You can lead a horse to water but....

[SunnyExpat]

To be fair, when I read your post #4 I thought to myself, not every HCP in the country feels this way, because some of them are contributing to the problem by giving inappropriate advice like eat plenty of carbs at every meal. Still, I liked your post anyway because I agree that those HCPs who are competent and well informed about diabetes, no doubt feel the same frustration we feel when people ignore advice and continue to eat in a way that harms them.

I think even the 'Eatwell Plate' must be better than 'pie and chips and a big chocolate and ice cream desert'

And if their HCP has told them about the 'Eatwell Plate' they seem to have ignored even that.

No one can help some people.

 

[Celeriac]

I wonder whether getting referred to a counsellor specialising in eating disorders would help some people. I do feel that if there's anorexia, there must surely be an overeating compulsion also. Many people eat because they are stressed. Georgia Davis had gone from 63 to 55 stone and then her stepfather died and she comfort ate and had to be winched out and taken to hospital again. If she had support for all her issues outside of hospital maybe it would really help her.

 

[ButtterflyLady]

I wonder whether getting referred to a counsellor specialising in eating disorders would help some people. I do feel that if there's anorexia, there must surely be an overeating compulsion also. Many people eat because they are stressed. Georgia Davis had gone from 63 to 55 stone and then her stepfather died and she comfort ate and had to be winched out and taken to hospital again. If she had support for all her issues outside of hospital maybe it would really help her.

I totally agree. My BMI was once 46 and I got it down to 27. I believe that once the BMI goes over, say, 35, there are likely to be overeating disorder issues involved. Binge eating disorder is a legitimate disorder. And the most recent version of the psychologists' manual includes a number of overeating type disorders. Counselling can help - but only if the person wants to change.

 

[13lizanne]

I recently came across the following info about Gliclazide and related drugs and I must say it has put me off using them, if it came to that. I don't think I will ever need more than Metformin but if I did, I would rather consider insulin than any of the sulfonylureas. But that's just me. It's a decision for each person to make for themselves, in consultation with their HCP of course.
http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/25311847.php

Thank you for the link it made interesting reading! I am presently on 1 40g Gliclazide tab daily & that's the only diabetic meds I take-and hoping to be off them very soon. I'm certainly not going to take the increased dosage suggested to me yesterday

 

[eddie1968]

Doesn't bother me - it's their health they are neglecting. However I'm not totally sold on the LCHF concept. No long term, large, and double-blind study has been done regarding the safety and efficacy of it (diabetics and non-diabetics). I have cut my carb intake a lot but kept my fat intake stable. I do know which fats are good for you and what carbs have a good glycaemic index. I know this will not be a popular post but this is my personal opinion on the issue and in no way reflects others successes/failures whilst eating LCHF. The jury's out on a lot of dietary options methinks.

 

[ButtterflyLady]

Doesn't bother me - it's their health they are neglecting. However I'm not totally sold on the LCHF concept. No long term, large, and double-blind study has been done regarding the safety and efficacy of it (diabetics and non-diabetics). I have cut my carb intake a lot but kept my fat intake stable. I do know which fats are good for you and what carbs have a good glycaemic index. I know this will not be a popular post but this is my personal opinion on the issue and in no way reflects others successes/failures whilst eating LCHF. The jury's out on a lot of dietary options methinks.

Can you imagine how hard it would be to carry out a long term double blind study involving all the foods a person eats every day? Next to impossible, which is why such studies aren't done, and those that have been attempted have produced less than reliable results. Which fats are good for us is highly debatable. GI only affects the speed of the BG spike, not whether it will happen. While the jury remains out (because of the difficulty in studying people's food intake long term) people need to do something or they will end up seriously ill or dead decades before the average life expectancy. I tested LCHF on myself and found that it works. There is plenty of evidence that relying solely on meds doesn't work and causes injury. I don't see that I have any other option than changing my diet.

 

[eddie1968]

Can you imagine how hard it would be to carry out a long term double blind study involving all the foods a person eats every day? Next to impossible, which is why such studies aren't done, and those that have been attempted have produced less than reliable results. Which fats are good for us is highly debatable. GI only affects the speed of the BG spike, not whether it will happen. While the jury remains out (because of the difficulty in studying people's food intake long term) people need to do something or they will end up seriously ill or dead decades before the average life expectancy. I tested LCHF on myself and found that it works. There is plenty of evidence that relying solely on meds doesn't work and causes injury. I don't see that I have any other option than changing my diet.

Thanks for your reply - but it's my personal opinion and I did not want any debate on it.

 

[ButtterflyLady]

Thanks for your reply - but it's my personal opinion and I did not want any debate on it.

lol that's fine... curious as to why you said it though? I wasn't debating with you, just sharing my personal opinion too

 

[eddie1968]

lol that's fine... curious as to why you said it though? I wasn't debating with you, just sharing my personal opinion too

Well that's ok with me too !

 

[Celeriac]

I blame my diabetes on eating soya mince, (rather than mechanically recovered chicken meat Tesco value burgers) and filling around edges with root veg, rice and pasta, for five years. If I didn't have diabetes, I would be eating organic food as it was something we always aimed for. If husband didn't have NCGS I reckon we'd be low GI organic.

We cut carbs and gluten because our bodies can't process them. I wouldn't restrict them otherwise. Husband and I just never ate fast food and ready meals and we didn't ever bake either.

I think the current baking trend is fuelling diabetes. I collect old cook books and what's interesting, is how much more offal people ate and apart from flour in a sauce and puddings here and there they didn't eat as much carbohydrate. Lots more vegetables were eaten.

 

[SunnyExpat]

The 'Good Old Days' were discussed in this thread recently.

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/ooh-bbc-breakfast-news.82828/

 

[CollieBoy]

I think even the 'Eatwell Plate' must be better than 'pie and chips and a big chocolate and ice cream desert'

And if their HCP has told them about the 'Eatwell Plate' they seem to have ignored even that.

No one can help some people.

And the cr@pfood plate is better, like a clen kill is better than a ligering gut-shot.
A lot of HCPs don't know HOW to help some people! They just try to take the easier option for the HCP!

 

[SunnyExpat]

And the cr@pfood plate is better, like a clen kill is better than a ligering gut-shot..........

Is that the conspiracy theory of HCP's working for 'Big Pharma' again?

 

[CollieBoy]

Is that the conspiracy theory of HCP's working for 'Big Pharma' again?

No the result of my own N=1 experience (and that of several D friends)!
I don't subscribe to conspiracy theory (+ experience of lack of HCP training!)

 

[Pipp]

I totally agree. My BMI was once 46 and I got it down to 27. I believe that once the BMI goes over, say, 35, there are likely to be overeating disorder issues involved. Binge eating disorder is a legitimate disorder. And the most recent version of the psychologists' manual includes a number of overeating type disorders. Counselling can help - but only if the person wants to change.

Please can you provide reference for the psychologists' manual, @CatLadyNZ ?
I would like to read more around eating disorders, and so would be interested in recommendations.
Thank you.

 

[ButtterflyLady]

Please can you provide reference for the psychologists' manual, @CatLadyNZ ?
I would like to read more around eating disorders, and so would be interested in recommendations.
Thank you.

Here is some info about eating disorders:
http://www.b-eat.co.uk/about-eating-disorders/types-of-eating-disorder

From that page:
"The two main classification systems are the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) and International Classification of Diseases (ICD). Both cover eating disorders and are very similar in the criteria they use. The DSM is used more frequently in the USA and the latest version was published in 2013 is DSM-5."

There is also this factsheet about the latest changes to the DSM, giving greater recognition to overeating disorders:
http://www.dsm5.org/Documents/Eating Disorders Fact Sheet.pdf

 

[Pipp]

Here is some info about eating disorders:
http://www.b-eat.co.uk/about-eating-disorders/types-of-eating-disorder

From that page:
"The two main classification systems are the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) and International Classification of Diseases (ICD). Both cover eating disorders and are very similar in the criteria they use. The DSM is used more frequently in the USA and the latest version was published in 2013 is DSM-5."

There is also this factsheet about the latest changes to the DSM, giving greater recognition to overeating disorders:
http://www.dsm5.org/Documents/Eating Disorders Fact Sheet.pdf

Thank you
I will contact you by PM.

 

[teacher123]

@CatLadyNZ - what sort of advice is given to diabetics in New Zealand? Similar to UK?

I came across Dr Troy Stapleton on Youtube who is Type 1 and adheres to LCHF, have you heard of him?

 

[ButtterflyLady]

@CatLadyNZ - what sort of advice is given to diabetics in New Zealand? Similar to UK?

I came across Dr Troy Stapleton on Youtube who is Type 1 and adheres to LCHF, have you heard of him?

I think the advice is similar here, although I think our doctors and nurses are more aware of low carbing, and they are not so stingy with test strips. I haven't heard of Troy Stapleton.

 

[teacher123]

I think the advice is similar here, although I think our doctors and nurses are more aware of low carbing, and they are not so stingy with test strips. I haven't heard of Troy Stapleton.

I came across him through Low Carb Down Under and Low Carb New Zealand on youtube.