Sleep apnoeia

Alexandra100

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I have long suffered from sleep apnoeia, 50% obstructive and 50% central. The number of events gradually increased until during my last sleep test I was having 31.5 events per hour. This just brought me into the severe category and I am now trying to get used to a CPAP type ventilator, which can considerably reduce but not eliminate the events. Being very thin, active and devoted to what I considered a healthy diet I had no risk factors for type 2 except my age (75) and possibly anxiety, when in August my HbA1C test came out at 41. Since then it has ocurred to me that struggling against suffocation many times a night must be pretty stressful, and maybe it is this stress that is in part causing my glucose levels to rise.

I'd be very interested to know if there are other people out there with sleep apnoeia AND diabetes. It seems a bit pointless struggling with one's diet if the main damage is being done overnight.
 

Alexandra100

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Huge numbers of type 2 diabetics have sleep apnoeia, most of them undiagnosed.
I'm afraid I don't know about type 1s.

The tables in this article give an indication of how prevalent it is.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2727690/
Thanks, that's a good link. Obesity is a risk factor for both diabetes type 2 and sleep apnoeia. I'm not sure how many of the estimated 15-20% of type 2 diabetics who are skinny also have sleep apnoeia. Certainly at my sleep clinic I am seen as an oddity.
 
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CherryAA

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I have long suffered from sleep apnoeia, 50% obstructive and 50% central. The number of events gradually increased until during my last sleep test I was having 31.5 events per hour. This just brought me into the severe category and I am now trying to get used to a CPAP type ventilator, which can considerably reduce but not eliminate the events. Being very thin, active and devoted to what I considered a healthy diet I had no risk factors for type 2 except my age (75) and possibly anxiety, when in August my HbA1C test came out at 41. Since then it has ocurred to me that struggling against suffocation many times a night must be pretty stressful, and maybe it is this stress that is in part causing my glucose levels to rise.

I'd be very interested to know if there are other people out there with sleep apnoeia AND diabetes. It seems a bit pointless struggling with one's diet if the main damage is being done overnight.

I don't have sleep apnea per se, but I did snore like a trooper, enough to wake a household. I embarked on the process of getting hold of a CPAP machine but on checking again before I went - discovered I don't snore much anymore . I have lost weight, but I am still obese. The difference seems to be that my blood sugars are now well controlled ...... so maybe its all a bit circular,
If your cpap machine can bring the events down, your blood sugar spikes may go down as a consequence and you need the machine less - might be worth a go.
Do you kno if your 41 is based on a smooth line of a series of very high and ery low figures? I'm guessing the actual apnea results in big swings? It might be worth investing in a 24/7 monitor and trying to correlate that with your sleep habits using a phone app?
 

Alexandra100

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Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
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I don't have sleep apnea per se, but I did snore like a trooper, enough to wake a household. I embarked on the process of getting hold of a CPAP machine but on checking again before I went - discovered I don't snore much anymore . I have lost weight, but I am still obese. The difference seems to be that my blood sugars are now well controlled ...... so maybe its all a bit circular,
If your cpap machine can bring the events down, your blood sugar spikes may go down as a consequence and you need the machine less - might be worth a go.
Do you kno if your 41 is based on a smooth line of a series of very high and ery low figures? I'm guessing the actual apnea results in big swings? It might be worth investing in a 24/7 monitor and trying to correlate that with your sleep habits using a phone app?
Cherry, what an interesting post. The main problem with the CPAP machine is finding a mask that is half-way comfortable. It has to be tight enough on the face to stop lots of air leaking out, which can feel dreadful. There are many different designs of mask. I am currently on my 2nd. I am gradually getting better at tightening the various straps just enough and sometimes I sleep through in it, but sometimes I wake up after maybe 90 minutes and feel I can't bear the mask on another second. Another problem is that my machine is actually a very sophisticated version of CPAP which in theory can detect when I stop breathing and pump me full of air to get me going again. Unfortunately is quite often gets this wrong, so that when I am peacably trying to get to sleep it will suddenly blast me with a current of air strong enough to puff out my cheeks. Obviously once that starts there is no chance of my gettting to sleep, so I have to abandon. Since my HbA1C test I am even more motivated to struggle on with the machine, as it usually greatly reduces the number of "events" and I am convinced they are at the very least contributing to my blood glucose problems.

No, the 41 could be 41 all the time or any mixture of peaks and troughs. Hence for me the attraction of home testing. You are right, a 24/7 monitor would be brilliant, but I can't imagine the NHS giving me one, especially as I am officially pre-pre-diabetic (though I would be classed as pre-diabetic in America.) Still I could be wrong. After all, the ventilator I have on loan costs, they tell me, £3-4000! (I sometimes worry a burglar might have it away.) And the mask they threw away because it was mashing up my nose cost about £100.

I plan to record my tests for a while and then see my GP but I fear that unless they are very high I will be brushed off as "worried well", especially given my age. There is a school of thought that aged diabetrics should just be left to enjoy life in the hopes that by the time the diabetic complications catch up with them they will be dead from something else!
 
D

Diabeticliberty

Guest
I have long suffered from sleep apnoeia, 50% obstructive and 50% central. The number of events gradually increased until during my last sleep test I was having 31.5 events per hour. This just brought me into the severe category and I am now trying to get used to a CPAP type ventilator, which can considerably reduce but not eliminate the events. Being very thin, active and devoted to what I considered a healthy diet I had no risk factors for type 2 except my age (75) and possibly anxiety, when in August my HbA1C test came out at 41. Since then it has ocurred to me that struggling against suffocation many times a night must be pretty stressful, and maybe it is this stress that is in part causing my glucose levels to rise.

I'd be very interested to know if there are other people out there with sleep apnoeia AND diabetes. It seems a bit pointless struggling with one's diet if the main damage is being done overnight.


I suffer from type 1 diabetes and sleep apnoea. The sleep condition in some individuals can be linked in some individuals to having an overly large neck size but this in not true of everyone. A CPAP machine while you may find it a little unpleasant to become accustomed to is 100% genuinely a complete life saver. I would strongly urge you to get used or as used as you are able to using it. Without its use the stress on your heart, lungs and brain is very dangerous. I am absolutely certain however that apnoea has no correlation to good or bad diabetic control. If you wish to discuss any aspect of either condition I will tell you as much as I know about either one or both.
 

CherryAA

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,171
Type of diabetes
Type 2
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Diet only
Cherry, what an interesting post. The main problem with the CPAP machine is finding a mask that is half-way comfortable. It has to be tight enough on the face to stop lots of air leaking out, which can feel dreadful. There are many different designs of mask. I am currently on my 2nd. I am gradually getting better at tightening the various straps just enough and sometimes I sleep through in it, but sometimes I wake up after maybe 90 minutes and feel I can't bear the mask on another second. Another problem is that my machine is actually a very sophisticated version of CPAP which in theory can detect when I stop breathing and pump me full of air to get me going again. Unfortunately is quite often gets this wrong, so that when I am peacably trying to get to sleep it will suddenly blast me with a current of air strong enough to puff out my cheeks. Obviously once that starts there is no chance of my gettting to sleep, so I have to abandon. Since my HbA1C test I am even more motivated to struggle on with the machine, as it usually greatly reduces the number of "events" and I am convinced they are at the very least contributing to my blood glucose problems.

No, the 41 could be 41 all the time or any mixture of peaks and troughs. Hence for me the attraction of home testing. You are right, a 24/7 monitor would be brilliant, but I can't imagine the NHS giving me one, especially as I am officially pre-pre-diabetic (though I would be classed as pre-diabetic in America.) Still I could be wrong. After all, the ventilator I have on loan costs, they tell me, £3-4000! (I sometimes worry a burglar might have it away.) And the mask they threw away because it was mashing up my nose cost about £100.

I plan to record my tests for a while and then see my GP but I fear that unless they are very high I will be brushed off as "worried well", especially given my age. There is a school of thought that aged diabetrics should just be left to enjoy life in the hopes that by the time the diabetic complications catch up with them they will be dead from something else!

well in the context of that lot, an Abbott freestyle is peanuts and in any event if you do want to reduce your daily spikes figures it should not be that hard , just reduce the carb proportion of your diet!

https://www.freestylelibre.co.uk/libre/
 

Bluetit1802

Legend
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25,216
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Type 2 (in remission!)
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Diet only
@Alexandra100

I'm afraid to say there is less than zero chance of you getting a continuous monitor on the NHS. Even Type 1s struggle.
The only thing you could do is to buy a Freestyle Libre, but the sensors are expensive. However, if you order the starter pack you get the reader and 2 sensors. Two sensors may be enough for you to work out what is happening to your levels 24/7. Each sensor lasts 2 weeks.

https://www.freestylelibre.co.uk/li...MI6OqHkvCL1gIVorftCh3eewuEEAAYASAAEgI65_D_BwE
 

Alexandra100

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Messages
3,738
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
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Tablets (oral)
I suffer from type 1 diabetes and sleep apnoea. The sleep condition in some individuals can be linked in some individuals to having an overly large neck size but this in not true of everyone. A CPAP machine while you may find it a little unpleasant to become accustomed to is 100% genuinely a complete life saver. I would strongly urge you to get used or as used as you are able to using it. Without its use the stress on your heart, lungs and brain is very dangerous. I am absolutely certain however that apnoea has no correlation to good or bad diabetic control. If you wish to discuss any aspect of either condition I will tell you as much as I know about either one or both.
Thanks for your good advice and encouragement. I still think the stress of sleep apnoeia events may cause high BG levels in the night at least in type 2s. Yes, the sleep clinic nurse struggled to find a mask to fit my skinny neck! I would certainly be very interested to read all you can tell me about both conditions.
 

Alexandra100

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Messages
3,738
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
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@Alexandra100

I'm afraid to say there is less than zero chance of you getting a continuous monitor on the NHS. Even Type 1s struggle.
The only thing you could do is to buy a Freestyle Libre, but the sensors are expensive. However, if you order the starter pack you get the reader and 2 sensors. Two sensors may be enough for you to work out what is happening to your levels 24/7. Each sensor lasts 2 weeks.

https://www.freestylelibre.co.uk/li...MI6OqHkvCL1gIVorftCh3eewuEEAAYASAAEgI65_D_BwE
Thanks very much for the suggestion and link.
 
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Diabeticliberty

Guest
Thanks for your good advice and encouragement. I still think the stress of sleep apnoeia events may cause high BG levels in the night at least in type 2s. Yes, the sleep clinic nurse struggled to find a mask to fit my skinny neck! I would certainly be very interested to read all you can tell me about both conditions.


Please believe me the last thing I wish to do is frighten you. The thing is though, untreated or poorly managed sleep apnoea will take years from the end of your life or kill you outright. If you are able to find a mask that works for you then the difference in quality of sleep really is life changing. At least it was for me. Prior to receiving effective treatment I frequently found myself falling asleep at traffic lights while driving. I also frequently fell fast asleep while eating dinner at 6.30pm each evening. Things were getting absolutely desperate for my own condition. For your own part if a full face mask isn't comfortable for you there are 'nose only' masks available. I must stress however that I have never been able to get on with them. I have been involved in diabetic support groups in my own area and the same for apnoea sufferers. I have never encountered any type 1 or type 2 diabetic other than yourself who felt that the conditions were related to their apnoea. I spoke to a professor of sleep related conditions when my apnoea was first diagnosed about 20 years ago and there was no connection made by him either. I don't wish to force CPAP upon you as some kind of crusading zealot but the thing is you see the day I had an overnight stay in a sleep laboratory my condition was considered so extreme that they gave me a CPAP to take away with me and I have never looked back. I truly believe that things had got so bad for me that without the device I might well be pushing up the proverbial daisies by now. I really hope that you are able to find a good was forward. If I can be if any assistance then I will help you in any way I can.
 

Alexandra100

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Type of diabetes
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Please believe me the last thing I wish to do is frighten you. The thing is though, untreated or poorly managed sleep apnoea will take years from the end of your life or kill you outright. If you are able to find a mask that works for you then the difference in quality of sleep really is life changing. At least it was for me. Prior to receiving effective treatment I frequently found myself falling asleep at traffic lights while driving. I also frequently fell fast asleep while eating dinner at 6.30pm each evening. Things were getting absolutely desperate for my own condition. For your own part if a full face mask isn't comfortable for you there are 'nose only' masks available. I must stress however that I have never been able to get on with them. I have been involved in diabetic support groups in my own area and the same for apnoea sufferers. I have never encountered any type 1 or type 2 diabetic other than yourself who felt that the conditions were related to their apnoea. I spoke to a professor of sleep related conditions when my apnoea was first diagnosed about 20 years ago and there was no connection made by him either. I don't wish to force CPAP upon you as some kind of crusading zealot but the thing is you see the day I had an overnight stay in a sleep laboratory my condition was considered so extreme that they gave me a CPAP to take away with me and I have never looked back. I truly believe that things had got so bad for me that without the device I might well be pushing up the proverbial daisies by now. I really hope that you are able to find a good was forward. If I can be if any assistance then I will help you in any way I can.
Thank-you so much. This kind of connection and support really does help. Don't worry, I have long realised that sleep apnoeia is serious. I discovered it when I was diagnosed with atrial fibrillation. I researched AF and found sleep apnoeia listed as one of the possible causes. My cardiologist didn't tell me this, I had to find it out for myself. I got myself referred to a sleep clinic and then to an orthodontist who made me a responding splint to move my lower jaw forward at night. I wore this for years, until my top front teeth began to come loose with the strain and I had to stop. I got myself referred back to the sleep clinic, had another sleep test, but the consultant refused to take my condition seriously, so I lost a whole year. A year later I got myself referred back again, another sleep test, my condition had now deteriorated and was classed as just severe. (If 31.5 events per hour are only just classed as severe, heaven help those who are severely severe - like you maybe. Do you know how many events per hour you were having?)

The consultant didn't want to send me for a machine as he thought I probably wouldn't be able to hack it. The nurses tell me they have at least a 50% failure rate, so I suppose they get discouraged. But it's not as if there was any other treatment. (The splints only work for mild to moderate OSA.) My first mask went over my nose. I knew it was a bad idea, as I already wear spectacles whenever I'm not in bed and have red marks on my nose which get sore at times. Sure enough after about 6 hours use spread over 3 nights I had an oozing sore on the bridge of my nose and it was swollen as if I had been boxing. After that they gave me a full face mask which is much better. I think I'll be able to make it work.
 
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Diabeticliberty

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In my own condition I was having in excess of 60 events per hour. I had reached the point where I honestly felt like my life wasn't worth living. When I attended my first clinic after being supplied with the CPAP I got into conversation with other users, some of whom said that they hated their machines and flatly refused to use them. Some told me they left their machines switched on in spare rooms while they slept without it so that the usage counters recorded as if the machines were being fully used. I honestly could not comprehend this as my CPAP had given me a life again. I don't wish to over dramatise matters but that is exactly how it was and still is. I have used the machine every single night since I was provided with it. It has been all around the world with me. Please persist with it. Make it work for you. We have little if any other choice. Life is short and fragile. Apnoea is a killer.
 
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Alexandra100

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In my own condition I was having in excess of 60 events per hour. I had reached the point where I honestly felt like my life wasn't worth living. When I attended my first clinic after being supplied with the CPAP I got into conversation with other users, some of whom said that they hated their machines and flatly refused to use them. Some told me they left their machines switched on in spare rooms while they slept without it so that the usage counters recorded as if the machines were being fully used. I honestly could not comprehend this as my CPAP had given me a life again. I don't wish to over dramatise matters but that is exactly how it was and still is. I have used the machine every single night since I was provided with it. It has been all around the world with me. Please persist with it. Make it work for you. We have little if any other choice. Life is short and fragile. Apnoea is a killer.
I'm so glad your story had a happy ending, or at any rate continuation! With so many events per hour you must have been truly exhausted. How much does your machine weigh? Mine is quite bulky and heavy so I am dreading having to take it on holiday with me. (I travel on public transport with a rucsac.)
 
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Diabeticliberty

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The NHS provided me with a replacement unit last year. The old model was like an anvil but really sturdy and I loved it to death. The new model is ultra light but very flimsy and I am not quite so in love with as my previous unit. The new one has the facility to add a small canister of water as it has an integral humidifier but to be honest I've never suffered from a dry mouth when using CPAP. I'm far too busy dreaming about..........stuff :wacky:
 
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Alexandra100

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The NHS provided me with a replacement unit last year. The old model was like an anvil but really sturdy and I loved it to death. The new model is ultra light but very flimsy and I am not quite so in love with as my previous unit. The new one has the facility to add a small canister of water as it has an integral humidifier but to be honest I've never suffered from a dry mouth when using CPAP. I'm far too busy dreaming about..........stuff :wacky:
I can't imagine wanting a humidifier. I dribble too much into my mask as it is. I think I get more dreams, often nightmares, when I'm not wearing the mask. Btw I don't imagine type 1 could be caused by osa, but maybe type 2?
 
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Diabeticliberty

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Quite a lot of users do report suffering from quite a dry sensation in their mouth upon waking after a nights sleep using CPAP. The old Resmed units used to use a separate system I think with a dedicated humidifier. The new ones all have an inbuilt humidifier and you just add a water pot. As I say though the new units are very flimsy and the staff at the Apnoea Unit at my hospital say they are getting repeated complaints about machines being scrapped prematurely
 

Resurgam

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I have used a CPAP machine for years. The old masks used to leak air all the time and I used to get dry eyes, but the one I have now is excellent. It fits closely and is silent, no leaks. I always wear it, and sleep well.
The mask should not be pressing on your nose - perhaps it was not the right size. I have use an over the nose one all the time, and I insisted on the air pressure being left unlocked, as I like to adjust it from time to time. When I have a cold for instance, it needs more pressure, and then less when I get better. Some of the nurses are most reluctant to do that until I tell them how many times I make adjustments during a year.
 

JohnEGreen

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I have persuaded my wife to make a doctors appointment as this thread set me to thinking and on looking it up found that she has been displaying many of the symptoms and signs I'd just never made the connection before. So thanks for starting this thread.
 
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Skippy1

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Non-insulin injectable medication (incretin mimetics)
I have used a CPAP machine for about 8 years now after being diagnosed with 90+ events an hour. I use a nose mask which I get on fine with and it's made a huge difference to my energy levels. I'm still on the original unit so was interested in the mention of a lighter unit as I do a lot of travelling - anything lighter/smaller would be great. I was also given an adapter to use the machine with a 12 volt battery for when I'm camping - I'd love to know if anyone has found a really lightweight battery pack that will last a couple of days (and doesn't cost the earth!).