Fat and insulin?

[Kristin251]

I have found if I don't eat a lot of fat at meals I rise after about an hour but if I eat a lot of fat with meals I stay steadier and need less insulin at meals. How would I reduce fat to lose a few pounds without rising? If I take more insulin I will go low 1st. I could split doses but seems counter productive to keep insulin low to lower weight? Am I missing something?

 

[uart]

I have found if I don't eat a lot of fat at meals I rise after about an hour but if I eat a lot of fat with meals I stay steadier and need less insulin at meals.

I find the same. Fats slow down the rate of absorption of carbs, but moreover, increased fat content generally coincides with decreased carb content within a meal. Fat content also seems to improve the satiety effect of a meal (well it certainly does for me), so this can even further reduce the amount of carbs that you are eating.

How would I reduce fat to lose a few pounds without rising? If I take more insulin I will go low 1st. I could split doses but seems counter productive to keep insulin low to lower weight? Am I missing something?

No I don't see it like that. Reducing carbs and thereby reducing insulin requirements is good for weight control. I now believe that fat is not the bad guy that we've been led to believe in terms of weight gain, and that for many people carbs are a bigger factor.

 

[Squire Fulwood]

Eating fat with a meal lowers the GI of the meal even though it might have some high GI components. I suppose that if you chose to eat lower GI foods in the first place then less fat would not raise the overall GI of the meal.

This is just a theory since I have never tried it.

http://www.weightlossresources.co.uk/diet/gi_diet/glycaemic_index_tables.htm

 

[Kristin251]

Thank you for your replies
I should have been more precise. When I say carbs I mean a small handful of green beans or asparagus, sometimes broc. here are my meals..
BF 2/3 avocado (guac) 6 inches celery and a radish
L 1 oz deli turkey with mustard and mayo, small handful green beans and mushrooms with EVOO, a little left over guac, and a radish
Dinner 1/2 can tuna/salmon or 3 oz some other fish (occasionally beef/lamb) a small salad and a few other green veg.
I am giving up nuts because I tend to over eat them and think I have an intolerance. They made a great snack but am trying olives now. I seem to always need 'something' around 1 1/2 hours even if it's only 3 olives.
I eat NO high Gi foods, grains, root veg, sugar, fruit (except avocado) starch etc.
I have been experimenting with taking insulin a few minutes before meals but not sure that is helping. Perhaps I should just continue my main meals, stop the nuts and see what happens? My main diet is always 80% fat, 15% P and 5% carbs all in green veg. I have been doing this even before diabetes. I just have no idea where the weight came from. I just popped 10 pounds on in 3 months. It is steady there but anymore and I need to go pants shopping, haha.
Thoughts?

 

[Brunneria]

How about upping the fibre, rather than the fat?

I realise that you are mainly having higher fibre lower carb veg already, but perhaps some tweaking in that direction?

I have found that either fibre or fat will slow down the spike, and spread it out, particularly if the fibre is raw. For the last few days I have been having a homemade coleslaw fest, which is fascinating.

Provided I eat the coleslaw (which is both raw fibre and fat as homemade mayo) at the beginning of the meal, it seems to smooth out all the spikiness. All the carbs still get digested, of course, but the shape of the curve is more of a low wide foothill than a mountain peak, if you see what I mean.

Another way of upping fibre without calories is somehting like psyllium husks which are indigestible fibre, but still slow down digestion if drunk with a glass of water before the meal. Just ease into them gently, or you may have urgent trips to the smallest room.

 

[Kristin251]

I have been thinking about you and the cole slaw. I have issues with too much raw cabbage but wonder if Nappa cabbage would work. I don't seem to have problems with that type of cabbage.Ever since you posted that I have been craving it! Bok choy may work too. Mayo on anything helps more than EVOO for some reason. Guac work wonders for me too. Maybe I should eat it with all meals. Seems excessive even though I love it. Strange I have no problems digesting it as it too is high in fiber
Psyllium has the opposite effect for me. I would never need a bathroom...haha
The fiber thing is a great idea if I can find one I can digest. That is another issue that makes eating a struggle for me. No dairy either, uhg.

 

[Kristin251]

also do you think sometimes too much fat or fiber slows things so much that you run out of insulin and go a little higher later around 3 hours? I notice that too. I stay steady for 3 hours and then start rising. I take 1 unit with meals so it seems feasible I could be running out before the protein gets there. I seem to do a lot of gluconeogenesis as I cannot eat any protein with BF or I spike

THought?

 

[tim2000s]

also do you think sometimes too much fat or fiber slows things so much that you run out of insulin and go a little higher later around 3 hours? I notice that too. I stay steady for 3 hours and then start rising. I take 1 unit with meals so it seems feasible I could be running out before the protein gets there. I seem to do a lot of gluconeogenesis as I cannot eat any protein with BF or I spike

THought?

That can be an issue, but you should also be aware that many people who eat a lot of protein "double bolus" once with the meal and then a couple of hours later to manage the rise that takes place as gluconeogenesis kicks in. The second bolus is usually around 50% of the first.

 

[Totto]

Ever tried making sauerkraut coleslaw? I love it.

 

[azure]

@Kristin251 Have you just checked with your doctor that there isn't anything else causing the weight gain (eg thyroid issues, etc)?

Your diet seems very sparse so it's not like you're over-eating in any way or anything.

 

[Kristin251]

That can be an issue, but you should also be aware that many people who eat a lot of protein "double bolus" once with the meal and then a couple of hours later to manage the rise that takes place as gluconeogenesis kicks in. The second bolus is usually around 50% of the first.

I I do have a meal with a lot of protein I do double bolus. I don't eat a lot of protein normally. 1 oz at lunch and 3 oz dinner. It does seem more than 3 oz would require a double bolus but I tend to eat small meals in size due to digestion issues. I have always been a grazer but now need to keep that to a minimum of course.

@Kristin251 Have you just checked with your doctor that there isn't anything else causing the weight gain (eg thyroid issues, etc)?

Your diet seems very sparse so it's not like you're over-eating in any way or anything.

The nuts kept my calorie content quite high. I was probably eating 3 oz macadamias by the end of the day! I have never required a lot of calories and have much more energy if I keep meals small. Too much food in general bogs me down. I haven't eaten carbs in many years as I would fall comatose asleep 45 min later but I have always done better on lots of fat. I love my mayo

I had thyroid done 6 months ago and all good. Going to endo next Monday so will be requesting that as well. I tend to run closer to hyer than hypo but things do change...

Ever tried making sauerkraut coleslaw? I love it.

The thought of sauerkraut has me wincing, haha. Love it but it does not love me back.

 

[Brunneria]

also do you think sometimes too much fat or fiber slows things so much that you run out of insulin and go a little higher later around 3 hours? I notice that too. I stay steady for 3 hours and then start rising. I take 1 unit with meals so it seems feasible I could be running out before the protein gets there. I seem to do a lot of gluconeogenesis as I cannot eat any protein with BF or I spike

THought?

The moment I saw this, I thought of @tim2000s - but he got there first!

 

[tim2000s]

I do have a meal with a lot of protein I do double bolus. I don't eat a lot of protein normally. 1 oz at lunch and 3 oz dinner. It does seem more than 3 oz would require a double bolus but I tend to eat small meals in size due to digestion issues. I have always been a grazer but now need to keep that to a minimum of course.

There is nothing to stop you double bolusing with smaller amounts of insulin if you are seeing rises anyway. It's the essence of Sugar Surfing and is far more effective at maintaining control...

 

[azure]

The nuts kept my calorie content quite high. I was probably eating 3 oz macadamias by the end of the day! I have never required a lot of calories and have much more energy if I keep meals small. Too much food in general bogs me down. I haven't eaten carbs in many years as I would fall comatose asleep 45 min later but I have always done better on lots of fat. I love my mayo

I had thyroid done 6 months ago and all good. Going to endo next Monday so will be requesting that as well. I tend to run closer to hyer than hypo but things do change...
.

I love macadamias too! The only thing that stops me eating a packet at a time is the price here : D

Another thought occurred to me - could some of the weight gain be due to weight you lost prior to diagnosis? When I was diagnosed, I put on weight (and more than I'd lost too) but as my body settled down my weight normalised.

My final thought is could you have some level of insulin resistance?

 

[Kristin251]

There is nothing to stop you double bolusing with smaller amounts of insulin if you are seeing rises anyway. It's the essence of Sugar Surfing and is far more effective at maintaining control...

I agree not only does it give me better BS control but I also feel more stable. Do you think 1 unit with the meal and 1/2 45 minutes later would be good? I still wouldn't eat slabs of protein as I don't feel good with lots. I guess my meter will tell me

I love macadamias too! The only thing that stops me eating a packet at a time is the price here : D

Another thought occurred to me - could some of the weight gain be due to weight you lost prior to diagnosis? When I was diagnosed, I put on weight (and more than I'd lost too) but as my body settled down my weight normalised.

My final thought is could you have some level of insulin resistance?

Once I get going on the macs (or any other nuts for that matter) I forget the price, haha. Not cheap here either. I have better portion control with pistachios. 2 or 3 and I'm good
Good thought on the weight gain from Dx but I don't think so. I was Dx'd almost 2 years ago and I did put the 20#s I rapidly lost on in two months. It stayed steady there for about a year then slowly rising and about 8 in the last 3 months. I have been on and off with the nuts so not overly optimistic it is them. I will be 52 in May so hormones might come into play. I don't necessarily need to lose the weight but I do need it to stop right now, LOL.

Thanks for all the help every one. Lots to consider

 

[Kristin251]

Insulin resistance? Good question, you tell me...
A high fat meal keep the spike slow and low. However, a high fat meal can also make us IR. I take 1 unit with meals. A 1/2 unit correction bolus away from food can drop me 20-30. I do wonder if the nuts made me IR or kept things slow and low from meal to meal?
My typical (with a few odd ones) BS readings are around 80 fasting and 80-115 (usually around 105)before the next meal. I realize these are good numbers but I still would like to tighten up the spike somehow. Maybe I will have to bolus 1/2 and have a small snack in between a meal.
Can we ever get this right without testing every hour? LOL Would I be better off just letting it ride up and take insulin 15 min before the next meal? Fluctuating BS makes me crawl out of my skin

 

[tim2000s]

I agree not only does it give me better BS control but I also feel more stable. Do you think 1 unit with the meal and 1/2 45 minutes later would be good? I still wouldn't eat slabs of protein as I don't feel good with lots. I guess my meter will tell me

Exactly that - use your meter to work out the appropriate dose.

My typical (with a few odd ones) BS readings are around 80 fasting and 80-115 (usually around 105)before the next meal. I realize these are good numbers but I still would like to tighten up the spike somehow.

115 isn't a spike. Non-diabetics reach above 140, they just don't stay there as long as Ds tend to. 115 is right in the middle of where you should be!

 

[azure]

Insulin resistance? Good question, you tell me...
A high fat meal keep the spike slow and low. However, a high fat meal can also make us IR. I take 1 unit with meals. A 1/2 unit correction bolus away from food can drop me 20-30. I do wonder if the nuts made me IR or kept things slow and low from meal to meal?
My typical (with a few odd ones) BS readings are around 80 fasting and 80-115 (usually around 105)before the next meal. I realize these are good numbers but I still would like to tighten up the spike somehow. Maybe I will have to bolus 1/2 and have a small snack in between a meal.
Can we ever get this right without testing every hour? LOL Would I be better off just letting it ride up and take insulin 15 min before the next meal? Fluctuating BS makes me crawl out of my skin

I do think tiny insulin adjustments can help. Yes, it's tedious to have to test and experiment, but I make myself do it. I find moving the time of my bolus can make a big difference (for me, at least).

Another thing - and this may not be at all relevant - but, for example, I find if I skip breakfast or have a late breakfast I'm very prone to my blood rising. I now avoid doing that. Just one example of how little changes can help.

You mentioned your age and hormones. I don't know anything about your particular circumstances, but never underestimate hormones. When I was on the Pill, I put on weight almost overnight. I also found my blood sugar was higher than usual and control was harder. I'd never have believed hormones coukd have such an effect, particularly on weight gain, until I saw it with my own eyes.

 

[Kristin251]

Exactly that - use your meter to work out the appropriate dose.



115 isn't a spike. Non-diabetics reach above 140, they just don't stay there as long as Ds tend to. 115 is right in the middle of where you should be!

Today 3 hours after BF and light yoga BS went from 77 to 98. Not a big deal BUT I took 1/2 unit and had a piece of romaine swiped with mayo and 2 olives. Maybe that will help with lunch bolus by having a little residual left. I started backing lunch insulin up as well and again rose 3 hours after, I just think I run out before all my foods are digested being on such low doses so maybe adding a little in between will help from meal to next meal.

I do think tiny insulin adjustments can help. Yes, it's tedious to have to test and experiment, but I make myself do it. I find moving the time of my bolus can make a big difference (for me, at least).

Another thing - and this may not be at all relevant - but, for example, I find if I skip breakfast or have a late breakfast I'm very prone to my blood rising. I now avoid doing that. Just one example of how little changes can help.

You mentioned your age and hormones. I don't know anything about your particular circumstances, but never underestimate hormones. When I was on the Pill, I put on weight almost overnight. I also found my blood sugar was higher than usual and control was harder. I'd never have believed hormones coukd have such an effect, particularly on weight gain, until I saw it with my own eyes.

I am not sure backing up my bolus works. It seems to FOR the meal but then I go higher after. It is helping with BF for sure. I Am going to try adding 1/2 until with a small snack in between BF and L to see if that helps. I also think I run out of Lantus during the day as I only take 2 sometimes 3 units so I don't think it covers me during the day. I tried taking 1 unit in the morning and hypo'd all day so that is not an option.

Thanks again, you are helping my brain figure things out. What's one extra stick right? No biggy. Wish me luck!
Ah yes, dreaded hormones.. Pre DX they told me I was post menopause and this past June they said I was back to peri menopause so surely those buggers mux into the equation. I haven't had a period for over 7 years. I had ablation so I have no way of knowing what's going on.
It's all a mystery

 

[xxAJxx]

I have found if I don't eat a lot of fat at meals I rise after about an hour but if I eat a lot of fat with meals I stay steadier and need less insulin at meals. How would I reduce fat to lose a few pounds without rising? If I take more insulin I will go low 1st. I could split doses but seems counter productive to keep insulin low to lower weight? Am I missing something?

Meaty, higher fat meals will require less insulin as it contains less sugar, you should take less insulin to cover that particular meal, when you eat, write down what you've eaten and check/record your sugar levels, this will give you a better understanding on what foods make you high/low/level that way you can learn to adjust your own insulin depending on what you've eaten i find it best to take my insulin after a meal as i may not clear my plate