Why cant I lower blood sugar

[catapillar]

My spikes are generally 7.8 around 1hr after dinner then back to around 6.5 2-3 hours later slowly dropping to 5.8

Pretty non diabetic peaks then, much like your fasting readings, - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2769652/

 

[sheepie123]

My hba1c 6 months ago was 48 and doctor said it was borderline I didn't trust him so I.put on an extra stone and kept all the sugar I ever did. Within 6 months its rose to 55. And now I'm taking it seriously. I know many have it for years so it looks like mine was picked up early despite me not taking it seriously 6 months ago

 

[spook_kate_]

As a T1, I'm wary about venturing into a T2 question, but I'm an inquisitive little fecker so will do so anyway!

As other posters have correctly pointed out, you would be dead long before your blood sugar reached zero.

The easy question to ask is why would you want to have a zero blood sugar, but the fact you've even asked a question about zeroing suggests to me the answer is that you've seen a huge number of posts here more or less demonising carbs, their effect on readings, and concluded that it's logical to zero it.

I take my hat off to you guys/gals who do keto, lchf, fasting: each to their own and all that. Those options do seem to work very well for T2s. Indeed, as a T1, I occasionally end up as an accidental low carber: who could complain about some griilled lamb chops and asparagus? Still have my omelette on toast, though!

But the thing which concerns me a bit is that when a new poster signs up, whether they're T1, T2, or some of the other wonderful variations on those themes, the overwhelming response is often a screed of posts that, "ok, mate, just do lchf, and you'll be fine."

That might be perfectly correct for T2s, but two problems:

First, the OP seems to have interpreted that as meaning carbs are so bad, so evil, that he/she is starving to try to zero. Serious misunderstanding of basic body chemistry going on there which could result in death. Should the lchf crew qualify their advice to make it clear that there's a difference between what carbs you eat, and what glucose is in your stream? The demonising of carbs which any reader of this site has seen blurs the difference.

Second, as I've said above, I'm an occasional low carber, but I recall when I was first dx'd and told I'll need several injections each day for the rest of my life, that was a bit of a head-f*ck on it's own, and it would have put me over the edge if I was then told that, by the way, I can never eat any carbs again. Yet, I've seen a fair few posts here immediately recommending an lchf diet to newly dx'd T1s, from T2s! Lchf is a choice we can all make further down the line, but I'm not sure it's proper to suggest it to a newly dx'd T1 when they've got enough to get their head round already.

Well put!!

 

[Freema]

the high spikes seems to be what does the most damage , and when doing low carb those spikes are usually absent, and then a little higher basal is maybe not really a problem; as almost all statistic seems to indicate that it is the high spikes like over 7.5 mmol and and ever very raised blood glucose, higher than 7.5 also seems to do much damage over time, sometimes faster sometimes slower or if one is lucky or maybe have good genes the damage doesn´t occure not even after many years, but this is not a risk I would take gambling against that bad odds...

the low carbing eatings style sort of cuts off all the upper part of the ordinary much more fluctuating blood glucose patterns..and this of cause gives space to a little raised (not much but still) lower level of ones blood glucose..
so maybe 4.5 is the ideal blood glucose, but in most normal people the highs would get the HbA1c a little higher , and all those littel or bigger high are cut away in low carbing eating style..

http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/14045678.php

 

[Freema]

My hba1c 6 months ago was 48 and doctor said it was borderline I didn't trust him so I.put on an extra stone and kept all the sugar I ever did. Within 6 months its rose to 55. And now I'm taking it seriously. I know many have it for years so it looks like mine was picked up early despite me not taking it seriously 6 months ago

http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/16422495.php

 

[ickihun]

My hba1c 6 months ago was 48 and doctor said it was borderline I didn't trust him so I.put on an extra stone and kept all the sugar I ever did. Within 6 months its rose to 55. And now I'm taking it seriously. I know many have it for years so it looks like mine was picked up early despite me not taking it seriously 6 months ago

See it as a chance to change it around. Long term. You have my support.

 

[Avocado Sevenfold]

@sheepie123 If it is quick results you are after, have you checked out the Newcastle Diet or the 8 Week Blood Sugar Diet (can be done as low carb as you like)? Lowering your cabs further, intermittent fasting and exercise should all help too. Surgery should be a last resort. All the best.

 

[Enclave]

Link to DBUK page on blood sugar numbers your numbers seem to be within the 'normal' range

 

[Pinkorchid]

My spikes are generally 7.8 around 1hr after dinner then back to around 6.5 2-3 hours later slowly dropping to 5.8

There is nothing wrong with those levels so still do not understand why you want to get down to what could be dangerous levels

 

[Scott-C]

However I would quibble with your comment regarding the difference between carbs consumed and glucose levels as there is a demonstrable positive correlation

Yes, that's true, but the point I was trying to make was that the way it's sometimes put across leads some, including, it would seem, the OP, to the view that carbs are so inherently bad that they end up trying to zero their sugars, as if glucose in blood stream were cyanide or mercury. There is a difference between carbs consumed and sugar in stream in the sense that you could cut out carbs altogether and live a long and happy life, but if you tried to zero glucose in stream, you'd be dead. That's why there's a difference, and the OP seems to have confused the two concepts.

Can I ask a question? Why do more T2s not use insulin? I know very little about T2, but enough to understand why lchf is an attractive option. When I was dx'd I knew little about T1 apart from general (and, as proved to be the case, wrong) impressions that my eating options would be very restricted. That's not the case. I sometimes low carb, but other times high carb, and I can do that as and when I please because of insulin. Yet, in the T2 community, there seems to be a large emphasis on reversing the condition, adopting what seems to me to be very restrictive diets, and in the course of that demonising carbs, even though massive parts of the world's population (for example, Asia) exist quite happily without noticeable consequences on staples like rice and noodles: carbs can't be that bad. My question is why does there seem to be a reluctance amongst T2s to just start using insulin? I chat from time to time with a T2 in my local (we were both using a libre for a while and were comparing notes), and asked him about this. His answer was that he really didn't want to have hypos and was content to radically change his diet to avoid that. Is that the main or only reason, fear of hypos? Or is it also, as some here seem to think, that carbs are inherently evil?

 

[Avocado Sevenfold]

Yes, that's true, but the point I was trying to make was that the way it's sometimes put across leads some, including, it would seem, the OP, to the view that carbs are so inherently bad that they end up trying to zero their sugars, as if glucose in blood stream were cyanide or mercury. There is a difference between carbs consumed and sugar in stream in the sense that you could cut out carbs altogether and live a long and happy life, but if you tried to zero glucose in stream, you'd be dead. That's why there's a difference, and the OP seems to have confused the two concepts.

Can I ask a question? Why do more T2s not use insulin? I know very little about T2, but enough to understand why lchf is an attractive option. When I was dx'd I knew little about T1 apart from general (and, as proved to be the case, wrong) impressions that my eating options would be very restricted. That's not the case. I sometimes low carb, but other times high carb, and I can do that as and when I please because of insulin. Yet, in the T2 community, there seems to be a large emphasis on reversing the condition, adopting what seems to me to be very restrictive diets, and in the course of that demonising carbs, even though massive parts of the world's population (for example, Asia) exist quite happily without noticeable consequences on staples like rice and noodles: carbs can't be that bad. My question is why does there seem to be a reluctance amongst T2s to just start using insulin? I chat from time to time with a T2 in my local (we were both using a libre for a while and were comparing notes), and asked him about this. His answer was that he really didn't want to have hypos and was content to radically change his diet to avoid that. Is that the main or only reason, fear of hypos? Or is it also, as some here seem to think, that carbs are inherently evil?

Hi Scott I can't speak for other T2s, but my problem is with insulin resistance not a shortage of insulin. I have enough insulin of my own on board, but my cells are unable to use it effectively. If I injected more insulin, I would just have a load of unusable insulin sloshing about inside of me and I would get fatter. In the future, if I was unable to make my own insulin, then injectables would be an option. But for now, eating less carbs means I get a smaller insulin response.

 

[Scott-C]

Hi Scott I can't speak for other T2s, but my problem is with insulin resistance not a shortage of insulin. I have enough insulin of my own on board, but my cells are unable to use it effectively. If I injected more insulin, I would just have a load of unusable insulin sloshing about inside of me and I would get fatter. In the future, if I was unable to make my own insulin, then injectables would be an option. But for now, eating less carbs means I get a smaller insulin response.

Cheers, whatever the type, we've all got a lot in common, but I'm going to have to do a lot more reading to figure out the differences!

 

[bulkbiker]

Cheers, whatever the type, we've all got a lot in common, but I'm going to have to do a lot more reading to figure out the differences!

If you want to really find out more try googling Dr Jason Fung and his thoughts on insulin and Type 2. He's a real practising Doc who has led many people (myself included although indirectly) to far better health outcomes by cutting out carbs.
It really isn't as bad as you appear to think I don't find my diet especially restrictive and I eat less than 20g of carbs a day.

 

[kokhongw]

My question is why does there seem to be a reluctance amongst T2s to just start using insulin? I chat from time to time with a T2 in my local (we were both using a libre for a while and were comparing notes), and asked him about this. His answer was that he really didn't want to have hypos and was content to radically change his diet to avoid that. Is that the main or only reason, fear of hypos? Or is it also, as some here seem to think, that carbs are inherently evil?

1. Common misconception about Type 2 diabetes is that it is a condition of elevated glucose. In reality obesity related Type 2 diabetes is often the results of chronically elevated insulin levels.

2. things that we can do to lower and normalize our chronically elevated insulin/glucose level is to significantly reduce carbs load, embrace a carbs lite fats friendly lifestyle and eating only during the day to extend the natural fasting hours and restore our circadian rhythm.

3. Transformational sites leading the way to Type 2 diabetes reversal are:-

• www.dietdoctor.com
• www.diabetes.co.uk
• www.intensivedietarymanagement.com

This has led to thousands of T2D who achieved remission levels previously not possible. Is carbs a necessary evil? For millions, it is what prevents them from restoring their metabolic health.

 

[kokhongw]

Hi Folks,

Does it stand to reason that if I did not eat for long enough my blood sugar level would reach zero? For some reason I have been on around 100 cals per day and my fasting is around 5.6 and about 6.4 - 2 hours post meals. I have even gone as far as eating only two meals per day now and it never seems to push below 5.6. One day I decided to starve myself and again it still did not go much below 5.5 - 5.6. I thought that with a high blood sugar the pancreas makes insulin. Well surely 24 hours of fasting would be enough to put bloods to zero if the pancreas is still working.

Your glucose levels are good. It just means that you need to maintain this for a while longer. It may go just a bit lower to 4.0-5.0 mmol range, but there is no real hurry to reach that level. What you want is sustainability.

Our liver typically has sufficient glycogen store for up to 24 hours. After which the liver is still capable of churning out sufficient glucose to meet our brain's glucose requirements. The rest of body can turn to ketone bodies as alternative fuel. 4.0-5.0 mmol seems to be the tight range that we have been designed for. But this switch to alternative fuel may require 3-5 days to upregulate all the necessary fats utilization enzymes. And during this switch over period, you may experience what is often described as keto flu.

You have also mentioned considering bariatric surgery in your followup posts, Perhaps you will find Dr Jason Fung's post helpful. He is a kidney specialist who specialized in using fasting as treatment protocol for his patients.
https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/medical-bariatrics-t2d-32/

 

[Bluetit1802]

Someone mentioned this earlier. It is my firm belief that each of us has a natural base level and no matter what we do, this base level will always be there. It could be in the 4s. It could be in the 5s. A few people also run in the 3s but these are far and few between. This base level is where our liver wants us to be, and it will always return us to that level if we drop below.

I know my base level is in the 5s. I do see 4s (high 4s) before lunch and before tea, but never on a Fasting BG. I also know I drop to the 4s overnight when I'm asleep, but am always back in the 5s by morning and stay that way until I eat.

Normal base levels are 4 to 5.9. http://www.diabetes.co.uk/diabetes_care/blood-sugar-level-ranges.html
Your levels are normal, and if you have reached these by eating 100g carbs a day your pancreas is working well.

 

[Scott-C]

In reality obesity related Type 2 diabetes is often the results of chronically elevated insulin levels.

Thanks, I see that now. The common "Daily Mail" style misperception is that in some instances obesity causes diabetes, but it's often the other way round: the diabetes can make one more prone to obesity. I recall now reading that with lipohypertrophy individual fat cells become larger.

 

[kokhongw]

Thanks, I see that now. The common "Daily Mail" style misperception is that in some instances obesity causes diabetes, but it's often the other way round: the diabetes can make one more prone to obesity. I recall now reading that with lipohypertrophy individual fat cells become larger.

Yes that is also why if Type1 simply adjust their insulin dosage to meet their carbs/protein levels without any restrictions, over time they would also develop insulin resistance and put on excess weight. The simple fact is that insulin promotes fats storage and suppress fats utilization. We all need to find the right balance.

 

[Alison Campbell]

Yet, I've seen a fair few posts here immediately recommending an lchf diet to newly dx'd T1s, from T2s!

If you see such a post either provide appropriate advice or report it. The mods a very good at dealing with this. I don't think this is the case for this thread though.

Low carbing is a choice. But when you look at the alternatives for someone who has insulin resistance like I have, there are serious downsides to the alternatives.

Scott please see here for type 2 medication options and possible side effects http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/17977284.php

 

[Scott-C]

If you see such a post either provide appropriate advice or report it. The mods a very good at dealing with this. I don't think this is the case for this thread though.

Low carbing is a choice. But when you look at the alternatives for someone who has insulin resistance like I have, there are serious downsides to the alternatives.

Scott please see here for type 2 medication options and possible side effects http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/17977284.php

Thanks. I've realised I hadn't really been thinking about the insulin resistance aspect of it. Puts a different complexion on it. Live and learn, live and learn...