What is the expected blood sugar reading if a diabetic uses a severe Atkins diet?

[yetta2mymom]

Hi
I have good reason to believe that I have simulated what a diabetic would get if they used a severe Atkins diet for app 7 years. Over that time my blood sugar had a very slight upwards bias. My most recent readings are 99 fasting and 5.8 A1C. Is this what you would expect?

 

[paulliljeros]

If you don't have diabetes, can you please explain what you mean by simulate what a diabetic would get?

 

[Bluetit1802]

I have converted your fasting to a UK number as most members use the UK measurement unit.. It is 5.5mmol/l.
There is a conversion chart here
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/blood-sugar-converter.html

 

[zand]

Who knows? It depends on the individual and the type of diabetes. How long is a piece of string?

 

[yetta2mymom]

If you don't have diabetes, can you please explain what you mean by simulate what a diabetic would get?

Hi

I have an autoimmune disease which gives me fatigue whenever I create insulin. I have the "hunter" gene (note only people with this gene can get my problem), you detect the "hunter" gene by taking a glucose tolerance test. With this test people with the "hunter" gene have there blood sugar rise for over 2 hours before it crashes. With the "hunter" gene you do not process sugar until your blood sugar rises (unknown level). So to avoid fatigue I have to keep my blood sugar low enough so I do not create insulin. Thus I never produce insulin (maybe occasionally) with my diet.
I am writing this and other properties related to the "hunter" gene for the Scientific American. The gene was detected and named by a weight loss doctor who found people with this gene do not lose weight on his weight loss program. I have to work to lose weight on my severe Atkins diet because I do not waste energy creating fat and then changing the fat back to sugar. For people in the near east this gene is prevalent. I assume that failing monsoons created famines. If you have read this you should realize that people are more likely to survive famines with this gene.

 

[LittleGreyCat]

Hmmm....if you don't produce insulin then you are a T1 Diabetic and insulin dependant. Or dead.

Perhaps a reference or two to scientific studies?

 

[Kristin251]

Taking a glucose tolerance test and having your bs rise higher than normal for over 2 hours before dropping and not processing sugar IS diabetes.

Fluctuating and rising bs definitely can cause fatigue

 

[yetta2mymom]

Hmmm....if you don't produce insulin then you are a T1 Diabetic and insulin dependant. Or dead.

Perhaps a reference or two to scientific studies?

Hmmm....if you don't produce insulin then you are a T1 Diabetic and insulin dependant. Or dead.

Perhaps a reference or two to scientific studies?

See post below. I have another autoimmune disease only found with people who have the "hunter" gene. We get fatigue which can be controlled by never letting our blood sugar go to high (not defined at present). People with the "hunter" gene do not create insulin until their blood sugar rises. This is great for famines. Women with this gene have problems controlling blood sugar with pregnancy. People with this gene tend to get fat (not inevitable) with the modern diet. I do not know the other problems with this gene which must exist because it is only prevalent in the near east (falling monsoons) and possibly with other populations which go from a hunter type life style to the modern world.

 

[paulliljeros]

OK, so back to your original post, at the risk of generalising, for most non-T1s, it is indeed true that if they don't eat carbs, the pancreas will not need to produce insulin, BG won't rise, and the A1c and BG will indeed be "normal" and I would say that getting a BG of 5 - 6 mmol is to be expected. All your posts, contain the key words hunter, autoimmune and atkins - it would be intersting to find out if you are acutally trying to promote something, as I'm afraid thats how it feels to me.

 

[Bluetit1802]

I have the "hunter" gene (note only people with this gene can get my problem), you detect the "hunter" gene by taking a glucose tolerance test. With this test people with the "hunter" gene have there blood sugar rise for over 2 hours before it crashes.

Sounds very like Reactive Hypoglycemia to me. Plenty of sufferers of this on the forum. I've never heard any of them described as having a hunter gene. I wonder if @nosher8355 knows. He has a top Endo on his case. He isn't diabetic either.

 

[yetta2mymom]

Sounds very like Reactive Hypoglycemia to me. Plenty of sufferers of this on the forum. I've never heard any of them described as having a hunter gene. I wonder if @nosher8355 knows. He has a top Endo on his case. He isn't diabetic either.

Hi

Definitely not standard reactive hypoglycemia. I was contacted by the people who run this forum and gave them the information I had at the time. They seemed impressed. I only know of 4 people with my problem. It may simply not be diagnosed since 3 of these people have not been diagnosed by doctors. With this problem if you eat a lot of sugar/starch/alcohol you get low blood sugar (one episode in 1963 felt like I was close to death) many hours after eating the sugar. In a sense you are right my processing of sugar is fouled up and I get lower (60) readings when I feel bad but I feel much worse than someone who stays at 60. The publisher of Scientific American says he will publish an article I have written (seeing will be believing). The doctor who (can't find him) called it the "hunter" gene (Public Broadcasting U.S.) said people with this gene did not lose weight on his weight loss program. I have theorized, with supporting evidence, that you save energy by not making fat and then sugar from the fat. Instead you let the blood sugar rise until the body decides it better do something. It then does a bang up job. I do not naturally lose weight on a severe Atkins diet. I have to cut calories per any diet. If you have the time and interest I can post the latest version of my article for the Scientific American.

 

[yetta2mymom]

OK, so back to your original post, at the risk of generalising, for most non-T1s, it is indeed true that if they don't eat carbs, the pancreas will not need to produce insulin, BG won't rise, and the A1c and BG will indeed be "normal" and I would say that getting a BG of 5 - 6 mmol is to be expected. All your posts, contain the key words hunter, autoimmune and atkins - it would be intersting to find out if you are acutally trying to promote something, as I'm afraid thats how it feels to me.

OK, so back to your original post, at the risk of generalising, for most non-T1s, it is indeed true that if they don't eat carbs, the pancreas will not need to produce insulin, BG won't rise, and the A1c and BG will indeed be "normal" and I would say that getting a BG of 5 - 6 mmol is to be expected. All your posts, contain the key words hunter, autoimmune and atkins - it would be intersting to find out if you are acutally trying to promote something, as I'm afraid thats how it feels to me.

Hi

You could say I am promoting my article that the publisher says will appear in the Scientific American. I found one of the 4 people I know have my symptoms by placing an ad in the New York Times they made me remove Atkins but Atkins was what gave me the courage to remove grains, fruit and potatoes and such from my diet. I am trying to find the doctor (Public Broadcasting U.S.) who called my type glucose tolerance test (rising for over 2 hours) the "hunter" gene. I hope someone will know and I can communicate with him. A nurse, originally from India knew that the women who had sugar problems in pregnancy had a different gene, did he contact someone from India? I have been unable to collaborate that about 1/2 the people in the near east have my gene. 2 Indians have told me that.

 

[yetta2mymom]

I have converted your fasting to a UK number as most members use the UK measurement unit.. It is 5.5mmol/l.
There is a conversion chart here
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/blood-sugar-converter.html

Hi

Thanks. I have a "hunter" gene described as leading to a glucose tolerance test which increases for a least 2 hours by a doctor on Public Broadcasting U.S.. I had a probable autoimmune response (think type 1 diabetes) in 1957 and started getting symptoms. It took many years to figure out (about 58) what was probably wrong. I concluded (have communicated with the people who run this blog) that I do not start processing sugar until my blood sugar rises to an unknown level (may be even more complicated than that) and that the timing of the insulin (and other enzymes) release has been fouled up by a destruction of 1 type cell in my adrenal glands (expert says (paraphrase) possible, even probable, but not proved). With my diet I probably never or seldom release insulin. I think this has not been detrimental, in fact I am slowly removing pills I take for blood pressure (there is a rebound effect) as I guess that too much insulin is why many people get cardiovascular problems.

 

[Lamont D]

I think we have been here before!

I do have the same 'reaction' as you when I eat carbs, sugars, grains dairy, etc.
The only element that is notably different is that you spike later than me!
In fact, by the time you spike I'm already slowly coming down.
I don't crash as such, I just keep producing insulin slowly but surely until I eat again and it has to be low carb, to restrict the production of more insulin.

I am eating very low carb and intermittent fasting to keep my body as insulin free as possible. My trigger (carbs and such) is one that has an overabundance of cells that trigger insulin. My 'off switch' is abnormal.

I think you do have a form of hypoglycaemia, and having discussed with hypoglycaemic sufferers, none of us are similar in how we react and what triggers and the time it takes to spike and hypo is different.
The closest I've seen is a patient with my endocrinologist, who has similar on a graph except at the hypo stage, where I went below three fifteen minutes before the other patient. Both had similar spikes and the drop.
This was a prolonged OGTT.

I haven't had a hypo for over two years now, my control is very good and I believe that the gliptin inhibitor I take, helps as well!

See post below. I have another autoimmune disease only found with people who have the "hunter" gene. We get fatigue which can be controlled by never letting our blood sugar go to high (not defined at present). People with the "hunter" gene do not create insulin until their blood sugar rises. This is great for famines. Women with this gene have problems controlling blood sugar with pregnancy. People with this gene tend to get fat (not inevitable) with the modern diet. I do not know the other problems with this gene which must exist because it is only prevalent in the near east (falling monsoons) and possibly with other populations which go from a hunter type life style to the modern world.

 

[Lamont D]

Hmmm....if you don't produce insulin then you are a T1 Diabetic and insulin dependant. Or dead.

Perhaps a reference or two to scientific studies?

I try not to produce insulin!

I've been told that I should be dead because of what I have to do to stay healthy.
And I am not going anywhere for quite a while!
Also, definitely, not T1!
Also, I do have a scientific paper about me!
I'm patient 'A'!

 

[yetta2mymom]

Hi

Thanks. I have a "hunter" gene described as leading to a glucose tolerance test which increases for a least 2 hours by a doctor on Public Broadcasting U.S.. I had a probable autoimmune response (think type 1 diabetes) in 1957 and started getting symptoms. It took many years to figure out (about 58) what was probably wrong. I concluded (have communicated with the people who run this blog) that I do not start processing sugar until my blood sugar rises to an unknown level (may be even more complicated than that) and that the timing of the insulin (and other enzymes) release has been fouled up by a destruction of 1 type cell in my adrenal glands (expert says (paraphrase) possible, even probable, but not proved). With my diet I probably never or seldom release insulin. I think this has not been detrimental, in fact I am slowly removing pills I take for blood pressure (there is a rebound effect) as I guess that too much insulin is why many people get cardiovascular problems.

Hi

I have been rejected by the local "expert?" on reactive hypoglycemia because my glucose tolerance test is not the one expected. I think you may have the gene and my problem. When I did not know what was happening the low blood sugar (or symptoms of same) occurred enough hours after eating that I do not know how long after it was. It is possible that it occurred similarly as yours. In case you are interested, test in 1964. 70, 1/2 hr 135, 1hr 170, 2hr 180 extended 3hr 100. I probably had a very minor low blood sugar episode about 1/2 hour after that (very mild shaking as I was leaving the hospital). I note that 2 of the people who I know of with my problem just suffer with the fatigue rather than change to an extreme diet. This is exactly what the doctor on PBS presented as the "hunter" gene. This is also the type of test found in many people in the near east. Women with this test have problems with controlling sugar during pregnancy (note: I am trying to get doctors to realize this, this is a case of the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing). The diet doctor said people with this test do not lose weight on his weight loss diet. I do not easily lose weight on my extreme Atkins type diet (do not waste energy producing insulin and storing sugar). I have cut back and hopefully I will lose some of my weight. I have written that people with this gene tend to become fat on the western diet (from anecdotal evidence, this is not inevitable). I have written that maybe this is the problem of the plains American Indians, some of the people in the near east, Pacific Islanders etc... when they change to the western diet. My theory is that people in the near east have had numerous famines when the monsoon failed, the others were eating a hunter diet for which this gene was originally designed.

 

[LittleGreyCat]

A quick Google of "hunter gene" turns up reference to ADHD.

 

[Indy51]

The only reference I can find to a "hunter gene" is a theory of autism/ADHD:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_vs._farmer_hypothesis

Possibly the gene is FTO (aka the "fat gene")? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FTO_gene

Not knowing the particulars of your autoimmune disease, it makes further speculation difficult.

 

[LittleGreyCat]

Just to discuss a bit further.

My understanding (which may well be wrong) is that a functioning pancreas always produces a small amount of insulin - a sort of background level - throughout the day. Perhaps a bit like the basal insulin that T1s often take.

When blood sugar rises, the insulin production ramps up to match - again perhaps much like T1s take fast acting insulin to match the spikes produced by eating.

T2s in general either don't produce enough insulin, and/or their metabolism is resistant to the insulin So they don't catch the sugar spike before it goes over optimal levels and in more extreme cases the blood glucose level stays dangerously high all the time. So T2s can have continual high concentrations of both insulin and glucose in the blood. The control mechanism isn't working as designed.

In reactive hypoglycemia too much insulin is produced and/or the insulin is produced for too long. This results in a crash in blood glucose after eating because again the control mechanism isn't working as designed.

In the OP's case there seems to be a very long delay before insulin production ramps up, resulting in a long period after eating with high BG before the insulin cycle kicks in. The OP also states the BG "crashes" which implies that BG then goes below normal. This looks like slow motion reactive hypoglycemia. Again the control mechanism not working as designed.

However without constant monitoring of blood insulin levels it is not clear to me if this is the result of delayed production of extra insulin, or a delayed tissue response to the insulin due to insulin resistance which in turn leads to over production of insulin. As far as I can see both lead to much the same result when observed.

Whatever the root cause, it seems that eating something similar to LCHF (such as the Atkins diet) should minimise the spikes due to carbohydrates being converted to glucose.

Also noted that fatigue is one of the symptoms of high blood glucose levels.

I can't at the moment see the benefit to a hunter of running continually high BG levels. Trained muscles have their own built in glucose stores for immediate use, then there are the glycogen stores in other tissues, including the liver, and beyond that fat is available to release more energy if required.

My understanding of the cursive hunter (which is allegedly our origin as hunter/gatherer) is that we evolved to run down prey over an extended period with minimal energy expenditure (much like wolves) which is more efficient over a longer period than the bursts of energy used by prey to escape an immediate threat. After a kill the cursive hunter either brings the meat home to the family to gorge on or (perhaps and) gorges on the prey to replenish energy stores and build up fat reserves as a future energy store. We don't carry that much direct energy (glucose) in our blood and our other tissues and fat is the storage mechanism for medium and long term energy use. So, as I said, I don't see any evolutionary advantage to running a consistently high BG level. For context, a reasonably trained non-diabetic runner can run about 20 miles on immediate energy stores.

So, as I said before, some kind of scientific reference would be very useful at this point.

 

[Indy51]

Just occurred to me that maybe the OP is referring to the "thrifty gene hypothesis"?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thrifty_gene_hypothesis