Low carb dieting not working

[philg]

Hi Steve

I too was confused by your figures for avocado. According to "Collins gem Carb Counter" the net carbs of half an avocado is 4.6.

I use the collins book all the time for manual calculations and for my carb counting computer programme and find it to be very good.

I bought the book as I found a lot of recommendations for it on this and other diabetic forums. It is available from W.H.Smiths, Amazon.co.uk and no doubt lots of other places. It is priced at £3.59 on Amazon.

Keep at it and keep getting help from these lovely people on here. You will get there eventually but it does not happen overnight.

By the way you did not mention what medication you are using, if any?

All the best

Phil

 

[srm100841]

Hi all,

I'm taking gliclazide in 80mg tablets Phil. Two before breakfast and two before supper. I've been on this regime for over a year. Previously I took 3 tablets a day, before that 2 and originally just one.

The menus you supplied Spiral will be of help. I can't manage a meal without meat or fish but I can replace the 'bad' vegetables with what you've suggested. The link to the carb counter I'm using is http://www.carbohydrate-counter.org/fruit/search.php?cat=Avocados&fg=0900

This counter also gives high carb figures for the leafy vegetables as you can see if you search. I tried to order Collins Little Gem but unfortunately Amazon are out of stock. My local Smiths has closed its book sales section. I notice that Amazon do sell another Collins Calorie Counter and wondered if this was a good substitute. Does anyone know please? In any event I'll pay a visit to Cardiff next week and look for the Collins book in Waterstones.

Meanwhile I've had my first load of leafy vegetables with some chicken and lentils for dinner. No beer (hear the crying?) but did have a couple of brandy and soda's plus a glass of white wine. According to the carb counter the drinks contained no carbs.

Steve

 

[Spiral]

Steve, if I were you, I'd also be browsing the low carb cookbooks on my next trip to the bookshop. you need ideas! Pictures are good and make sure that you can get decent breakfast, lunch and dinner and ideas for some snacks.

I have bought a fair few low carb veggie cookbooks over the last few months, and believe me all low carb cookbooks are not created equal :shock: :shock: :shock: i think ther eis some confusion between low carb and low GI for some writers and I am amazed at the poor standards of what some writers count as low carb. You need to be able to get a decent meal with under 10 carbs a time at this stage. Take a good look at the carb counts before you decide to buy.

There are also low GI cookbooks, but at this stage you need to be avoiding anything with starchy carbs. If you get things under control you may be able to increase your carbs again at a later date.

I'd also suggest you try red rather than white, but I don't think the brandy and soda will do any harm at all. The alcohol keeps your liver occupied and you may see lower numbers as a result! But don't overdo it, remember the limits for safe drinking.

 

[cugila]

My local Smiths has closed its book sales section. I notice that Amazon do sell another Collins Calorie Counter and wondered if this was a good substitute. Does anyone know please? In any event I'll pay a visit to Cardiff next week and look for the Collins book in Waterstones.

Hi Steve.

I have several carb/calorie counter books as none of them are 100% accurate. Here is a list of what I use and can recommend.
Collins Calorie Counter (larger print/format than Little Gem books)
Collins Gem Calorie Counter
Collins Gem GI Book
Collins Gem GL Book
Pocket Calorie Counter by Carolyn Humphries.
The Calorie, Carb and Fat Bible 2009. The one I use the most. Too big for the pocket though.

ALL have carb information even if the name doesn't show that.

 

[AliB]

Steve, Hi.

If your body has been used to those higher levels for some time, it may take a while to readjust. It will have been used to functioning like that and may resist the drop initially.

I know that when I first dropped gluten and my BG levels fell (I was up in double figures all the time too) I kept getting hypos, even though my sugar levels were above what would be considered normal. As my body readjusted that eventually rebalanced and although I don't get hypos any more due to the low-carb diet, the last time I started with the shakes my BS was about 3.4 which would be pretty normal.

As your cells have been used to that high level of carb-burning for energy then your liver might still be converting it's glucose needs from protein. I suspect that the 'dawn phenomenon' occurs because the liver - in carb-burning mode - senses that the glucose levels are too low for the body's energy needs and has a flurry of glycogen production. Just like the pancreas has been doing in shoving out more insulin than the body needs in its 'panic' to get the sugar level down from that scrummy danish pastry or chocolate bar you have just eaten, the liver may well be reacting similarly to the need for glucose by shoving out more than is needed.

Whatever the cause, it is driven by carbs, and the quantity and density of the carbs we have. When you drop the carb level for long enough the body is forced to revert to fat for its (more efficient) energy source and glucose is not then needed in enough quantity to warrant much, if any overnight production.

You may find that you need to up your fats a bit and keep the carbs as low as you can, say 30 - 40 gms a day for a while to force your body to start fat-burning for energy.

Three days is not very long to see too much of a result. Some may respond quicker than others but that doesn't mean that it won't kick in at some point.

I have to keep my carbs very low at about 30gms to get the best results, but I do take higher fats and that helps to keep me fuller for longer. My am and pm readings usually sit somewhere between 4.7 and 6 and I don't get the 'dawn phenomenon' any more either.

 

[srm100841]

Hi AliB,

What you've said is reassuring. This is my 5th day of carb counting. I've reduced the count and will continue to do so to see what happens.

One bit of good news for me was that this morning's BG reading of 8.5 is the lowest breakfat level since May 2007. I know that the level is still too high but the reading gives me hope that I can drag it down.

Steve

 

[Spiral]

this morning's BG reading of 8.5 is the lowest breakfat level since May 2007

:mrgreen: 8) :mrgreen: 8) :mrgreen:

Well done! Great news. Now keep a watch on the rest of your numbers.

More frequent tests at this stage will help identify when you peak after a meal and this may be a bit more cost effective later on if you are having to fund your own tests strips.

It gets easier and loads of niggly little things will start to clear up as your levels drop over the next few weeks

 

[srm100841]

Hi Spiral,

I'm more pleased than earlier since my pre-dinner reading was 5.2. This is my lowest level since 2003.

I'm away now for 4 days so it will be a bit more difficult for me to keep on top of things. However I will stick to the low carb approach.

Many thanks to you and all the others who pointed me in this direction. I just hope I haven't just hit a couple of eccentrically good readings. I'll see.

Steve

 

[Spiral]

Steve, this isn't just a fluke. You will see :mrgreen:

I got myself in to a right old state before going away when low carb was new. Do the best you can and avoid as much starchy carb as you can. Carry on with the food diary and if you do consume starchy carb, test and see what it does to your readings. Make yourself your own science experiment :mrgreen:

I'm very grateful to the people who spent time answering my psts when it was all so new (not that long ago, I've only been low carbing since May). You will pick it up quickly!

 

[Jo123]

Hi Steve,
One thing I find helps me to get good readings is to not snack between meals. I make sure I am properly full up after each meal, and I have got my fasting bg's back to normal by not eating after about 8.00pm (unless I am out!). Can I stress I am not eating less in quantity just not spread out throughout the day.
Jo

 

[Spiral]

Hi Steve,
One thing I find helps me to get good readings is to not snack between meals. I make sure I am properly full up after each meal, and I have got my fasting bg's back to normal by not eating after about 8.00pm (unless I am out!). Can I stress I am not eating less in quantity just not spread out throughout the day.
Jo

I need to snack to keep my blood sugar stable and avoid liver dumps (the liver thinking you are starving to death and creating glucose from its stores and putting it in your bloodstream).

I can get from breakfast to lunch without a snack, but I need to snack between lunch and my evening meal because I eat quite late. I often have a snack before bedtime to try and reduce my high morning numbers due to a combination of dawn phenomenon and liver dumps.

However, we are all different and I think it is a matter of finding out what works for you as an individual. Since I started the full dose of metformin a week ago I'm really not getting hungry during the day and I'm a bit worried this will affect my numbers because I have had liver dumps after short fasting periods. There have been times when I have hit 7+ on an empty stomach in the morning after a number below 6 the night before :shock: :?

 

[srm100841]

My morning reading today was 6.4, the lowest level since 2003. Yesterday my pre-dinner reading was also the lowest for 6 years at 5.2. I'm really grateful to you guys for all the advice and support. I had just about given up hope of ever getting consecutive readings in the 4 - 7 range.

I now want to maintain and possibly better these sorts of levels but still have work to do on my lunchtime readings. I now have bacon and egg type breakfasts and sometimes a snack of cheese mid morning. Although my readings are lower now that I'm reducing my carbs, they stubbornly remain above 10. Maybe I can ditch the mid morning snack or perhaps I'm testing a bit soon after exercise. I'll experiment and hopefully get there in the end. My aim is to reduce the levels consistently and then to also reduce my medication.

I note what you say about the benefits/disbenefits of snacking. For myself I often feel 'off colour' if I go any length of time without food. My guess is that I need to snack but I'll try different regimes until I get a good handle on things. At least I now feel able to experiment.

Thanks all. I'm off in an hour or so on a short break but am devising a plan to keep up with the low carb approach.

Steve

 

[NickW]

Hi Steve,

Great news on the improved numbers! I hope you're giving yourself enough credit for the changes you've made, it really does sound like excellent progress.

One thing I'd say regarding the lunch-time numbers is to give it time. You've only been low-carbing a short while and already seen some great benefits, but things will probably keep improving for quite a while yet as your body gradually becomes more insulin sensitive. So please don't despair with the elevated lunch numbers. By all means experiment with snacks of different foods and at different times and see what they do to your readings, but also try to avoid worrying too much just yet!

Also, regarding the comment "perhaps I'm testing a bit soon after exercise" - I actually think it's useful to test at different times so that you get a clearer picture of what's going on throughout the day. You want to spot the high numbers so you can try to take action to reduce them - not seeing the highs means you're unaware and can't do anything about them. I know it's unpleasant tos ee the high numbers on your meter, but you're better off being informed than ignorant of them.

Congrats again on the improvements and good luck for your continued success - looking forward to hearing how you get on!

Cheers,
Nick.

 

[wallycorker]

Hi,

You are certainly on the right track and - in my opinion - you should see a quick improvement. However, don't expect that everything will simply improve overnight because life generally ain't like that. Stick with what you are doing - you'll get there and it'll be worth it just to try to keep clear of the quite horrible complications that can come a diabetics way!

Best wishes - John

 

[AliB]

Hi Steve.

Going back to the carb-burning, fat-burning thing, you probably will find that you need to snack until your body has adjusted to fat-burning. Once it does that it won't need to 'top-up' the glucose levels any more because it will be getting its energy from fat, not carbs. As long as you make your snacks non or very low carb then your body will adjust ok.

I find, if I am in proper fat-burning mode, I don't have the need to snack. Although I wouldn't recommend it for everyone, personally I don't eat very much after dinner in the evening and I usually don't eat until about midday in the morning. I eat when I am hungry. Sometimes that kicks in earlier, but often I go through till 12 or even 1 before I eat, then I will have a couple of scrambled eggs or a couple of rice cakes and some home-made pate or fish or something.

When I was carb-burning I always had to snack, and the evenings in front of the TV were the worst times.

So good that you have been able to see the benefits of LC in your numbers. That is very encouraging.

 

[Spiral]

Excellent result! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: I told you it wasn't a fluke!

Regarding the testing, Nick is right, you need to test at different times to find out when you peak. A bit scary when you see the numbes on the meter :shock: :? but you really need to know this. I time my after meal tests to get my biggest spikes yet my current 7 day average is 5.7, when you see those numbers falling it feels great :mrgreen:

It takes a while to get the numbers down consistently as you are also re-educating your body to get its energy from a different source. Really well done, Steve. Keep it up :mrgreen:

 

[srm100841]

Hello again,

I'm back from my break.

I found it a little difficult to keep to the low carb diet while away for I was eating out much of the time. Nevertheless I did keep stick to it.

My levels have continued to improve and today all 3 pre meal readings were within more or less an acceptable range. In fact my morning reading was a bit low at 3.7. It was certainly the lowest since I was diagnosed. By lunch I got it up to 4.8 and tonight before dinner it had risen to 6.2.

Because I was concerned that the breakfast level was a bit too low, I reduced my medication from 2 gliclazide to 1.

I wondered if anyone had a user's manual for the Menardi Glucomen meter? I've lost mine and have forgotten how to calibrate the meter.

Many thanks for all the help and words of encouragement. Long live 'low carb'.

Steve

 

[cugila]

I wondered if anyone had a user's manual for the Menardi Glucomen meter? I've lost mine and have forgotten how to calibrate the meter

Hi srm./Steve.

Had a search for Menardi, only came up with Companies not related to meters ?
Searched Glucomen and it came up with the One Touch site. Is it foreign ? Do you have any other info to help in a search ?
The two together come up with nothing ?

 

[wallycorker]

.......My levels have continued to improve and today all 3 pre meal readings were within more or less an acceptable range. In fact my morning reading was a bit low at 3.7. It was certainly the lowest since I was diagnosed. By lunch I got it up to 4.8 and tonight before dinner it had risen to 6.2.......

Great news Steve,

Personally, I'd be very pleased to start seeing 'on rising' fasting levels of 3.7 - I don't ever remember having had such a reading below 4 despite often having results in the 4s. However, I do often have pre-evening meal readings just below 4 and sometimes pre-lunch too.

Not that it's anything to be worried about but could you see any reason for the 6.2 before dinner? Afternoon snack?

John

 

[cugila]

Hi Steve.

By lunch I got it up to 4.8 and tonight before dinner it had risen to 6.2.........

Could possibly be something you had for your Lunch....after you have eaten it usually rises somewhat. Anything after as John says, like a snack will all add to the later pre-meal reading.

Good numbers though.