Time to 'fess up

DeejayR

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,375
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
Treatment type
Diet only
It's taken me a while to believe I belong on this forum. I'm 73, active, teetotal, non-smoker, never been overweight, diagnosed with impaired glucose intolerance (score 42) last year and Type 2 (score 48) this April. I used to get what I now think were little hypos but generally I feel very well and cheerful. I'm overwhelmed chiefly by the kindness and understanding shown by everyone, but also by the the fact that some of you have been very ill with other complications for a long time. Also mentioned are multiple drugs with huge names I've never heard of. I take statins for cholesterol and aspirin for atrial fibrillation and I think that's a bit OTT.
So I'm in denial I suppose, and want to apologise for feeling so fit, but I'd like get stuck in. I got a load of printouts from the surgery today with (I hope ) all those figures you like to see. Where shall I start? :)
(I'm posting in Type 2 because I get confused reading about Type 1 without realising it in general threads. Sorry.)
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 people

zand

Master
Messages
10,784
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Well why don't you just start at the top and work your way through anything you don't understand. I'm sure someone can help you.:)

Are you only on aspirin for your AF? Is this because you have no symptoms? I ask because I was on lots of drugs for mine (thankfully none now though):)

Your newest HbA1c and ALT tests would be of interest to me, but I don't understand most of the tests myself I'm afraid!
 

Bluetit1802

Legend
Messages
25,216
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
Treatment type
Diet only
Hello,

@zand is right. Start at the beginning and ask about everything you don't understand. We are all here to help.

I've just been told to take one Junior Aspirin a day to "help with the blood flow" as I refused statins. This is the only medication I take and I also think this is a bit OTT. ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people

DeejayR

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,375
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
Treatment type
Diet only
Are you only on aspirin for your AF? Is this because you have no symptoms? I ask because I was on lots of drugs for mine (thankfully none now though):)

Your newest HbA1c and ALT tests would be of interest to me, but I don't understand most of the tests myself I'm afraid!
Hi there. Just aspirin 75mg daily. I get symptoms occasionally of rapid, weak heartbeat and just stop doing anything strenuous.
My last HbA1c in April was 48. What's ALT?
 

Yorksman

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,445
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
If your HBA1c is only 48, you don't have anything to worry about. Simply being careful with what you eat will most likely bring that down to below 40. I brought mine down from 86! Just learn a little about what you shold and shouldn'tt eat but in your case, it's only going to be small adjustments, nothing drastic.

Asprin stays in the blood for 2 to 3 days so I take one baby asprin every 2nd day and I changed from Simvastatin back to Atorvastatin because I had a lot of cramps and aches from the former. They have nearly all gone now. But, I also eat a lot of things like fish and olive oil so my cholesterol is quite low so, I might be able to come off it.

Learning about different foods and cooking can be enjoyable and that might be all you need to do, but you are only just over the 'diabetes line' anyway. Cutting down on white bread, if you eat a lot of it, might be the answer. I'd have a look at food, diet, recipes and try making some small alterations, nothing fancy, and see how that affects your readings in the future.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 6 people

Yorksman

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,445
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
What's ALT?

You may not have had an ALT. It's a liver function test and it is testing for an enzyme. Next time you have some tests, ask what they have tested for and ask for your results.
 

DeejayR

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,375
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
Treatment type
Diet only
@Yorksman cheers for that and haven't you done well! When I was diagnosed with impaired glucose tolerance I began a rigorous diet based on the NHS model and my HbA1c crept up to Type 2 level, so now I follow the LCHF diet. My BS level seems to be based around 5.2 and almost all of my after-meal readings have been within 2mmol except for a nasty scare of 12.8 after fish'n'chips! I didn't wash my hands after eating so it may be misleading but I it's a good reminder to me.
ALT: I've got 29 results for each blood test so it may be in there somewhere ...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 people

DeejayR

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,375
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
Treatment type
Diet only
Last night my BS before eating was 5.3, which is what I expected. I tested 2hrs after the meal -- one which normally ups my BS fewer than 2 millimols (my spelling) -- and it was 8.1. So I washed my hands and tested using the other hand and got 7.7. So I tested on the first hand, different finger, and got 6.9. I've read about these anomalies but what figure do you settle on? An average, or none?
Later I had strawberries and cream and 1hr 30min later a test at bedtime yielded 4.7.
 

Bluetit1802

Legend
Messages
25,216
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
Treatment type
Diet only
Last night my BS before eating was 5.3, which is what I expected. I tested 2hrs after the meal -- one which normally ups my BS fewer than 2 millimols (my spelling) -- and it was 8.1. So I washed my hands and tested using the other hand and got 7.7. So I tested on the first hand, different finger, and got 6.9. I've read about these anomalies but what figure do you settle on? An average, or none?
Later I had strawberries and cream and 1hr 30min later a test at bedtime yielded 4.7.

Isn't it annoying. It happens to me all the time. Personally I would average all readings as anyone could be the right one. Sometimes 2 of the 3 are very much the same, with one being miles off. In that case I would just average the 2 similar ones.

Well done with the strawberries and cream. What were you this morning after your 4.7 at bedtime? Was that 4.7 pretty normal? If not, did you re-test? If we re-test higher than expected numbers, so we should also re-test lower than expected ones, although it is very tempting just to claim them!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people

DeejayR

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,375
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
Treatment type
Diet only
@Bluetit1802 Yes, I've done a triple reading before now with the first high and the other two (different hands) exactly the same.
Below 5 is unusual for me but not unknown. Fasting test today was 4.9, also unusual since fasting tests have always been 5.1-5.3.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people

Yorksman

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,445
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
An average of 7.6 plus or minus 10% for meter inaccuracy could explain that range but, what I think is going on is this. When you eat, glucose is released into the blood stream. What you eat determines how quickly it is released. Even if it is released in one job lot, which is unlikely if you are careful with what you eat, it takes time to disperse equally in the blood stream. When your body detects glucose, it produces insulin, except in diabetics or pre diabetics, this can be sluggish. This insulin also also takes time to be transported around the body and to start working. It doesn't syphon out the glucose at a fast or even rate, hence you get differences.

Since type 2 diabetics are looking to have their 2 hour post meal reading below 7.8 for most readings, your figures are on the good side. They are slightly higher than one might like but it's not bad at all. Some poor souls are struggling with readings around 15 or higher. The fact that you got a 4.7 later shows that something is working. When I was diagnosed, I was still around 8.8 14 hours after a meal.

Your metabolic pathway is just somewhat sleepy and as I wrote earlier, you probably just need to be a bit careful with what you eat. I was told by a couple of guys on the Desmond course, one in his 70s the other in his 80s, that this particular metabolic pathway is prone to ageing just like any other part of the body.

I haven't been able to handle my drink like I used to for many years. It's the same with sugary foods.
 

DeejayR

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,375
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
Treatment type
Diet only
@Yorksman Thanks again. When my BS dips below my "norm" is that the inevitable sequel to a "high"? If you draw a graph of BS readings over time is there an equal distribution and relationship between highs & lows?
 

Yorksman

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,445
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
@Yorksman Thanks again. When my BS dips below my "norm" is that the inevitable sequel to a "high"? If you draw a graph of BS readings over time is there an equal distribution and relationship between highs & lows?

Yes there is a homeostatic process which keeps your blood glucose levels within a range as it goes up and down all day, and night, to fuel your body. It's not just exercise. Your brain needs fuelling too and is highly dependant on glucose being supplied to it. When you have digested what you have eaten and your blood is getting low on sugar, your body as a couple of ways of producing it if you do not eat. One is to chemically convert things like fatty acids and the other way is to deplete stores in the muscle.

Blood glucose variations of 21 individuals can be seen in this chart. You can see that they all drop from their highs but most start eating again before they get too low. A few do drop below the 60 point (US measurements) and in the absence of any signal saying food is available, the body starts to add some of its own to keep the person going.

Christiansen_2006_BloodGlucose21Individuals.PNG



Homeostasis, meaning 'same state' is the name given to a number of vital functions such as body temperature, blood oxygenation etc. They all work withing ranges. You can read about the homeostatic process for glucose controls here in the third bullet point down:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeostasis#Biological


Suckale08_fig3_glucose_insulin_day.png
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DeejayR

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,375
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
Treatment type
Diet only
I understand pictures better than figures. Would it help me to compile a graph as above with just my BS levels but with an average as well such as the 1, 2 & 3-week averages stored in my meter? I have less than a month's averages atm; they descend by one decimal point. I always ask myself what I know about what I'm about to eat, and a mental picture of a slow swell rather than uncomfortable peaks and troughs is motivating (I get seasick).
Right off topic, if the first graph was from an oscilloscope, what would it sound like?

Also, I think when I first dieted rigorously I started to lose muscle fat, at which point Mrs DeeJay dragged me off to the GP and forced her to look at my vanishing corpse, poor lady.
 

Yorksman

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,445
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Right off topic, if the first graph was from an oscilloscope, what would it sound like?

White Noise :)

It's from a site entitled, Blood glucose variations in normal individuals: A chaotic mess

I don't know how frequently the samples were taken but I doubt that you'd want to do that to your finger too often, bearing in mind, to be scientific, you'd have to use the same finger. The smoother graphs like the one below have fewer sampling points in time and use smoothing algorithms.

Most meters have some facility to export the data into some sort of software or, you can simply plot your own graph. iused to test a lot but, once y levels had come down and once I learned about food, I started to test less and less. I really only check first thing in a morning now and, as long as it is below 6.0, which is nearly always is, it ranges between 4.9 and 5.8, I'm happy.

You are probably better off using your meter to test the effect of certain foods and mentally categorise them, no problem, eat but take care on quantity, eat occasionally, best not but if you've been good recently eat with caution, avoid at all costs. I am careful with what I eat at home but if I am away, I will eat more or less what I want but not overdo it by tucking into things like apfelstudel. I still tend to avoid white flours, white rice etc but will eat wholegrain bread, wholegrain pasta, brown rice etc.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people

Bluetit1802

Legend
Messages
25,216
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
Treatment type
Diet only
I'm a bit of a data freak as far as my BS is concerned, although not very up technically. I record all my readings on an Excel spread sheet in columns, one each for each "event", such as fasting, pre lunch, +1hr +2hrs, bedtimes and so on and so forth. Then I can average each column, and also average the averages. I also have some of these events in graph form on Excel. I think for me at least this works well. I can average like for like and calculate whether my trends are up or down week by week or month by month, or even between each HbA1c. It works better than meter averages, as they are not like for like, and also contain those rogue readings we all get. These averages and graphs are what keep me motivated as I compete against myself.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 9 people

DeejayR

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,375
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
Treatment type
Diet only
White Noise :)

It's from a site entitled, Blood glucose variations in normal individuals: A chaotic mess

I don't know how frequently the samples were taken but I doubt that you'd want to do that to your finger too often, bearing in mind, to be scientific, you'd have to use the same finger. The smoother graphs like the one below have fewer sampling points in time and use smoothing algorithms.

Most meters have some facility to export the data into some sort of software or, you can simply plot your own graph. iused to test a lot but, once y levels had come down and once I learned about food, I started to test less and less. I really only check first thing in a morning now and, as long as it is below 6.0, which is nearly always is, it ranges between 4.9 and 5.8, I'm happy.

You are probably better off using your meter to test the effect of certain foods and mentally categorise them, no problem, eat but take care on quantity, eat occasionally, best not but if you've been good recently eat with caution, avoid at all costs. I am careful with what I eat at home but if I am away, I will eat more or less what I want but not overdo it by tucking into things like apfelstudel. I still tend to avoid white flours, white rice etc but will eat wholegrain bread, wholegrain pasta, brown rice etc.
Wow, how clever, you've answered a lot of my next questions between you. I was about to look up the Codefree cable & software; alternatively Mrs DeeJayR is a whizz with Excel etc.
One final question for the moment: I eat a lot, especially vegetables, and my weight is still edging downwards if anything (bmi 20). I don't have a daily carb ration to eat to. Does that matter? How much does suitability score over quantity?

*EDIT* Sorry, I tried to reply to Bluetit as well
 

Bluetit1802

Legend
Messages
25,216
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
Treatment type
Diet only
If what you are currently eating is bringing your levels down, then you are on the right track with carbs. Most of us count them, but it isn't necessary if you can do it without. However, if you are losing weight with a BMI of 20, perhaps you need to increase your calories a tad. Perhaps more protein if you don't overdo it, but better still, extra good fats such as nuts, olive oil, cheese, butter on your veggies, yogurts and cream. Again, only sufficient to replace those lost calories. This may mean a bit of calorie counting if you can't find the right balance without. Maintaining target weight is quite difficult on low carb diets, as I know.
 

Yorksman

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,445
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Whilst most type 2 diabetics try to lose weight and, if there is enough weight loss, the progression of the disease is halted, it is not true for all type 2 diabetics. Most type 2 diabetics start with excess fats in the liver which then start to build up in the pancreas and block the insulin producing islets. They in turn start to die off. However, you must be open to the possibility that this is not what is going on with you and it might just be age related. If you want to continue to lose weight, just carry on as you are, it is afterall working but, you could start eating some complex carbohydrates in small amounts, say as 60 g portion of brown rice rather than a 90 g portion of white rice. Same could be true for wholewheat noodle and wholewheat pasta. Also, if you eat beans lentils, most pulses actually, they are very slow to release the carbs and a high percentage of the carns will not be digested anyway. Typically these foods give you wind because they are broken down by bacteria in the lower intestine and not by enzymes in the stomache. You should be able to maintain your weight without making your BG levels rise and still have interesting meals.

Mediterranean style meals are also good. Olive oil and a little bit of wine or balsamic vinegar goes well with tomatoes, olives, hams and salamis, salad greens, feta cheese, manchego cheese and a little bit of a wholegrain bread. Fish too. I like 100% wholegrain rye with mackerel in a spicy tomato sauce.
 

DeejayR

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,375
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
Treatment type
Diet only
Right. I've started trying small amounts of extra carbs with my usual food at lunchtimes. Today I had a wholemeal roll with cheese and home-made veg soup with butter added and it spiked me from 5.2 to 8.4 in 2 hours. So I went for a good walk and then got a hypo warning on my Codefree meter at 4.4. The symbol is a boiled sweet! Never heard of such a thing. I found a bit of apple.
I banned balsamic vinegar a year ago but I do like it so I'll give it a go again. There's so much sugar lurking in so many condiments & sauces but we use so little .... confusing.
Thanks to both for your help :)