

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21,889
Type of diabetes
Type 2
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Hi

I think one of the difficult things to get your head around when first diagnosed, is that this is for life. Type 1s often get a profound shock in the form of awful symptoms, a rapid education and a grinding regime of injections and blood testing. Scary. Life changing. Impossible to ignore.

Type 2s on the other hand usually get a short, almost casual diagnosis, instructions to lose weight, a disinterested shrug, and a vague promise of future foot and eye appointments. It is often a bolt from the blue. Yes, there were symptoms. Yes, you didn't feel great. But life threatening? A life sentence? Really?!?

Even if the numbers are high (as yours were) if you find sensible advice (like you usually get here), things settle down. You feel better. In fact, you feel fine. Better than for ages, actually. And your BG settles down too.

It's hard to maintain those new behaviours and eating habits when you don't see anything to justify them. You feel so well, a few (insert decadent carb treat of choice) won't do much harm, will it? It's not like you are going to do it again tomorrow. Or the day after. Er... Oops. That's 2 weeks of treats now...

I think we've all been there. And (if you get carb cravings) we forget how bad they were very quickly.

I can only suggest you do a few things:
Test religiously before and after every 'unhelpful' food choice - it's astonishing how motivating those high numbers can be.
Google pics of diabetic amputations - that'll show you the result of sustained high BGs in the long term.
Make sure that what you are eating is enjoyable and sustainable - I find herbs, spices and LC treats make the difference between boredom and failure, or enjoyable success.

But the main thing to remember is that this is a long game.
Initial enthusiasm only gets you so far. The good habits and mindset that you develop now are things that will carry you through. I've been eating reduced carbs for decades now. Believe me, this is the voice of experience.

Hope that helps.
 
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yvonne49

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43
Type of diabetes
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Diet only
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Glucose spikes
Hi,I was diagnosed May last year at 12% hba1c.I reduced it down quickly to 5.8% in 3-4 months.I lost about 3 stone as well.I was in absolute panic having been told by my Doc I would be on insulin in a few years.I mostly ate low carb and exercised a few times a day.It was the panic and terror of the consequences that kept me going.

It's keeping it going that is more difficult.Eventually my panic faded and I relaxed when I got my numbers down.I put on a little of the weight and slacked off a bit.But I am back on it,slowly trying to get my last 1 and a half to 2 stone off.I keep my carbs as low as possible because when I eat too many and spike my toes become numb etc.This scares me back on track because I am terrified of losing a toe etc.I tell myself every day that avoiding complications and deterioration is much more important than stuffing my face with junk food like I did before.Also I feel more healthy and fit compared to before when I was tired and ill.

I will admit it's not an easy road but I'm sure it's far easier than living with the complications and progressing every year.
I wish you all the best,just take it a day at a time and remind yourself what could happen if you don't control it. :)

Like Brunneria says,google diabetic foot ulcers,gangrene and amputations.I find that really gets me back on track if I start eating carbs and junk. :bigtears:
 
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Messages
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Type of diabetes
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Can anyone please remind me of the reasons I really need to be watching my carbohydrates as well as my sugars.
Why it is that losing weight is so important for me as a diabetic ( I need to lose 4 stone) - and why exercise is a must.
Thank you!

It's the blood sugar that does damage and the best ways to keep them low is not to eat carbs in such quantities in the first place and walk it off when you do. Using the sugar helps to keep it low. S'obvious ennit.

A correct weight is healthy for anyone but if it is visceral fat (fat gut) then the sugar processing doesn't work so well.
 
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Winnie53

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I joined a local support group for people who have diabetes type 2. A few have diabetic neuropathy now. It's painful, and the available treatments only help so much.

I wanted to help them so I read a book on treatments known to reverse diabetic neuropathy in some people, then I ordered a second book that looked equally promising (but haven't read it yet).

What I learned is that neuropathy often can be prevented and can sometimes be reversed if treated before too much damage has been done, but there's a point where there's too much damage... I read that people typically develop neuropathy in their 60's, 70's, and 80's, but some earlier.

I brought the books to share at the next meeting even though I knew it might be too late for those folks, but I have no way of knowing one way or the other, so shared the books in the hope that perhaps one person would be helped.

I think what keeps me motivated is learning about diabetes, how to manage it, and it's possible complications.

Immediately following diagnosis, I began reading books on diabetes, I bought a meter and test strips, which I continue to use a minimum 4 times a day, and I began the low carb diet and a daily walking regimen. Additionally, I scheduled an eye exam and had lab work done to determine the extent of the damage I'd done to my eyes, kidneys, liver, arteries, and heart. I don't think at this point there are any tests to determine how much damage I did to my brain. :(

Perhaps, it would help if you did a few of those things too. Without a good understanding of how you're doing now, and what could happen in the future based on the choices you're making now, I think I'd have difficulty maintaining my progress too. :)
 
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Winnie53

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It's the blood sugar that does damage and the best ways to keep them low is not to eat carbs in such quantities in the first place and walk it off when you do.

I've started doing this too. I go for a walk after dinner if my blood glucose is higher than I want it to be. Walking just one mile, which takes me 20 minutes, makes a difference. Using my car, I figured out how far I needed to walk, so it's just a matter of putting my shoes on and walking out the door. :)
 
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hankjam

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Sometimes a jolt will come a long and refocus...
I thought I was doing okay, BG under control HBAc1 looking good...
Eye check for glasses, optician took snaps, compared to last year, no change, showed me images of when it goes bad.... not nice.
NHS eye check up 3 weeks later (I know, it's the way it worked out).... background retinopathy in right eye.... Yikes... though strangely my doc said there was not a lot I could do about it....
So maintaining controls on BG, Blood pressure and hopefully lipids...
Walking when you can is a good thing.
 
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DeejayR

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I feel as if I need a really good telling off rather than encouraging!

You've been very naughty. Go and sit in the corner.

Will that do? ;)
Good advice from others here, no need for me to go on. You know what to do.
 
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4ratbags

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3,334
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Its easy to fall off the wagon sometimes, I've done it a few times myself. As long as you can get yourself back on track you will be fine. Unfortunately once you have diabetes it is with you for life so sometimes it can seem a bit daunting and you think why bother but it is your health and it is important. If you go through some bad patches that is fine, it is how well you are doing most of the time that matters.
 
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Winnie53

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[Edited by Winnie53]

I've been a diagnosed T2 since September 2014. As you can see from my stats I was very high ... up to 30 at initial testing. Can anyone please remind me of the reasons I really need to be watching my carbohydrates as well as my sugars. Why it is that losing weight is so important for me as a diabetic ( I need to lose 4 stone) - and why exercise is a must. Perhaps I just need a good re-focus as if I were a newbie.

BeeGee, after thinking more, I read your OP again.

I've been reading Robert Lustig, M.D.'s book, Fat Chance: Beating the Odds Against Sugar, Processed Food, Obesity, and Disease - (he's a pediatric endocrinologist and researcher at University of California, San Francisco). He makes the argument that physiology drives obesity. I think he's right. Here are a few quotes from chapter 18: Altering Your Hormonal Environment for your consideration:

Page 210: "Felix Kreier in Amsterdam argues that 'behavior' is the sum output of the genetic, hormonal, and biochemical inputs to the central nervous system that create specific drives.(2) What we call 'behavior' is actually the cognitive inhibition on those biochemical drives. Yes, you can choose to ignore your cravings and skip the cookie. But can you really keep this up 24/7/365, when a hormone or a neurotransmitter is telling you to act and when the signal gets stronger with time?" He continues... "In one generation, our sugar glut has tweaked related hormones and neural pathways to our detriment. Of course there are exceptions to this rule. But if the majority of us were able consistently to ignore our physiologic responses screaming for that doughnut, there wouldn't be any need for this book. Your body will always work against you, and you're doomed to fail."

Page 211: "Face it: we're stuck with our hormones and our biochemistry. Many suffer from functional hormonal problems in one of the brain's eating pathways--hunger (chapter 4), reward (chapter 5), stress (chapter 6), or a combination of all three."

Page 211-212: "The goal of obesity management is to reverse the hormonal dysfunction by accomplishing the following:

1. Get the insulin down--to reduce your body fat and improve leptin resistance.
2. Get the ghrelin down--to reduce hunger.
3. Get the PYY up--to hasten satiety (the feeling of being full).
4. Get the cortisol down--to reduce perceived stress and hunger, and reduce deposition of energy into visceral fat."


I was listening to a interview with JJ Virgin yesterday, author of the book, The Sugar Impact Diet. She is a board certified nutrition specialist who has been coaching clients for 30 years. She, like Lustig, is brilliant, and has a tremendous gift for communicating key concepts in a way that's succinct and easy to understand by anyone. (I'm reading her book next. Virgin and Lustig have greatly expanded my understanding of why the low carb high fat (LCHF) diet works for both weight loss and reducing insulin and glucose levels).

To drive home her point of how addictive sugar is, she shared a study in which rats were, I assume alternately, given morphine or Oreo cookies. Interestingly, both lit up the same area of the brain. When the rats were then given the choice of either, they chose the Oreo cookies.

Page 217: "There are two ways to look at how our environment relates to obesity. The first one says that genes and behavior interact to drive weight gain. But both genes and behavior are unalterable; so in this paradigm, all is lost. The second says that behavior is the output of hormones (see chapter 4) and hormones are responsive to the environment. Obesity is a hormonal problem, and hormones are alterable, so in hormones there is hope."

Going back to Lustig's four goals, I'll try to relate each to what I've personally experienced on the LCHF diet over the last 4 months in my next post.
 
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Robbity

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Just try to remember you're making a life saving lifestyle change - you're not messing around with a fix-it-quick short term diet.

I value my eyesight far above any possible high sugar/carb treat, and having had a serious previous but non-diabetic eyesight threat, this is now the only reminder I might need if I ever decided to slack off or stray... You need to find your own similar motivation to take your future diabetic life seriously too.

Robbity
 
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Winnie53

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Continued...

First a few definitions from the glossary of Lustig's book: "Insulin - the hormone that tells the liver to store glycogen, the fat cells to store energy, and interferes with the leptin signal to increase food intake." "Ghrelin - a hormone made by the stomach that conveys a signal of hunger to the hypothalamus." "Peptide YY (PYY) - a hormone made by the small intestine, in response to food, that signals satiety to the hypothalamus." "Cortisol - the stress hormone that acutely mobilizes sugar for use, but that chronically lays down visceral fat."

1. Get the insulin down--to reduce your body fat and improve leptin resistance.
My experience of the fastest way to do this on the low carbohydrate high fat (LCHF) diet is to eliminate sugar, eliminate or greatly limit grains, starchy vegetables, and legumes, and limit fruit. Not easily done, but so incredibly freeing. After a few days of eliminating all of these foods, for the first time in my life, my hourly cravings for sugar and carbohydrates significantly lessened. Previously, for years and years, I'd thought about what I was going to eat next every 1 to 2 hours. It was awful.

Shifting from having something sweet after lunch and dinner was challenging. Two things helped greatly: Eating small amounts of dark chocolate with 70%, later 85%, cocoa after lunch and dinner, and later replacing the "sweet" ritual with the new ritual of having green tea after lunch, and a herbal, typically chamomile, or a decaffeinated tea after dinner solved the problem. (I later learned that green tea's effects on obesity and type 2 is being studied - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3689013/ I'll explain why I think it was helpful in the PYY section.

Initially, I was still craving corn chips topped with melted cheddar cheese. At the time, I thought is was the grains I was craving, so I'd eat 4 corn chips with cheese a day as a survival tactic. Later I realized it was the salt. After I added adequate amounts of salt back into my diet, that craving disappeared. A few weeks into the diet, my body was still screaming for some type of sugary carbohydrate with fat, so I began allowing myself to have one gluten-free peanut butter cookie from the freezer after dinner every 1 to 3 days, but it spiked my blood glucose to much, so after two weeks or so, I gave up the cookies.

JJ Virgin also spoke about how she transitions her clients from being a "sugar burner" to a "fat burner". What she finds works best with her clients is adding something before taking away something.

During week one, she encourages her clients to begin tapering off sugar, and to begin increasing "clean, lean proteins" and "healthy fats". She has found that consuming protein, fat, and fiber - (I assume from whole foods such as non-starchy vegetables and nuts) - is what's needed to get off sugar. She explains that the protein increases the neurotransmitters serotonin and dopamine, so we begin to feel better. Fats reduce inflammation (and I'll add here increase satiety). And fiber slows the blood glucose response. She adds, if you stop sugar suddenly, your "energy dies, your brain cries, and you have to reach for the sugar again."

During week two and three she has her clients eliminate all sources of sugar from their diet including fruit and berries, and I'm assuming all grains too, "to reawaken the taste buds". Clients report less gas and bloating, fatigue, brain fog, and moodiness, also improved ability to lose weight around the waist. She talks about one 64 year old woman who feared she was developing dementia due to her forgetfulness and inability to maintain focus throughout the day. During week two and three, her ability to focus was completely restored.

At the beginning of week four, she has her clients test "sweet foods" again. They're surprised by their heightened ability to taste foods now, and how sugary foods are now "too sweet". I still remember the first time I had a blueberry a month or so into the LCHF diet. I was no longer just tasting the sugar, I was now intensely experiencing all its flavors. She talks about how sugar dulls our sense of taste. I found this to be true. I enjoy food so much more now.

Lustig states that the "best way to reduce insulin release is to limit the exposure of the pancreas to the agent that drives insulin up, which is glucose." He recommends "cutting back on refined carbohydrates"... "limiting your exposure to fat and carbohydrates together (this is why most popular diets work, see chapter 17)"... "reduce sugar consumption"... "remove sugared beverages from your house: soda, juice, Vitamin Water, all of it. Stick with water and milk."... "eat more fiber, which reduces flux to the liver and the insulin response (see chapter 12). Opt for brown foods: beans, lentils, whole grains, nuts, and other legumes. And eat the real stuff: the whole fruits and vegetables rather than their processed or juice derivatives. White food--bread, rice, pasta, potatoes--means the fiber is gone (or, in the case of potatoes, was never there in the first place. Finally, improving muscle insulin sensitivity is very simple--only exercise will do it, because once muscle fat is stored, the only way to get rid of it is to burn it off. Plus, exercise will burn off liver fat as well."

Lustig's recommendations are excellent, but in my opinion, do not go far enough for some type 2 diabetics like myself. At this time, I am too carbohydrate intolerant to eat some of the foods that he lists as okay: fruit, grains, legumes, milk, etc. He asks us to greatly reduce sugar intake, but I've had to eliminate it. This may change as I continue to lose weight and reduce my visceral fat, and reduce my insulin and leptin resistance. Time will tell.

I also was disappointed to learn last night that while Lustig believes the medical condition known as celiac disease is supported by science, he considers non-celiac gluten sensitivity (NCGS), which I have, a fad that will disappear in a few years. So he doesn't "walk on water" because he clearly has not read all of the research on the latter, but then, no one can keep up on all areas of research.

I'll post more tomorrow...

2. Get the ghrelin down--to reduce hunger.




3. Get the PYY up--to hasten satiety (the feeling of being full).




4. Get the cortisol down--to reduce perceived stress and hunger, and reduce deposition of energy into visceral fat."

 
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mekalu2k4

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I do not have diabetes
I have seen many T2D folks in our gym. My observations:

1. T2D and in gym? probably more healthy and disciplined when compared to non-diabetics.
2. it is difficult for T2Ds to put on muscle and easy to add fat. A few T2Ds have proved it wrong too, just that they train harder.
3. T2D and in gym and above 65 and rich? most folks look hale and healthy, vibrant and even naughty. Major difference is - no job pressure as might have retired, and can sleep for long hours. I know one lady in this category, who always says 'eat, sleep, train and have fun'. Naturally her attitude makes her more attractive even at that age, well she is head turner! Most gym members listen to her for tips on workouts and diet etc.

So, it all depends on what you do with your life.
 
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Winnie53

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mekalu2k4, based on your fasting blood glucose of 110 mg/dL (6.1 mmol/L), and your HbA1C of 4.9%, I believe you have extremely well managed pre-diabetes. Welcome to the tribe. :)
 
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mekalu2k4

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I do not have diabetes
mekalu2k4, based on your fasting blood glucose of 110 mg/dL (6.1 mmol/L), and your HbA1C of 4.9%, I believe you have extremely well managed pre-diabetes. Welcome to the tribe

Thanks for calling me 'pre-diabetic'. I believe am T2D or very close to it. My experiences during the years 2006 - 2010:

1. I have seen some black spots around my neck and on top of my shoulders
2. My vision was kind of blurred for few good months on-off
3. Had serious circulation problems for several months, again on-off
4. most 'chubbiest' member of my family.
5. Failed OGTT couple of times during 2010 reading were around 114 and 107 [not sure of the units, but remember these numbers]. Doc told me that I will turn T2D in a few weeks, but my fasting BS never exceeded 100.

Present:
1. Since I started exercising lost some loads of weight. My dad worried when he saw new avatar, which is kind of skinny by 'our standards'. My BS always under 100, black spots gone forever. vision improved and in fact at it is at its best.

2. Then I increased intensity and started marathon training then something happened. Weight loss halted completely. BS gone up. I am suspecting 'liver dump'. Asked on this forum, promptly got educated. - thanks to members here.
3. Then I travelled outside US on work for almost for a week; not exercising much and then eating rice. Not much control on diet, have to eat whatever that was provided [free of cost].
4. As my luck prevailed, there was a free medical camp last week. I was concerned of too much rice and little exercise [20minutes of jogging per day], but to my surprise my BS is 91 !!!! tested twice, people in the camp were nice and permitted second test after couple of days too. precisely [first test 91 and second test 89].

See the pic attached of the test. What you think about this? It happened in the past, BS will go down when I eat more carbs, even weight goes down. But generally I have been on very less carb diet.

But deep inside in my heart, I consider myself as T2D [not really pre], but for the outside world or for this forum I am putting this as non-T2D. May be within few months or years, my condition might progress to show BS above 110. That is why I am on this forum.

Then I want to ask questions on triglycerides. will post that as a separate question.
IMG_20150628_000144.jpg
 
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Winnie53

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Continued...

2. Get
the ghrelin down--to reduce hunger. [and reduce leptin resistance]
Ron Rosedale, M.D. talks a lot about leptin resistance in his book, The Rosedale Diet (2004) which led to me reading Lustig's book, Fat Chance (2013). Rosedale's diet is essentially the LCHF diet, though he, like cardiologists Sinatra and Houston who have also authored books, are a bit more conservative in recommending high amounts of saturated fats. (They recommend monounsaturated fats and some saturated fats).

Rosedale writes, "On the Rosedale Diet, fasting blood levels are greatly reduced long before you see any appreciable weight loss. People are allowed to eat whenever they are hungry [that is foods that are recommended on the Rosedale/LCHF diet], and as frequently as they would like. If they're eating fewer calories, it is only because they are not hungry due to improved leptin resistance. That is why people are able to follow my diet so successfully." (pp. 15)

I had a look around on the internet and found this article by Wendy Myers, CHHC, "a certified holistic health and nutrition coach and founder of Liveto110.com. Her passions include getting you healthy, The Modern Paleo Diet and detoxing your body. Look for her new book coming soon, Roadblocks to Weight Loss."

Her 2013 blog post is titled, "Hormones and Weight Loss - 10 Tips to Biohack Ghrelin and Leptin to Lose Weight". It provides an overview of the hormones ghrelin and leptin, and offers ten tips on to manage them... http://www.healthambition.com/hormones-and-weight-loss-grhelin-leptin-lose-weight/

Lustig's recommendations...

- "...eat breakfast. If you don't...you don't ratchet up your thermic effect of food (see chapter 13), ghrelin levels keep rising as the morning drags on, and you will eat more at lunch, dinner, and into the evening." (pp. 213)

- "A high-protein load has been shown to reduce ghrelin more than a meal high in fat or carbohydrates(3), so you will burn more just sitting. Plus protein has a higher thermic effect, meaning it costs double the energy to metabolize protein versus carbohydrates. Plus protein doesn't generate nearly as high an insulin response as do carbohydrates, and doesn't lead to your blood glucose crashing down, which makes you hungry sooner. Bring on the bacon and eggs." (pp. 213)

- "Some people with very severe insulin resistance, caused by overconsumption of sugar, are enormously hungry--so hungry that standard mealtime changes won't cut it. The hallmark of this pattern is nighttime bingeing.(4) When these patients awaken, they are not hungry and usually go without breakfast (which is a warning sign for big indiscretions later in the day). Indeed, they invariably eat before bed; some of them even awaken from sleep to eat. Eating after dinnertime is problematic for everyone, because any energy consumed that late will have no chance to be burned. It will find its way either to the fat tissue or to the liver, making the patient even more insulin resistant. Some of these patients also have obstructive sleep apnea, and virtually all of them have metabolic syndrome. They are enormously fatigued and can't find the ability to exercise, due to both the excess insulin and the lack of sleep. In order to improve their leptin resistance, which means improving their insulin resistance, they must break this vicious cycle of nighttime eating and energy storage. This means eating a sensible breakfast and lunch with no snacks added, and dinner must consistently occur a good four hours before bedtime. (pp. 213 - 214)

- "get consistent sleep." (pp. 214)

Both Rosedale and Myers recommend omega-3's to reduce inflammation and leptin resistance. I normally take fish oil with breakfast and then again with dinner, but I've gotten out of the habit in the evening. After reading this, I'm going to resume taking fish oil with dinner. Interestingly, I've noticed lately that I'm more hungry before bed. Perhaps this is why.

Going for a walk an hour or later after dinner has further improved my blood glucose levels immediately following the walk, before bed, and also my fasting glucose the next day. My hope is that continuing to do this will further reduce my insulin resistance and leptin resistance over time.


3. Get the PYY up--to hasten satiety (the feeling of being full).


4. Get the cortisol down--to reduce perceived stress and hunger, and reduce deposition of energy into visceral fat."
 
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Cloudlesssky

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273
Type of diabetes
Type 2
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Tablets (oral)
Thank you, everyone for your replies.
Yes, naughty corner for me and now a more positive look at some dietary ideas.
I'm going to start on the site food forums - I'm sure there'll be some good new ideas there.
And then its a peep at the Newcastle diet...
And finally .. OK, I'm going to measure that mile in my car and start forcing myself to go out for a post evening meal walk every day - only 20 minutes, will be worth it!
I'll let you all know how it goes and ...
Thank you once again.
 
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cyclist

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129
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
If you have the means (and don't already have one) then get a fitness band such as the Garmin Vivosmart. It really helps push me to keep on track and walk a little more (so that I get green on the graph indicating I have beaten the auto-assigned target and not blue which means I have not hit my target (yet))

Measuring a mile in the car is a great idea.
I worked out early on after diagnosis that my local Turkish is 1/2 a mile away - so a round trip walk of 1 mile to collect dinner when I can't be bothered cooking. The mixed grill (mostly meat and salad) is eaten, the rice is not and only 1/2 the bread (which raises my BG by 1 to 1.5).
 
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