Job discrimination because of diabetes

[kewgirl]

Hi djs1990

If you are interested in pursuing a pilot's career you could always consider emigrating to Canada!

Many advances in the self- management of diabetes means that jobs that certainly when I was diagnosed in 1970 were prohibited to me are now considered "doable" by insulin dependent diabetics.

Canada is still the only country that allows Type 1 Insulin Dependent Diabetics (IDD) to fly commercially.

The first Type 1 IDD commercial airline pilot was Stephen Steele. Links to his story are below.

I will leave it up to readers themselves to consider / debate/discuss the inspiration or folly of the airlines decision.

http://www.peoplewithdiabetes.ca/inspir ... steele.php

http://www.thestar.com/SpecialSections/ ... cle/272050

best wishes

Txx

 

[Road Runner]

So it fine to be a cocaine addict or alcoholic and drive HGVs while a diabetic who controls his sugars cant :roll:

I believe if your doctor feel OK about you yearly or anything crops up is best.

A diabetic HGV driver having a incident will be big new while the other thousand are not.

Then there are the illegal driver and joy rider (ha ha what a name for a young criminal) generally escape most conviction as to much trouble.

Sorry this is my first post but this thread caught my eye.

John (Road Runner)

 

[Fujifilm]

The story of Stephen Steele is very interesting and I think the point he makes is this "With proper care and excellent control, there isn't anything a person with diabetes can't do".

It is obvious Mr Steele is a very intelligent disciplined man and I suppose there always need to be an exception to the rule.

If we say all insulin dependant diabetics can fly planes, drive hgvs etc. we carry the risk of those that are not disciplined and do not control the diabetes well being able to do these things.

So I guess the answer is, if you can prove over a period of time that you have good control and are a responsible diabetic you should be no more of a risk than anyone else and therefore be able to do these things.

NO WAY should it be an automatic right that you can do these things.

I don't know about anyone else but it took me months if not nearly a year to get my diabetes controlled right, I would hate to think an HGV driver who just got diagnosed as diabetic carried on driving and had his first hypo experience behind the wheel of a 40 foot artic.

To be honest I am not even sure as a newly diganosed type 1 diabetic you should be able to drive a car for the first month of starting on insulin. Until you can show you have an understanding of BG and control. I would not have been happy if I had been told that. But knowing what I know now would understand.

 

[nannybarbara]

I'm a T2D put on insulin in June this year, and I couldn't bring myself to drive for weeks I was so worried about hypos.
Barb

 

[silvermonkey10]

So I guess the answer is, if you can prove over a period of time that you have good control and are a responsible diabetic you should be no more of a risk than anyone else and therefore be able to do these things.

Here, here! Well said....

 

[dipsticky]

I don't know about having Diabetic lorry drivers on Insulin at the wheel. Would you want an ex-bus driver Diabetic on Insulin AND a cop in charge ?
Personally I wouldn't trust him/her at the wheel of a shopping trolley with views like that. :wink:

D.

 

[silvermonkey10]

Dipsticky,

Explain your post....its a bit confusing.

 

[dipsticky]

Confusing. Yes, I suppose it must be.

D.

 

[Osidge]

Silvermonkey

Just a minor correction. As well as tablet controlled Diabetes T2 I also have very early Parkinson's Disease. On diagnosis of the PD a year ago, at 55, I was immediately put on a 3 year driving license and lost my right to even drive a minibus!!! Everything was removed apart from cars. I have no problem with that. While I am less risk than someone about to have a heart attack, I know about the PD and would prefer to err on the side of caution.

Also job-related, just about to retire early from the country's biggest police authority to concentrate on keeping healthy.

Doug

 

[silvermonkey10]

Two of my ex-bus colleagues were diagnosed with Parkinson's. One retired, but after a year, the other had their PCV licence reinstated and was allowed to continue driving buses. Presumably doctors had assessed him and concluded him fit to return to work.

I think the point I'm trying to make, and which somehow seems to have been lost, is that people on insulin shouldn't be automatically banned from doing things. We might all share the same 'disease' but we don't all react the same. There are people on here who have had no problems despite having diabetes for most of their life. There are others who've had complications after 5 years.

All I'm saying is that when I was diagnosed, I'd have liked the opportunity to retain my PCV licence. Certainly I think it should be revoked whilst coming to terms with insulin and establishing a good control regime. And indeed, it would be important to prove that before licence reinstation. Then after that, why not be reassessed every year? I'd have met the costs.

In five years I've had no hypos, no hospital admissions, no problems. Manage to keep bloods around the 5 mark. That's just me. Maybe I'm lucky in the way my body/I have reacted to Type 1 diabetes. Sadly its not the same for everyone. Maybe things will go downhill for me in a few months, next year, I don't know. But if they did, I would have been responsible enough to hold my hands up (in the early stages of any complications) and say, 'Yes, I agree, I can no longer drive buses, cars or whatever'.

There is no reason why on earth people with diabetes cannot be assessed individually so as to prove their fitness to drive LGVs/HGVs/PCVs, to fly planes, and so on. If there's people who disagree with that then they must surely think that all people on insulin should be banned from driving cars, bikes, even riding horses on the road, and so on. One person on their own in a car, having a hypo say, could just as easily cause multiple deaths as could a bus driver in service.

If you think people on insulin should stay away from large vehicles, then surely you must take the view that they should stay away from cars and motorbikes. You cannot argue that more damage would be done by those in larger vehicles. Multiple motorway pile ups have been due to single cars. Cyclists/horse riders have been the cause of horrific road fatalities.

I'm asking that we be treated as individuals but at the same time be responsible enough to know when we are 'beaten'.

 

[dipsticky]

silvermonkey.
Oh, if everything in life was like you describe. You may be responsible, but for every one that is there are many more that aren't. What a rosey hued world you portray. Full of responsible caring adults. Full of caring, compassionate human beings ? Oh, sorry. I think I was daydreaming. As an individual and a member of the community I want to protect my loved ones, see the kids grow up in safety. So I believe that we need to be protected from ourselves sometimes. That's why they make laws.
I see you are a cop. Isnt it your job to protect and serve the community ? Is that just when it suits you ? Only when it suits your own ends.
Now, if you hadn't made such a fuss about your experience as a cop etc I wouldn't have mentioned it, but you had the temerity to dismiss a much more experienced ex-cop's opinion out of hand. Just because he disagreed with you. As for banning all insulin users, nobody has said that. I think after your earlier interventions you have just put a spin on things, you yourself are making generalisations here, sweeping statements. Not at all the way to win people over to your point of view. Seems more like, "If I want your opinion, I will give it to you ?" (pinched from another post somewhere)
I don't want anybody controlling an HGV/PSV/PLane/Train etc who is an insulin user. I agree with the law. I am not bothered how well controlled they are, I have seen people who are just that, suddenly get a hypo, or fall asleep after a meal because their blood sugars went sky high. There is always a risk and I am not prepared to take it.
Bit like all the diabetics who are on their best behaviour a week or two before a Hba test, then get back to normal after it. Best behaviour then the old routine.
As some people said earlier, public safety always comes first. Isn't that what the other ex-cop said as well ? So if you don't like my opinion, well, that's tough. It's what I believe. I also believe that is a majority view, isn't that what drives things, a majority. S o, push your petition, promote all you want. Just don't get upset when it doesn't go your way. Name calling and petty sniping ill becomes an officer of the law. Sort of thing we get down the pub, when 'the lads' are talking.
We, Joe public, expect better.

 

[valattrevear]

dipsticky, a wellthought out, and in my opinion, excellent post
Val

 

[silvermonkey10]

Now who is taking a swipe?

I know the world is not perfect, I never ascertained that it was. I merely said that insulin users should not be automatically barred from such professions. Neither did I say that they should be allowed to retain their licences. I merely said that people should be individually assessed if they wish to take up such professions.

I lost my job as a bus driver. And yes, I'm bitter. I lost my livelihood and I wouldn't wish that on anybody. I fought **** hard to get into the police - a profession which has only recently lifted the ban insulin dependent individuals joining. You may have written yourself off and consider diabetics as a danger - only seeking to please when they have their 'tests' (bit of a generalisation), but I haven't.

Furthermore, I've not made such a 'fuss' over my experience as a police officer. I don't think I've said anything much about it, only that my colleagues seem to trust me behind the wheel of a response car. Funny you should comment on that, yet beat me for turning a blind eye to the experiences of another former officer. Can I not draw on my experience? Can I not have my opinion and am I not allowed to disagree with another? I hear yours and I disagree.

You haven't read my posts properly, I've not made sweeping generalisations. I'm merely asking for people with diabetes to be treated as individuals with regard to certain areas of employment. Obviously there is a need to be cautious. The majority of people may disagree, but I'm sure that of those, most have not lost their job to Type 1 diabetes.

With regard to the 'petition'.....again, you've not followed this thread thoroughly. I said I would sign and support a petition started by a young boy who clearly feels he should be given the opportunity in some areas of employment.

There is no need to make light of the fact I'm not currently suffering with complications. My time will come.

 

[silvermonkey10]

Dipsticky,

You say that "nobody is suggesting all insulin users be banned", then you say that insulin users should NOT be driving hgv, flying planes, etc. So you are proposing that we should all be banned? Your contradictions are confusing.

Jst say you dialled 999 and were given the choice between a diabetic and a non-diabetic responding, are you telling me you'd opt for the latter?

I don't get you.

 

[sugarless sue]

Silver monkey, have you ever considered that ,if you had not lost your job as a bus driver, you would not have become a police officer ? Sometimes life's twists and turns can seem cruel but sometimes they can actually work out better.

Jst say you dialled 999 and were given the choice between a diabetic and a non-diabetic responding, are you telling me you'd opt for the latter?

My answer to that comment would be, I would wish that the person responding to any emergency situation should be in full command and be able to cope with the situation, diabetic or non diabetic!

 

[silvermonkey10]

Sue,

I enjoyed bus driving so much that I'd go back to it tomorrow if they changed the law and I was in good health. But yes, I'm here because of my loss and its not a bad place to be.

Your comment re. response is precisely the point I'm trying to convey. So long as we are deemed fit and capable of doing a job, why can't we do it.

 

[sugarless sue]

Unfortunately, there may come a time, because of long hours or other circumstances, where you may find that you are not in peak condition,diabetes-wise. This can happen to even the best controlled diabetic.

 

[silvermonkey10]

I totally agree. And at this point any sensible person would hold their hands up and step away from what it is they do, if necessary. I've said that in my previous posts.

However, until that time, why can't those that are doing well with the condition be allowed to work in certain jobs? I've had no problems since I was medically retired from the buses. That's so many years of service I could have offered the company....whilst in that time, some of my ex-colleagues have had heart attacks and strokes at the wheel. In the cold light of day, potentially, we are all a danger.

At the moment I can control my diabetes. I don't feel there is anything I can't do. I'm sorry if other people feel differently about themselves. I'm sorry if other people are struggling with the condition. I hate it myself. I hate injecting 5 times a day. Obviously I'm stuck with it and have had to learn to get by.

I've read other posts in this forum - things like kids saying they want to join the police and are worried they can't. They don't need to hear people saying that insulin dependents are a public liability. They need support and encouragement.

 

[silvermonkey10]

What is worse, half the people commenting on this thread in relation to insulin dependency and certain driving roles have no personal experience whatsoever regarding insulin and driving.

I can only assume assumptions are being made....

 

[cugila]

One should never assume things silvermonkey. Assumptions are dangerous things. Not everybody puts their whole life history on here. Some things are personal.