Statins - “People are taking this drug to prevent a problem and creating a disaster.”

[MikeTurin]

There is also a standard test that should be done after someone goes on any statin..... Did your GP bother to do that test?

Trouble is I cant remember what the test is or what its checking.. possibly rhabbdyomolis (sorry cant spell)..

Transaminase AST/ALT is the test. It could detect a problem with liver and signalling a liver damage.

By the way you can make a false positive if the evening before you have made a visit to the pub and took three pints of stout and topped with a shot of single malt. Not actually a false positive 'cause the liver is dealing with the booze, but it's a temporary condition.

About statines, I can't find the article but different kinds of statines have a different correlation with diabetes onset, some have a positive correlation, some others have a negative correlation.

 

[ickihun]

Of course, the classic point about everything in the article is that it is true that Statins lower cholesterol, as we all know. There just isn't good evidence that cholesterol causes atherosclerosis and heart disease....

I agree too.
My cholesterol never higher than 4.4 and I'm being tested for how severe my heart disease is by angiogram on friday. Calcium score says 19. My body (chest pains) are saying otherwise.
I have symptoms of a blocked artery maybe LAD like calcium ct stated.
Let's see!
Oh mind u no statins as my cholesterol level was 3.9 pre lchf. No statins allowed whilst pregnant so none then or whilst planning babies either!

 

[maxine212]

No need to be scared but be aware that it may affect your total cholesterol. Of course we are all different but my TC went from 4 to 5.7 in the space of 3 months. The only dietary changes were more cheese, full fat yoghurt and some cream. I need another test soon to show dairy food reduction has altered TC. The way my body operates, who knows.

Q: for DGJ. So as i understand/extrapolate from above, fat affects your cholesterol, but not your CV risk?

 

[AM1874]

All I had to do for an interim test was to ask my DN. I told her I had lowered my carbs a lot and increased my fat by quite a bit and wanted to see the effect. She agreed straight away. My GP went off sick shortly after that, maybe with shock after seeing my much improved results!

Wow that's quite unusual.. I have never seen my GP about Type 2 except when I specifically made an appointment.. I have only ever been seen by a nurse the first 2 times the Diabetes Nurse the rest just a Practice Nurse or the blood taker..
Would you consider/can afford going private? There are some online companies that do blood tests. Just a thought.
As I have said a few times I'm not concerned about cholesterol but had the CAC scan to see the state of my heart and arteries which were ok..

Thanks for your advice @Bluetit1802 and @bulkbiker ..
Update .. went to the surgery today and asked the questions about Chol blood test. I was prepared to get "shirty" if necessary and I did make a bit of a "push" at the receptionist telling her that I needed to know because of lifestyle changes etc. She said "let me go and check". Then, lo and behold, after about 10 minutes, she came back and told me that I had an appointment for a blood test on 18 May followed by my annual review on 25 May .. which was all news to me. She said, "it's just come through .. and your blood test will include all your cholesterol levels"
The power of positive thinking? .. a crazy coincidence? .. or a (not so) subtle way of pre-empting a potential issue?
Don't know and don't care .. my worry has gone away

 

[bulkbiker]

Thanks for your advice @Bluetit1802 and @bulkbiker ..
Update .. went to the surgery today and asked the questions about Chol blood test. I was prepared to get "shirty" if necessary and I did make a bit of a "push" at the receptionist telling her that I needed to know because of lifestyle changes etc. She said "let me go and check". Then, lo and behold, after about 10 minutes, she came back and told me that I had an appointment for a blood test on 18 May followed by my annual review on 25 May .. which was all news to me. She said, "it's just come through .. and your blood test will include all your cholesterol levels"
The power of positive thinking? .. a crazy coincidence? .. or a (not so) subtle way of pre-empting a potential issue?
Don't know and don't care .. my worry has gone away

Excellent news whatever the reason... well done..

 

[DavidGrahamJones]

but not your CV risk

It would seem that an increase in cheese, yoghurt and cream in coffee since Christmas has led to an increase in cholesterol and as I mentioned I'll be able to check that the next time I have my TC checked in a few weeks. How should I calculate my CV risk? I had my heart and pipes checked out last June and my heart is strong and my pipes are clear. I've used QRISK today and the only significant change in risk occurs if I didn't have diabetes. Even changing my cholesterol to 4 only alters the result by 1%.

 

[cdpjpharmacist]

All they had to do was look at the 1990 Merck Pharmaceutical patent application which adding CoQ10 to the statin "to prevent impending muscle pain" and that's almost an exact quote from the patent.

Merck knew as far back as 1990, based on their clinical trials (a lot less than the millions now taking statins) that statins prevent the uptake of CoQ10 and this leads to muscle pain in some but not all.

It's only my opinion but the thing I find most hideous is doctors saying they don't know when they should and worse still doctors like my old Dr. saying that it was my age (48 at the time), then it was my weight, then I exercised too much.

Thank you for bringing up the point that statins block the production of CoQ10. Also, taking a CoQ10 supplement can help replenish low ylevels.

When considering a CoQ10 supplement, you should choose one that is both water and fat-soluble which is better absorbed by the body than regular CoQ10.

 

[maxine212]

It would seem that an increase in cheese, yoghurt and cream in coffee since Christmas has led to an increase in cholesterol and as I mentioned I'll be able to check that the next time I have my TC checked in a few weeks. How should I calculate my CV risk? I had my heart and pipes checked out last June and my heart is strong and my pipes are clear. I've used QRISK today and the only significant change in risk occurs if I didn't have diabetes. Even changing my cholesterol to 4 only alters the result by 1%.

DJT, when you say you say your pipes are clear (yahoo!) what test is that? I just looked up QRISK and i don't know if we have that here but we must have something close to it because my dr. said, "Going by the math, you will have longer life with statins." I had two imaging tests on my "pipes"; one is the calcium score, the other is carotid imaging, and my pipes are also clean - still, doc says ..."statins." "No."
The Great Cholesterol Con is on it's way.

 

[DavidGrahamJones]

DJT, when you say you say your pipes are clear (yahoo!) what test is that?

Wish I could remember, there were four and they cost the holiday insurance US$16,000.

After getting a false (inaccurate) troponin test from an M.D. in Maui, Hawaii, I was admitted to what I call A&E at Maui Memorial where they did another three troponin tests, 2 using a machine and one where they did the lab work, all three were negative and in theory that should have been it. They kept me in for further tests (can't say they weren't thorough, but then they knew I was insured, I'll know better if there's a next time).

I had an ECG (check heart's rhythm and electrical activity - normal), a heart echo cardiogram (create pictures of heart's chambers, valves, walls and aorta, arteries, veins attached to heart - normal), an MRI scan (shows heart muscle, valves, chambers and how well blood flows through heart and major vessels. normal) and a nuclear stress test (shows areas of low blood flow through the heart and heart muscle - normal). My use of the word normal is based on what the relevant operators were telling me at the time and what a UK cardiologist advised my GP back in the UK.

My treatment (?) at this hospital stopped when I said that my insurance didn't cover the triple bypass they were suggesting, I was released within 2 hours. The 38 page report was sent to my GP back home in the UK. She had been able to discuss the report with a local cardiologist whose opinion was that I didn't need surgery, especially after going through the report of the test done which I have mentioned above. As much as I'm annoyed that I had tests that were totally unnecessary, that they suggested surgery I didn't need (several ongoing law suits in the U.S.), at least I know my ticker and tubes are OK for a 60 year old (I'm 64 LOL).

Going by the math, you will have longer life with statins.

Is that the math that says if you give 100 people a statin, 2 will die from a CVE as opposed to 3 in 100 people not taking statin. It's a clever way of using statistics and I did read the Great Cholesterol Con. In the end I read so much about cholesterol and statins, my head hurt. My final decision to stop statins after 17 years was because my TC dropped to 3 after going low carb and I was fed up with having to tolerate muscle pain, brain fog and poor sleep.

 

[Ultramum]

I get nagged by my DN to go back on statins at every visit.

I had tracked them down as the cause of my dreadful insomnia which was getting me down nearly to the point of needing antidepressants - I just say I'd rather live a shorter happier life - usually shuts her up!

 

[DavidGrahamJones]

When considering a CoQ10 supplement, you should choose one that is both water and fat-soluble which is better absorbed by the body than regular CoQ10.

I found choosing CoQ10 supplements a little tricky because they all claim to be the best, the purest etc etc. My understanding is the Ubiquinol is a purer form rather than ubiquinone.

I did take them while taking statins although no clear guidance on how much except for on the bottle. They didn't make a noticeable difference to my muscle pain, brain fog or poor sleep and I have read several discussion about absorption, it's possible I didn't have the CoQ10 that was water/fat soluble.

I've see some informal research done by a guy called Dr. Sinatra who found that CoQ10 levels increased the same for ubiquinol and ubiquinon and that his opinion was it was good for heart health. I think the Japanese obviously take that advice.

I'm taking them now because I know from a blood test that my CoQ10 levels are low, more than can be accounted for by aging. I'm looking at the bottle which doesn't mention if it's water/fat soluble although it claims to have a rapid absorption formula containing vit. C and E and black pepper extract "to increase absorption and ensure none of the CoQ10 is wasted."

To be honest, that could easily be a load of old flannel and I'd never be able to prove it.

BTW, are you a pharmacist?

 

[JohnEGreen]

Is that the same doctor Sinatra who also recommends Grounding or Earthing.

 

[Indy51]

I've see some informal research done by a guy called Dr. Sinatra who found that CoQ10 levels increased the same for ubiquinol and ubiquinon

Didn't you also have your DNA tested, Graj? Think there are alleles that can affect how well people are able to convert ubiquinone to ubiquinol (active form). According to my DNA report, I'm one:

rs1800566 (+/+, AA)
AA individuals cannot convert ubiquinone to active ubiquinol, and AG 3x less efficient at conversion
than GG. Consider supplementing ubiquinol for AA/AG individuals. GG individuals should be fine
with ubiquinone.

 

[ickihun]

My partner suffered on simvastatin but atorastatin he has no side affects. He has high cholesterol and eats limited diet, especially when his depression is bad. I think we all feel with his fathers heart attack and strokes history he may be better off. He feels he's at least doing something til his mental health improves he can then rethink.
Me I'm happy to keep my cholesterol good on my own.

 

[DavidGrahamJones]

Didn't you also have your DNA tested, Graj? Think there are alleles that can affect how well people are able to convert ubiquinone to ubiquinol (active form). According to my DNA report, I'm one:

Yes I did, I need to dig that info out to check. Cheers, your memory is so much better than mine.

 

[maxine212]

DGJ - Thanks for your reply. So they wanted to replace your pipes x 3 and they turned out to be fine? Honestly. I'm still speechless from your ordeal. Speechless! Steak, mashed potatoes and chocolate cake at age 104 is the best revenge. Carry on.

 

[DavidGrahamJones]

Is that the same doctor Sinatra who also recommends Grounding or Earthing.

Ii'm not a follower of Dr Sinatra so I googled and yes he is. Does walking round in bare feet count as grounding I wonder?

 

[Resurgam]

If I get pushed to take statins I shall say - brightly - oh, I've not had those before - are they any good for a bad memory? Mine's absolutely terrible.
I was at the folk club last Sunday and singing away - forgot a line in a song I have known absolutely for ever.
Psshaw - take the tablets, learn what real embarrassment feels like...

 

[Daphne917]

I get nagged by my DN to go back on statins at every visit.

I had tracked them down as the cause of my dreadful insomnia which was getting me down nearly to the point of needing antidepressants - I just say I'd rather live a shorter happier life - usually shuts her up!

Every time I go for a check up my DN and I have the statins 'conversation' which I give a 'stiff' ignoring.

 

[maxine212]

My Dr. said (fondly) he remembers when patients came in and said, "Whatever you say, Doc. Tell me what to do." That was BG, I guess. Before Google.