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Statins & high cholesterol

Discussion in 'Newly Diagnosed' started by Rutho, Nov 27, 2017.

  1. ringi

    ringi Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    One consultant told me that as the risks of side effects had already been taken (and you know if you get them), then it is harder to justify most people coming off satins, then it is to justify not putting them on satins in the first place. (My TG were off the scale at the time I was put on statins since corrected down to normal levels with low-carb, I am getting close to deciding to stop statins.)
     
  2. Resurgam

    Resurgam Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    When there was a large scale revolt against taking statins in France an increase in deaths from all the things they are supposed to guard against was predicted - as it turned out there was an almost equal reduction in deaths.
    There have been many theories put forward about why that happened, some of them do make a bit of sense, but it was a big reduction, in the thousands.
     
  3. ringi

    ringi Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Remember a 10 minutes walk a day works better then a statin for many people. How many people in Frence swapped the satin for a walk? I expect that the revolt were also mostly by people who care about their health, hence may not tell us much about the outcome of reducing statins usage of other people.

    In the English speaking world, the people who get told the "truth" about statins are very lickly to be the people who also get to learn about "low carb", as it is the same expert promoting both messages. This will make it very hard to track what is going on in the data if we get a "statin revolt".
     
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  4. Footrest

    Footrest Type 2 · Member

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    I’d listen to your wife and try the statins. I’ve been on minimum atorvastatin for about a year and had absolutely no side effects(we are all different) - my cholesterol is still too high but I am now managing my diet better and so declined to increase the dose of that or metformin.
     
  5. fletchweb

    fletchweb Prefer not to say · Well-Known Member

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    My Doctor prescribed me statins even though my cholesterol levels were quite good - mid normal range. When I took them I had a complete deterioration of my quality of life to the extent that I could no longer do the same level of physical activity as I once had. The only thing that had changed was the fact that I was taking these Statins so I stopped and a couple of weeks later I was back to my old routine.

    Now the interesting thing - my Doctor wanted to put me on these statins because he gave me an old song and dance about how the number of years I've been living as a Type 1 - I'm likely like someone who has already survived a heart attack. What a bunch of crap, the guy only sees me maybe 15 minutes every two years, knows nothing about me, and he makes that kind of statement.
    Guess what - I haven't seen him since. Now the interesting thing is - because I was Type 1 it was an automatic here's your prescriptions for Statins and to protect your kidneys from the Statins here is your prescription for Blood Pressure Medication.

    What a racket - quite an industry and I really feel doctors need to be audited for the prescriptions they write as the whole industry is already questionable in regard to revenues that go from the Pharmaceutical industry to doctors (and it's legal in most countries) - based on what I've read there is a monetary value to being in bed with Big Pharma (Vacations, Caribbean conferences, etc). I'm not "Anti Pharmaceutical" but it would appear that things are being over prescribed at a remarkable rate.

    Anyway - the greatest irony of all - in the past month I've had 2 non-diabetic friends who almost died and had to undergo open heart surgery due to blocked arteries. As they were normal, seemingly fit individuals they did not garner as much attention as I've had being a Type 1 and yet they probably would have benefited much more than I if they were prescribed statins - I suspect they're probably taking them now.

    So what's the moral to this pontification? You got to take responsibility for your own healthcare and think of your doctor as a health consultant - in the end you make the decision and you will also be the one to pay the price or reap the benefits.

    And the only thing I take is insulin - nothing else :)
     
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  6. seadragon

    seadragon Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    Personally I would not touch statins. All the data seems to have come from a group of old unhealthy men and I don't think it relates in any way to me or to many people. The level for normal cholesterol seemed to decrease in line with them wanting more people on statins and the 4mmol they seem to decree for anyone diabetic appears to be a number pulled out of thin air with absolutely no scientific basis for it.

    In fact scientific evidence seems to point the other way that too low is as bad or worse than too high. I don't doubt statins do what they claim which is reduce cholesterol but I strongly doubt that is a good thing. for most people.

    My doctor wanted to put me on statins and when I pointed out my normal levels she said vaguely they had 'other' protective benefits but seemed unable to state what they were. I gather some people think they reduce inflammation - but even then you can achieve a much better effect through low carb healthy fats diet and some exercise with out the risk of any side effects.

    I feel sorry for people who take them, have terrible side effects but are so scared by their doctors that they persist with a miserable quality of life on the off chance (and it's a very small number that actually benefit even if you believe 'their' numbers) they may avoid a stroke or heart attack. So the question is take the very small risk you may have a slightly shorter but happy, fit and healthy life, or take the statins and interfere with your body's chemistry and risk debilitating and possibly life changing side effects? I know which I'd choose.
     
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  7. TheBigNewt

    TheBigNewt Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    I use statins up the yazoo (and take Lipitor 80/d forever myself). But remember what I do: treat coronary disease. People who have been diagnosed with CAD benefit BIGTIME from statins, and statins are about the only thing that's been shown to benefit them other than aspirin and sometimes the antiplatelet drugs like Plavix and Brilinta. If you have coronary disease I don't care what your cholesterol is, you've got a disease that's likely to do you in so you better do something about it before it does. And the vast majority have no side effects from them, they've been around since 1987. Most of the side effects are from the internet lol. As for those of you with no coronary disease you can do what you want. But when/if you get the disease you better start doing something about it. And I don't mean eat more chicken either. OK I'll shut up now!
     
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  8. Tipetoo

    Tipetoo Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    The cardiologist that looked after me when I was admitted to hospital three years ago with AFib, put me on Rosuvastatin (Crestor) 10 mg a day.

    No arguments from me being put on the stuff, I have never had any of the side effects people on this forum complain about either.
     
  9. heh

    heh Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I was prescribed statins (Lipitor) when I was diagnosed T2 as my cholesterol was 7. something. I took them for 3 months and my cholesterol came down to 3.something so I convinced the doctor to let me stop taking them for 3 months to see how I get on - failed, cholesterol went back up to high 6's. I am back on the statins now with no side affects.
     
  10. Mike D

    Mike D Type 2 · Expert

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    Not if you read this forum. Far from it. Define "vast majority"
     
    #30 Mike D, Nov 29, 2017 at 5:56 AM
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2017
  11. Bassiette

    Bassiette Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Im type 1 and my doctor asked me to make complete lipid profile test we found high cholesterol and he gave me statins 10 mg at once i should make atest tommorow after month from using it. I wanna to know if my results are normal should i stop the drug or should i use it forever as i heared from other people if is used statins my body will depend on it and i need to use it constantly. Im 27 years old and weight 85 KG.
     
  12. Mike D

    Mike D Type 2 · Expert

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    Up to you and research ... thorough I might add. Nothing to prevent not taking the drugs and that last bit about dependency makes zero sense to me. NONE
     
  13. Heathero

    Heathero Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Have been taking statins for years only thing I found was aching limbs (side affect with some) However when stopped only small difference re aches but increase in cholesterol. Good luck.
     
  14. TheBigNewt

    TheBigNewt Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    But a.fib is not coronary disease. Separate cardiac issues. I don't think statins benefit people who have a.fib, but it definitely benefits people with coronary disease. Reduces risk of more coronary events (heart attacks, revascularization procedures like stents and bypasses), death from heart disease, even strokes (which are not coronary related). People who also have peripheral vascular disease (legs, feet) benefit even more.
     
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  15. Tipetoo

    Tipetoo Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I have vascular problems with my legs as well, which for the most part have been fixed by vascular specialists both in Brisbane and Bundaberg.
     
  16. Chowie

    Chowie Type 1 · Active Member

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    The ABC (Australian Broadcasting Commission) did 2 part documentary that was scathing of Statins. It passed all the ABC's stringent checks and balances, however was shortly removed with a big political uproar.

    Personally I think all drugs are dangerous and I don't like taking any. As a T1 I know I must take (and I do) insulin without fail, as for the rest of the drugs well do your research, but NEVER stop any prescribed medication without guidance from your health professionals. If you don't like their advice get a second opinion from other qualified professionals, not the internet.
     
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  17. derry60

    derry60 Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    I don't think that there is hardly a medication out there that has not got a horror story for some people taking a medication some people will have side effects some will not. You have to decide for yourself if you take them.I have been taking Statins 40mg for 14 years with no side effects, and there are many many who are taking them who are fine. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-37306736
     
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  18. ringi

    ringi Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    The issue with statins is how little benefit they give most people, if I recall correctly over 100 people have to take statins to extend the life of one person by a few days. If the targeting of satins could be make a lot better, so only the people who were most likely to benefit were given them, then the risk of side effects would be a lot more justified.

    However remember if you are already taking satins without side effects, then you may get no benefit from stopping statins .
     
  19. LittleGreyCat

    LittleGreyCat Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Just for some context:

    Last March, "Serum LDL cholesterol level 5.51 mmol/L - Serum LDL cholesterol level, (AMS327) - pn Dr CS, Consider the possibility of FH (familial, hypercholesterolaemia), especially if there is, personal/family history of premature CHD (MI <60 in, first degree relative or <50 in second-degree, relative). All with FH should be offered a referral to, the Lipid Clinic for confirmation of diagnosis and, initiation of cascade testing. NICE guideline 71."

    Followed by a strong recommendation to go on statins. With an awareness that I had already been on different statins twice and stopped both because of adverse side effects.

    Last two lipid profiles:

    Type......................................Oct 2017.......................................March 2017
    Total Cholesterol..................6.62................................................7.95
    LDL.........................................4.1..................................................5.51
    Cholesterol/HDL...................3.62...............................................4.47
    HDL........................................1.83................................................1.78
    Triglycerides..........................1.51................................................1.44

    As you can see, there is not a massive difference but my latest results were met with smiles and congratulations. The only warning note on the test results was that the total cholesterol was high, but all the individual results were Good or Satisfactory. Noting that there doesn't seem to be an upper limit for LDL on the surgery computer system, and my HDL is above normal range. Triglycerides are well within normal range.

    Looking at the list, I had reduced my LDL a bit, increased my HDL a little bit. The drop in LDL made a big difference to the Total Cholesterol/HDL ratio.
    As far as I am aware I made no major changes to my diet between the two tests, although I have been much stricter over LCHF since January 2017.
    I know that many people say that LCHF brings cholesterol right down. I think the operative word here is "sometimes".

    So in my very personal case I seem to be managing O.K. although my total cholesterol is way above the 4 which is supposed to be a target for T2s over 40 (I am both, by the way).

    There is less and less convincing evidence that a high level of cholesterol in the blood is bad for you, and more and more evidence that in many cases it may in fact be good for you, especially in older women.

    One "truism" is that if you take statins you will probably die around the same time as you would if you didn't. The only difference is likely to be what is on your death certificate.

    My view on side effects is that I suspect that they are much higher than reported (one example further up thread) but that people accept things such as muscle pain and poor memory as a consequence of getting older and having diabetes, not realising that they are down to the medication. My side effects were extreme tiredness (Simvastatin) and extreme grumpiness (Pravastatin) both of which went away (more or less he said a bit grumpily) when I stopped the medication.

    Pro tip: it does no harm in the long run for the average statin user (not including those with severe CVD) to take a holiday from the pills now and then just in case there is a sudden lack of symptoms you didn't realise that you had. In the case of Pravastatin I went pill free for 6 months (including Metformin) just to try and separate out the effects of the pills from the effects of diet and exercise and was gently informed that my mood had improved enormously.

    Edit: as a footnote, and as nobody has mentioned it yet in this thread, isn't it interesting that one of the possible side effects of statins is the increased risk of developing diabetes. So once you have diabetes they give you statins. Go figure.
     
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  20. Bassiette

    Bassiette Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    It is not what im asking if my results become normal i should stop medication bit my doctor said i should stop at least after 2 months and i made it after one month so im asking about efficacy of drug could it do what is for two months in just one month that's was my question
     
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