Surprising New Role of Fat in Diabetes

[Cocosilk]

Opinions please?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.medicalnewstoday.com/amp/articles/323347

 

[JohnEGreen]

I think there is a good chance that they will soon conquer this dreadful epidemic of diabetes in mice.

 

[NicoleC1971]

1 It is a rat study
2 Said rats were fed an obesogenic diet (this was called High Fat but I understand that to mean high fat and high carb aka junk chow) to provide likely conditions for glucose intolerance.
3 The rats whose adipose fat was treated with the knock out PKS09 inbibitor, remained fat but glucose tolerant whereas the rats whose liver fat was treated with the same became glucose intolerant.
4 This suggests a basis for a human drug that might reduce insulin signalling problems in humans predisposed for type 2 (most of us).
5 Anything that inhibits the development of diabetes is a good thing for iindividuals and society and also a source of huge profits for a drug company. If we can easily prevent type 2 via diet specifically low carb wouldn't most people prefer to do that?
The underlying hypothesis here is that the act of getting fat triggers metabolic damage such as insulin resistance but many researchers believe that becoming insulin insensitive triggers the acquisition of fat as well as other metabolic changes. These findings also contradict the human studies such as Direct where 800 kcal dieters were shown to lose their insulin resistance when they stripped away liver and pancreatic fat. Ditto the anecdotal evidence from bariatric patients who have to lose liver fat before they can be operated on and before they lose their fat, and lose their diabetes shortly afterwards.

 

[NicoleC1971]

I think there is a good chance that they will soon conquer this dreadful epidemic of diabetes in mice.

I think the lab rats have a great time living fast on rat chow yet knowing they are doing so for a noble cause. I feel a Disney movie coming on.

 

[bulkbiker]

Opinions please?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.medicalnewstoday.com/amp/articles/323347

From his linked-in profile

"He has worked on projects with several pharma and biotech companies"

unbiased?

 

[JohnEGreen]

1 It is a rat study

I'm sorry I concentrated on the article linked to
Which contained the following quote so I thought maybe mice were somehow involved my appologies if I was wrong to assume that.

“And in [high-fat diet]-fed mice with PKCε intact — which are glucose intolerant — we saw more of the unhealthy, engorged fat cells, that tend to have less access to oxygen and become inflamed.”

Edit to add oh and the following

Schmitz-Peiffer and colleagues fed mice a high-fat diet, thus inducing symptoms of type 2 diabetes, such as glucose intolerance and insulin resistance, in the animals. Insulin resistance occurs when the liver no longer reacts to insulin, the hormone secreted by the pancreas.
Then, the researchers knocked out the gene responsible for PKCɛ in the liver, or the gene responsible for PKCɛ in the entire adipose tissue of the mice, and compared the results.

Schmitz-Peiffer reports on the findings, saying: “The big surprise was that when we removed PKCε production specifically in the liver — the mice were not protected.”

 

[TriciaWs]

That rat/mice chow is disgusting stuff, full of both high processed fat and high glucose/carbs. No wonder it causes the poor rodents to get sick.
Other studies have been criticised for using the chow, or similar mixes, but they carry on.

 

[NicoleC1971]

I'm sorry I concentrated on the article linked to
Which contained the following quote so I thought maybe mice were somehow involved my appologies if I was wrong to assume that.

“And in [high-fat diet]-fed mice with PKCε intact — which are glucose intolerant — we saw more of the unhealthy, engorged fat cells, that tend to have less access to oxygen and become inflamed.”

Edit to add oh and the following

Schmitz-Peiffer and colleagues fed mice a high-fat diet, thus inducing symptoms of type 2 diabetes, such as glucose intolerance and insulin resistance, in the animals. Insulin resistance occurs when the liver no longer reacts to insulin, the hormone secreted by the pancreas.
Then, the researchers knocked out the gene responsible for PKCɛ in the liver, or the gene responsible for PKCɛ in the entire adipose tissue of the mice, and compared the results.

Schmitz-Peiffer reports on the findings, saying: “The big surprise was that when we removed PKCε production specifically in the liver — the mice were not protected.”

Yes and you are right they were mice and I am sorry for any offence caused to rats or mice.

 

[JohnEGreen]

As I am neither I took no offence.

 

[Member496333]

To avoid endlessly searching for ever more complex solutions to what evolution apparently got wrong, we could, alternatively, just stop shovelling gargantuan quantities of glucose and fructose down our necks.

 

[NicoleC1971]

To avoid endlessly searching for ever more complex solutions to what evolution apparently got wrong, we could, alternatively, just stop shovelling gargantuan quantities of glucose and fructose down our necks.

But that won't make any money duhh! keep feeding the humans junk chow then create drugs to deal with symptoms but don't cure the disease.

 

[ianf0ster]

That rat/mice chow is disgusting stuff, full of both high processed fat and high glucose/carbs. No wonder it causes the poor rodents to get sick.
Other studies have been criticised for using the chow, or similar mixes, but they carry on.

Interestingly, the macro composition and use of seed oils makes the specially formulated obesogenic rat chow almost identical to the Standard American Diet, at least several researcher claim.

 

[Krystyna23040]

That rat/mice chow is disgusting stuff, full of both high processed fat and high glucose/carbs. No wonder it causes the poor rodents to get sick.
Other studies have been criticised for using the chow, or similar mixes, but they carry on.

So basically the rat/mice chow was very similar to highly processed human food.

 

[Krystyna23040]

Interestingly, the macro composition and use of seed oils makes the specially formulated obesogenic rat chow almost identical to the Standard American Diet, at least several researcher claim.

Just noticed your post. You have said what I had tried to say - but in a much clearer way.

 

[Cocosilk]

Thanks all! I figured this study was probably done to sell another drug to us. I hadn't considered the high fat diet they used would also be high carb / seed oil based. I thought the scientists would have known what clean keto was and were feeding the rodents that.. :***:

So is it true that insulin resistance (from a high carb AND high fat diet) usually comes first and the weight problem follows, rather than the other way round? Or does it just depend on the individual I suppose?
I'm still wondering how a sumo wrestler can be healthy but a TOFI ends up with fat only around the organs. Is the difference in their genes, diet or activity levels? Or is that a mystery?

 

[Member496333]

I thought the scientists would have known what clean keto was...

They most assuredly do, which will be why they didn't use it.

 

[lucylocket61]

Thanks all! I figured this study was probably done to sell another drug to us. I hadn't considered the high fat diet they used would also be high carb / seed oil based. I thought the scientists would have known what clean keto was and were feeding the rodents that.. :***:

So is it true that insulin resistance (from a high carb AND high fat diet) usually comes first and the weight problem follows, rather than the other way round? Or does it just depend on the individual I suppose?
I'm still wondering how a sumo wrestler can be healthy but a TOFI ends up with fat only around the organs. Is the difference in their genes, diet or activity levels? Or is that a mystery?

This is interesting: https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2015/01/23/thinking-about-obesity-and-diabetes/

 

[bulkbiker]

I'm still wondering how a sumo wrestler can be healthy

Because most are quite young and many don't survive into a ripe old age..

 

[Cocosilk]

Because most are quite young and many don't survive into a ripe old age..

View attachment 39208

Oh so they are not healthy after all. Good to know!

 

[Indy51]

If I had to pick the very worst misrepresentation in nutrition research, it's probably labelling their mouse/rat chow diets as "high fat" when it's really "high sugar/high fat". It's an absolute disgrace.