For any who still think LCHF is a fad ...

[donnellysdogs]

Perhaps Cantani's locking up to keep people eating the diet could be reused today!!!-lol)

Great info.. Thankyou...as always, very interesting...

 

[Brunneria]

Thanks @phoenix !

One of my books (Dubois, Taming the tiger: your first year of diabetes) starts off by saying how lucky we are to be diabetic NOW, with the knowledge and treatment available.

And how right he is.

And we are also tremendously lucky that the majority of people in the uk get some (or more) choice in their diet. What a luxury to be able to choose what to eat.

(The book is a great, superficial little primer, but I wouldn't recommend trotting out and buying it unless you are very newly diagnosed and still in shock)

 

[alliebee]

Maybe rationing during the war taught us more than we thought. Esp the rationing of sugar

 

[douglas99]

Maybe rationing during the war taught us more than we thought. Esp the rationing of sugar

Think it taught you couldn't be fussy.
If it was bread and spuds, it was bread and spuds,
Not a good time for avoiding carbs.

 

[AndBreathe]

I don't necessarily challenge much of what is written here, but the thing that gets me is when I see folks tuck into lasagne and chips, or pizza and chips, and so on. I never have got the carb accompaniment to carb.

 

[phoenix]

Thanks @phoenix !

One of my books (Dubois, Taming the tiger: your first year of diabetes) starts off by saying how lucky we are to be diabetic NOW, with the knowledge and treatment available.

And how right he is.

And we are also tremendously lucky that the majority of people in the uk get some (or more) choice in their diet. What a luxury to be able to choose what to eat.

(The book is a great, superficial little primer, but I wouldn't recommend trotting out and buying it unless you are very newly diagnosed and still in shock)

That book is available free online
http://www.diabetes-without-borders.org/FreeTiger.pdf

I've just been skimming through the Lawrence book. http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=coo.31924003510017;view=1up;seq=162

It's interesting to see where things haven't changed much (many including debates on diet) He discusses some of the pros and cons and seems to came down on what I would call the moderate carbohydrate 'side'. There are a lot of details of his diet plan in the book . What s clear though is that the total calorie intake was lower than the norm for the time for all his patients.
He was a great advocate of explaining things to people with diabetes . He is supposed to have said
'the person with diabetes must be his own doctor, nurse and lab technician.'
At the start of the book the technical detail about diabetes and carbs/protein/fat is far greater than most books intended to be read by patients today (some things aren't quite as we would understand them today but quite a lot is still valid)
I was really surprised to read that he was even back then getting successful outcomes in pregnancies in women with diabetes. He was advising a Caesarean at 37 weeks so this practice goes back a long time

 

[catherinecherub]

I thought this article was interesting showing that Asian Americans do better on their traditional high carbohydrate diet when it comes to managing their diabetes.
Traditional Asian diet lowered insulin resistance in Asian Americans
Last updated: 22 September 2014 at 12am PST

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/282735.php
Why are Asian Americans at higher risk of developing type 2 diabetes than Caucasian Americans, and prone to develop the disease at lower body weights? One part of this puzzle may lie in the transition from traditional high-fiber, low-fat Asian diets to current westernized diets, which may pose extra risks for those of Asian heritage, says George King, M.D., Senior Vice President and Chief Scientific Officer at Joslin Diabetes Center and the senior author of the study.

A Joslin randomized clinical trial now has demonstrated that both Asian Americans and Caucasian Americans at risk of type 2 diabetes who adopted a rigorously controlled traditional Asian diet lowered their insulin resistance. (A leading risk factor for developing the disease, insulin resistance is a condition in which the body struggles to use the hormone insulin, which helps to metabolize sugar.)
For the first eight weeks, all the participants ate a traditional high-fiber East Asian diet with 70% of calories from carbohydrates, 15% from protein and 15% from fat, and providing 15 g fiber/1,000 kcal. The food was prepared fresh by local chefs and delivered every two days. "Three meals and one snack were included each day, and we made sure that they were nutritious as well as very tasty," says Ka Hei Karen Lau, a Joslin dietitian and certified diabetes educator.

 

[phoenix]

The full paper is here http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0106851
I suspect the same might happen with the use of any traditional diets. I know they have had good results in the Marshall Islands
using a diet that was much closer to their traditional diet It was initially vegan high fibre diet, no refined grains but contained real whole grains and beans,fruit, veg yam . After the initial phase they introduced fish. . This is one of the places with the highest percentage of people with diabetes in the world. It is a country that abruptly changed from a traditional diet to one consisting of mostly processed foods brought in from the US with dire consequences https://www.navs-online.org/nutrition/healthissues/defeatingdiabetes.php

 

[Brunneria]

The fibre content is a massive component, isn't it?

Medieval England - only the very richest had ever even seen white bread.
And 'normal' peasant bread was the whole grain, milled, the outer shell would be collected, and the miller would add as much back into the flour as possible, to increase the weight and bulk (increasing his profit and share of the grain).

Then things like barley, ground up peas, beans and rye flour were added into the dough (cheaper) by whoever baked the bread. Peasant Egyptians lived on barley flour.

The result was as far from our Artisan breads as we can imagine. Much more coarse ground husk, straw and chaff.

Medieval teeth were often worn down from fibre, grit and other roughage, while ours decay due to sugars.

Sorry, no references. And it is all based on 20yr ago reading from college, so there may be more recent contradictory evidence!

 

[douglas99]

......................Medieval teeth were often worn down from fibre, grit and other roughage, while ours decay due to sugars..............

To be fair though, if both the mother and child didn't die in childbirth, about 1/3 of the children died under 5.
If they survived that period, most adults died in their mid 40's, if they weren't violently killed before, in war or accident.

I'd take a few fillings on balance.

 

[sanguine]

Ok this thread seems to have moved into completely different realms.

You're right there Phoenix. Started with a simple message about managing T2 with minimal drugs, and in a short time it's gone off at several tangents. Odd.

 

[noblehead]

You're right there Phoenix. Started with a simple message about managing T2 with minimal drugs, and in a short time it's gone off at several tangents. Odd.

That's the nature of forums Sanguine.

The title of the thread is puzzling mind, why do you think that those that don't follow a LCHF diet see it as fad?

 

[sanguine]

That's the nature of forums Sanguine.

The title of the thread is puzzling mind, why do you think that those that don't follow a LCHF diet see it as fad?

The title says 'for any', not 'for those', and could include people who have yet to decide.

 

[douglas99]

You're right there Phoenix. Started with a simple message about managing T2 with minimal drugs, and in a short time it's gone off at several tangents. Odd.

No real message there though.
It's an option, which was used a 100 years ago, at the start of the 20th century, and is used by some today still.
Others have moved onto different treatments, I use a treatment from the 21st century.
I'm happy with it, it suits my lifestyle today, better than a treatment that started in the victorian era.

If it works for those that do it, it's a good choice for them.
As you say though, it's only one of many, for those that are deciding for themselves.

 

[sanguine]

Nothing to do with Victorian vs 21st century Douglas, it's a contemporary choice between drugs and no (or minimal) drugs.

 

[douglas99]

Thought your whole point of starting the thread was

'I was alerted to this publication recently, published in 1917, pre-insulin and when diet control was all that there was;

Isn't that the point any more then?

 

[Brunneria]

You're right there Phoenix. Started with a simple message about managing T2 with minimal drugs, and in a short time it's gone off at several tangents. Odd.

Good thing it did.
Some people react to threads with similar titles like a spark in a firework factory.

 

[sanguine]

Thought your whole point of starting the thread was

'I was alerted to this publication recently, published in 1917, pre-insulin and when diet control was all that there was;

Isn't that the point any more then?

You missed out the most important bit of my OP which was "Still as relevant today as it was nearly a century ago" I didn't post it just as some historical oddity.

 

[noblehead]

The title says 'for any', not 'for those', and could include people who have yet to decide.

I wouldn't get too uptight about what people may think, diet will always be an emotive subject (especially on diabetes forums) and most people will make their own minds up on what diet suits them best.

 

[sanguine]

I wouldn't get too uptight about what people may think, diet will always be an emotive subject (especially on diabetes forums) and most people will make their own minds up on what diet suits them best.

Not me who's uptight.