What is the story with Diabetes UK?

pleinster

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Sadly there have been times when this site has been combative as well. I can understand that people are pleased with a positive result but when they get that they seem to want to push it onto others as if it is the only way to go. It got to the point on a couple of occasions when supporters of a diet left this site to form a new site of their own. Since they all agreed with each other they ran out of things to say.

The way I read DUK is that they don't want something similar happening to them.

I get what you're saying...but I still think that's a poor excuse for not providing good information on the potential of diets other than that which they narrow-mindedly and sloppily call "healthy". Of course, we are all individuals and obviously low carb is not the ONLY way...but the crucial point is that we ARE individuals, and to say that their recommended diet/ the NHS healthy diet is rather general would be a serious understatement. Whatever the reasons, Diabetes UK and the NHS generally need to progress in this area...otherwise they are potentially doing damage.
 
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pleinster

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I got bounced by Moderators when I posted a serious question on LCHF, I was banned for a month

Dinosaurs versus meteors and climate change...but more arrogant as they must at least have a scents of the reality in the air !
 
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6,107
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DUK got into bed with ASDA who sponsored their latest book launch. They also hold their open days in ASDA stores, and the prizes for their raffles are also supplied by ASDA, So yes, they are totally dependant on their sponsors.
There was an amusing incident at Tesco a couple of years ago when they said they were in partnership with DUK and gave a book away for free. At the same time they were running a raffle. At the checkout you were given a raffle ticket for free and I ended up with two of them. I asked about the prize and was shown a large wicker basket full of chocolate products.
****/elbow/****/elbow.
 
Messages
6,107
Type of diabetes
Type 2
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Diet only
I get what you're saying...but I still think that's a poor excuse for not providing good information on the potential of diets other than that which they narrow-mindedly and sloppily call "healthy". Of course, we are all individuals and obviously low carb is not the ONLY way...but the crucial point is that we ARE individuals, and to say that their recommended diet/ the NHS healthy diet is rather general would be a serious understatement. Whatever the reasons, Diabetes UK and the NHS generally need to progress in this area...otherwise they are potentially doing damage.
I agree that it's a poor excuse but I am beginning to believe it to be a valid one. They are reluctant to move away from the traditional dogma. Dr Roger Unger called it Dogma Displacement Inertia. What seems to be in dispute is where we are moving to and there are factions who vociferously say me me me.

By the way, every time someone says eat healthily I feel like locking them in a room until they define it since up till now it just seems like a quick way of getting you out of the doctor's office.

My feeling is that they have already sold their soul to the Devil in being more concerned with donations than anything else.

We were all waiting with baited breath for their appearance before the All Party Parliamentary Party on Health to debate diabetes. Their rep didn't even turn up. One journalist said Dr Elizabeth Robertson was unable to defend the indefensible.

http://healthinsightuk.org/2017/04/...-to-discuss-the-obvious-low-carb-alternative/
 
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Tannith

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I joined them a year ago for a bit. I found if I posted anything positive about LCHF the debate was shut down with fairly hostile reactions. I've just read a few threads on LCHF and whilst its obviously appearing more and more, there seems to be a lot more focus on the downsides compared to here. its also quite confusing because the posters don't differentiate T1 and T2 so the answers seem muddled.

I think a lot of the problems stem from a misunderstanding of what LCHF actually is - a REAL FOODS diet with limited carbs and moderate proteins necessary for nutritional needs and the balance made up of fats. It is SUCH a shame it is called LCHF as that seems to fly in the face of everything everyone "Knows" . In any event its clear that when a website is supported by the food industry, it is going to continue to put out articles as to which brand of biscuit rather than saying get rid of the biscuits.

They continually put out misleading tweets. I reacted to one which defined friendship as " providing the needed slice of toast after a run " They came back and explained that this was a post about how a friend of a T1 diabetic person, had provided toast to counteract a hypo. - As a message tweeted to all and sundry with no context it was just bizarre.
if you look at their tweets, you can see that they have basically put their eggs i the "More exercise" camp - nearly all of the photos they provide are something to do with running or walking.

when they do tweet feed it includes such nonsense as

Jacket potatoes
Try filling potatoes with baked beans, jazzed up with some chilli powder or cayenne pepper, and a few mushrooms and caramelised onions.




    • Use food labels to choose healthier sandwiches, and cut down on your intake of salt and fat by choosing fruit and bottled water over crisps and fizzy drinks.
    • Try to avoid shopping for lunch (or any food!) when you’re really hungry – you might buy more than you need and you're more likely to make a less healthy choice.
    • Swap a canned drink for a diet version and save around 6tsp sugar.
    • coke90x90.jpg
      Cut back on fat by choosing baked crisps as a healthier alternative to fried.
    • Choose a two-finger chocolate wafer biscuit, rather than a standard chocolate bar, and save on both fat and calories.
With the best will in the world - its frighteningly inadequate advice that still meets the healthy eating plate- is notionally " good for you " , doesn't upset its food sponsors and leaves people with diabetes none the wiser. .

I deleted my account.
Are they backed by the food nindustry? If so do you know by whom?
 
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CherryAA

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https://www.diabetes.org.uk/get_involved/corporate/acknowledgements

In reverse order a veritable roll CALL OF VESTED INTERESTS
Tesco is the main one
Tefal - specialising in " low fat fryers"
Novo Nordisk - insulin manufacturers
Lilly Diabetes - insulin access
Champneys - offering retreats including Daphne courses
Bupa - offering healthy balanced diet advice plus reading the traffic lights whilst ignoring the carbs but encouraging sign up to BUPA
BUPA services - offering all manner of advice to professionals including the following gems
People should be advised to:
  1. Eat regular meals
  2. Include some carbohydrate foods in their diet
  3. Eat less saturated fats, especially from processed meat and foods
  4. Aim for at least five portions of fruit and vegetables a day
  5. Eat more beans, pulses and lentils
  6. Eat at least two portions of oily fish a week
  7. Eat less sugar and sugary foods
  8. Reduce salt in their diet to 6g or less a day
  9. Watch their overall portion sizes, especially when trying to lose weight
  10. Avoid ‘diabetic’ foods and drinks.
    GREAT QUOTES FROM THE PROFESSIONAL ACCESS
"Blood glucose self-monitoring should be offered to people on insulin treatment and those on medications that carry a risk of hypoglycaemia."

"As Type 2 diabetes is a progressive condition, treatment may change over time. There is likely to be a point when lifestyle changes are not enough to control blood glucose levels and medication may need to be considered."

and finally


Betavivo
"
Betavivo is a crispy oat heart-shaped cereal with a high concentration of beta-glucan (3g per serving). One portion of Betavivo contains three times the amount of bioactive beta-glucan than a standard bowl of porridge. Beta-glucan is a fibre that forms a gel in the gastrointestinal tract and acts as a protective barrier, which slows down the absorption of carbohydrates.

Betavivo has been scientifically proven to help contribute to the reduction of blood glucose rise after eating and have been shown to reduce blood cholesterol levels by an average of 10 per cent over 12 weeks."

Ingredients
60% Oat bran (contains gluten), oatmeal, fructose

A daily portion of Betavivo crispy oat heart cereal is scientifically proven to lower cholesterol. The unique process and patented formula of Betavivo gives a high concentration of cholesterol-lowering beta-glucan. In order to have the same effect on cholesterol, you would have to eat at least three big bowls of porridge. The beta-glucan in Betavivo also contributes to reducing the rise in blood sugar after the meal.


OVERALL I am sure that its sponsors really pave the way to great advice for diabetics.
FRANKLY I WOULDN'T TOUCH IT WITH A BARGE POLE FOR OBVIOUS REASONS.
 
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KathyCP

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207
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Type 2
I would also stress that I believe very strongly in the principle of an NHS and have benefited tremendously from it. I admire the surgeons, doctors, nurses and carers very much. I am less than enamoured of the managers (generally) and can see that on the issue of control of diabetes, while the professionals I have dealt with personally are excellent...things are less than ideal. Hopefully, this is changing slowly for the better.

I certainly don't want to bash the NHS, it's a great institution and I'm very grateful for the care I've had from it. But having worked in it as a health professional myself, I am under no illusion about how many of the professionals working in it are completely dismissive of any ideas that haven't been rubber-stamped by the medical profession. I never met an NHS colleague whose heart wasn't in the right place, but sadly, an open-minded attitude or respect for patients' knowledge and/or experience wasn't exactly a key feature of the way most of them operated.
 

KathyCP

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Messages
207
Type of diabetes
Type 2
It looks like the culture is cast in concrete per the little bit I just read.
Diabetes UK link. .. "What to do if LCHF shows up on our forum? Report them."
Send in the thought police.

and that's the trouble - it's not about saying that everyone should be on a lchf diet, but letting people know that it can, and often does, really help with controlling bg levels. personally i think it's wildly irresponsible, if not downright immoral, for the leading national charity to be handing out advice which completely ignores the negative effect that carbs can have, as many of us know to our cost.
 
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Oldvatr

Expert
Messages
8,470
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
DUK do organise local support groups and local fund raising events. I live in a large county, and there is not one in my county, but there is a DUK centre in a local town but every time I ring them or look at their website it is all about how big a donation am I making???????? ***! I want help and support too. I got better support from the Stroke people who came to me at home to discuss a way forward. I was given loads of documentation and a useful forum website with a local meeting support group. but since I was unable to drive at the time, I was not able to get to those meetings,
 
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GrantGam

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Messages
2,603
Type of diabetes
Type 1
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Insulin
I do believe that @DCUKMod / @AndBreathe is an active member of the Diabetes UK forum (as well as our own. forum) - so it's entirely possible that you may get all of your questions answered by her directly in good time:)

Ladies and gentlemen, it's been an absolute pleasure:hilarious:

Grant x
 

DCUKMod

Master
Staff Member
Messages
14,298
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Thank you for tagging me @GrantGam.

Yes, I do post on the DUK forum, as an ordinary member, and I am involved in my local DUK group, but on that basis, I doubt I have any more answers to "why they do what" than any other ordinary member there.
 
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Oldvatr

Expert
Messages
8,470
Type of diabetes
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Thank you for tagging me GrantGam.

Yes, I do post on the DUK forum, as an ordinary member, and I am involved in my local DUK group, but on that basis, I doubt I have any more answers to "why they do what" than any other ordinary member there.
Very diplomatic reply here. I saw you posting on the other forum too, as well as others. But I gave up after getting too much flak. I soon realised that site held no advances for me.
 

kokhongw

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Messages
2,394
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
and that's the trouble - it's not about saying that everyone should be on a lchf diet, but letting people know that it can, and often does, really help with controlling bg levels. personally i think it's wildly irresponsible, if not downright immoral, for the leading national charity to be handing out advice which completely ignores the negative effect that carbs can have, as many of us know to our cost.

That is why this site has grown so remarkably...because it has been changing lives and empowering people with the right info to regain their health.
 

bulkbiker

BANNED
Messages
19,576
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
I had the misfortune of encountering a DUK Representative at my local CCG meeting about the future of diabetes treatment in our area.
She wasn't diabetic but her husband was a Type 2 . To say she was anti LCHF would be an understatement. As soon as I mentioned what I had done she started to pooh pooh the idea. Claimed that Type 2 was progressive and eventually would lead to insulin injections.. I felt quite sorry for her husband...
 

DCUKMod

Master
Staff Member
Messages
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Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Very diplomatic reply here. I saw you posting on the other forum too, as well as others. But I gave up after getting too much flak. I soon realised that site held no advances for me.

Let's be fair, no forum, pub, tennis club, or whatever is right for everyone. In an online community we all look for different things, albeit there is a similarly common purpose to both this and DUK's communities.

As you say, lots of people use multiple communities where they may find different sorts of support or where they are more or less active. People dip in and dip out. There's nothing wrong with that.
 

Gerry_Tosh

Newbie
Messages
1
Can anyone tell me why Diabetes UK still gives people such dreadful advice about diet? Since joining this forum, I have realised how many thousands of us there must be who have had brilliant results by adopting an LCHF diet - I don't for a moment want to suggest that everyone should follow it, and it may not work for everyone, but I would have thought that anyone with T2 should at least be told that it's worth trying to see what sort of an effect it has. Seeing as Diabetes UK is the leading national charity/organisation whose remit is to support people with diabetes, I find it pretty shocking that they seem to be so off beam.
DUK has funded a few trials on LC effects including Newcastle and Glasgow with Pro Mike Lean. They are not a perfect org but they do a great job like no other in the UK. They fund huge amounts of research hence the annual Professional Conferences that I have been proud to have been to 6 of them. I must declare an interest as I was on the board of DUK for 6 years. They do not have a cosy relationship with the NHS and hold them to account at every opportunity. I also like Diabetes.co.UK and find some of the discussions very helpful.
 

KathyCP

Well-Known Member
Messages
207
Type of diabetes
Type 2
DUK has funded a few trials on LC effects including Newcastle and Glasgow with Pro Mike Lean. They are not a perfect org but they do a great job like no other in the UK. They fund huge amounts of research hence the annual Professional Conferences that I have been proud to have been to 6 of them. I must declare an interest as I was on the board of DUK for 6 years. They do not have a cosy relationship with the NHS and hold them to account at every opportunity. I also like Diabetes.co.UK and find some of the discussions very helpful.

i take your point about the good work that DUK does, but i personally don't think that that negates the damage they can do by telling people they must eat carbs to stay healthy, and then implying that carbs are only found in starchy foods, sugary snacks or fruit. what about telling people about how carbs from those sources can push up bg levels, and say that there are other ways of getting enough carbs into your system? i know there are politics involved, but a little more even-handedness about what they recommend would be brilliant.
 

Jeannier9

Member
Messages
8
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Dislikes
Exercise, salads, mushy foods.
Can anyone tell me why Diabetes UK still gives people such dreadful advice about diet? Since joining this forum, I have realised how many thousands of us there must be who have had brilliant results by adopting an LCHF diet - I don't for a moment want to suggest that everyone should follow it, and it may not work for everyone, but I would have thought that anyone with T2 should at least be told that it's worth trying to see what sort of an effect it has. Seeing as Diabetes UK is the leading national charity/organisation whose remit is to support people with diabetes, I find it pretty shocking that they seem to be so off beam.
Omg...... This is my first post on this forum, as I was only seeing the typical T2 eating methods and management, but then read this today. Up until this moment I thought I was the only one of a few doing a LCHF living methodology. My doctor is the only one in our area that has studied this in depth, and researched those that put forward other methodologies, a lot of whom are subsidised by the very industry that provides our medication. How motivated is that industry to help remove T2? Not at all. That impacts their $$$$. When first diagnosed (May 2017) I had to work extensively with my doctor as both the diabetic coach and dietician were both focussed on the typical 'lots of small meals' throughout the day etc.
Since starting, my Metformin has been cut by 50% and I've lost 22 lbs, and still reducing.
Those at my office have asked about this lifestyle, as they have seen the benefits. Although I'm still wading through the 'bible' my doctor told me to read "The Obesity Code" by Jason Fung, which is a HUGE eye opener, although very dry reading, as a big food lover I find getting through the week a little tiresome food-wise, as an ex-pat Brit, I spent my life eating meat and 2 veg and miss the baked and roast potatoes and all the traditional British foods, but love the once a weekend 'cheat', making everything worthwhile. :)
Did I say I was excited to know how many others are also following this? hehe