Does low carb work for everyone?

[Donnadoobie]

I am just wondering if anyone on here has found that a low carb diet has not improved their blood sugars.

I'll start off just over a year ago when my Hba1c came back at 49. I was told that they needed a second test to confirm diabetes but I went into panic. Cut sugar, swapped to who,e grains, made my own ketchup, bread, baked beans etc and was so careful. Weight fell off and I felt well and three weeks later my Hba1c was 43, I was told I was still pre diabetic. Over the next few months my weight continued to drop with 5:2 and lower but 'good' carbs and blood sugars seemed OK! Fasting levels ranged from 3.9 - 6 ish but mostly in the 4's or 5's, I felt as if I was making progress. A few months later and I saw my FBS rise to low to mid 6's, which is when I found this board and learned about low carb diets, which I follow with about 50g carbs a day. FBS did not drop they more or less stayed the same and Hba1c in Oct was 43. Over the coming months blood sugar levels remained fairly stable, mostly in 5 or 6's both fasting and at other times of the day, but no dramatic drops like people suggest.

having finished the 800 a day diet, I went for a mother Hba1c which has come back at 40, normal range, my weight is the lowest for 25 years but my FBS is a little higher these days and generally blood sugar readings during the day are slightly higher too.

I have read somewhere that low carb diets can cause the body to go into stress, producing more cortisol, thus increasing blood sugar and other theories that because the body is depleted in glycogen stores it throws out more glucose produced from protein to compensate. I am I one of those unlucky people that low carbing doesn't work for? And if so does anyone have any suggestions on where to go from here, maybe increase carbs a little, until I find the right balance?

 

[Alzebra]

Hi Donna, you may be experiencing dawn phenomenon raising your FBG a little, but your HbA1c results are fab, you've dropped into 'normal range' so I'd say LCHF is working for you. Are you eating a lot of protein?

 

[Donnadoobie]

Probably around 70-80 g a day

 

[Kristin251]

Actually I would decrease carbs. I need to stay under 20. Also in the absence of carbs 50% of protein can convert to glucose. Protein is the only food I ALWAYS weigh. Anything over 3 oz at a time raises me. MOST adults only need 4-6 oz a DAY split over 3 meals and 4 hours apart. I eat an out 40g a day.
10 BF, 10 lunch and 20 dinner. I get a little more with plant protein such as pumpkin seeds, avocado and veggies.

Any chance of carb creep? Maybe eating more than you thought?
Eating excess protein?

It appears with the results you have seen low carb does work for you but you may need some tweaking. Such as measuring / lowering carbs. Checking protein etc.
do you go up after exercise? All these will effect bs and a1c

 

[TorqPenderloin]

The massive drops you hear about are usually people who started with an a1c over 100 and had extremely poor eating habits.

Personally, I think the low-carb approach is an excellent way to measure someone’s true insulin resistance, but it’s not necessarily an approach that makes someone less resistant to insulin.

To explain that statement, there’s a reason why most people can’t just low-carb diet for a year and then stop. While there are a few people that can, I would argue that it’s because of the weight (fat) loss or lifestyle changes (exercise) that accompanied the low carb diet.

Think about it this way: if you have a small amount of insulin resistance, you could easily magnify it by eating a high-carb 5000 calorie diet every day, right?

However, if you have a large amount of insulin resistance, even the perfect diet may not keep your blood sugar in check without taking medication.

 

[DavidGrahamJones]

. . . . . . maybe increase carbs a little, until I find the right balance?

It's a fine balance, bit like this:-

 

[Kristin251]

Making your own ketchup bread beans etc I'm sure is step ahead but all those foods would spike me. I become very insulin resistant for days if I over eat carbs and grain as well as fat gorges. It is finding balanced low carb meals that will take you the farthest. Yes, not fun weighing measuring and balancing but if good control is your priority it is important to do these things. Eventually it becomes routine eating the meals you know work. For many of us it is not about huge variety.

 

[Donnadoobie]

I don't make them anymore @Kristin251, I gave them up when I became low carb in August last year. That's is the thing, my FBS were lower then than now!

I do have a habit if over thinking things and can worry a little too much which I am sure doesn't help. I will keep going with the low carb and experiment with a little more or a little less and see what happens. I have just reached the weight I want to be so want to maintain if possible. I have a whole year until my next Hba1c so find the perfect balance for me.

Thank you for your advice.

 

[Neohdiver]

To explain that statement, there’s a reason why most people can’t just low-carb diet for a year and then stop. While there are a few people that can, I would argue that it’s because of the weight (fat) loss or lifestyle changes (exercise) that accompanied the low carb diet.

It varies tremendously depending on what flavor of Type 2 diabetes you have. My blood glucose dropped from an average of 8.9 to an average of 6.0 within 3 days of changing to a low-carb diet. I certainly didn't lose any significant quantity of weight in 3 days. It has remained steady (it is now 5.9) after 45 lbs of weight loss (23% of my body weight). I have not added exercise to my routine, other than walking and climbing stairs when the opportunity presents itself (which I have always done anyway). I have tested to see if I have any greater ability to tolerate carbs after the weight loss - and I do not. It remains steady at around 20 grams in a 3 hour period.

My own family has two completely different genetic links to diabetes - neither of which are weight related or weight-controllable. My mother (who eats within the ADA guidelines) lost a similar quantity of weight, swims an hour at least 3x every week, and her A1c has slowly but steadily increased (it is in the 7%+ range). My grandfather (from whom I inherited my diabetes - as did everyone my age or older who descends from him) was skinny as a rail. My spouse's nephew (not blood related to me) lost a similar percentage of body weight - and his A1c has gotten dramatically worse. My spouse (same ancestor as my nephew) was normal weight at diagnosis.

Not all BG control is associated weight or exercise, so the argument that weight or lifestyle changes are what made the difference for people who are eating low carb is a bit uninformed - and really frustrating because it echoes what virtually all of the diabetes educators say. It is uniformly followed by throwing up their hands when losing weight is either not appropriate or does not help. I hope we can strive for better informed discourse here.

If you are overweight, it certainly doesn't hurt to lose weight - but it is NOT the be-all, end-all answer to control of blood glucose.

 

[TorqPenderloin]

Not all BG control is associated weight or exercise, so the argument that weight or lifestyle changes are what made the difference for people who are eating low carb is a bit uninformed - and really frustrating because it echoes what virtually all of the diabetes educators say. It is uniformly followed by throwing up their hands when losing weight is either not appropriate or does not help. I hope we can strive for better informed discourse here.

If you are overweight, it certainly doesn't hurt to lose weight - but it is NOT the be-all, end-all answer to control of blood glucose.

I would agree with those statements, but they have nothing to do with my previous comments so I’m not sure why you quoted my post. As I specifically mentioned, I was speaking of “A few people” among those with type 2 diabetes. I was speaking of a very small population of people who no only are able to control their type 2 diabetes with diet and exercise, but actually REVERSE their type 2 diabetes.

I can't really tell if you were agreeing with me or not, but the examples you used strong support the points I was trying to make.

 

[Enclave]

Probably around 70-80 g a day

I was on 20g of carbs a day .. it has worked for me,
if this is 70-80g of carbs it is still quite high

 

[Neohdiver]

I would agree with those statements, but they have nothing to do with my previous comments so I’m not sure why you quoted my post. As I specifically mentioned, I was speaking of “A few people” among those with type 2 diabetes. I was speaking of a very small population of people who no only are able to control their type 2 diabetes with diet and exercise, but actually REVERSE their type 2 diabetes.

I can't really tell if you were agreeing with me or not, but the examples you used strong support the points I was trying to make.

I was responding to the portion I quoted - in which you argued that it was not low carb that made the difference - that the change was attributable to weight loss and lifestyle change. The examples I gave directly contradict that proposition (for those individuals). Weight loss and/or exercise played no role in altering BG metabolism for any of the 5 individuals I described.

 

[andcol]

When you low carb the body raises it's own insulin resistance to help it maintain its glucose levels for key processes. This keeps you fairly flat but with a slightly raised BG level. It is called physiological IR. You could be seeing this. My fasting goes from 5.0 to 5.6 when I seriously low carb.

 

[TorqPenderloin]

I was responding to the portion I quoted - in which you argued that it was not low carb that made the difference - that the change was attributable to weight loss and lifestyle change. The examples I gave directly contradict that proposition (for those individuals). Weight loss and/or exercise played no role in altering BG metabolism for any of the 5 individuals I described.

I guess I'm confused as to what your point is? Yes, if you take my words out of context, you can make me sound uninformed.

If we're specifically discussing the rare few who have actually been able to reduce their insulin resistance then, yes...I would argue that the change was attributable to weight loss and lifestyle change. However, I fail to understand how that has anything to do with the five examples you mentioned. Those examples would be relevant if your family members had found ways to reverse their diabetes through methods other than diet and exercise.

A low carb diet is a way to CONTROL your diabetes. However, it is not necessarily a way to REVERSE your diabetes. That was a statement I've already made,and I felt was very clear.

Let's not put words in my mouth and suggest that I'm saying ALL type 2 diabetes can be reversed with diet and exercise....those words never once left my mouth and I've made that very clear numerous times.

 

[Neohdiver]

A low carb diet is a way to CONTROL your diabetes. However, it is not necessarily a way to REVERSE your diabetes. That was a statement I've already made,and I felt was very clear.

Your assertion seems to be that people who say they have reversed diabetes through eating low carb really reversed it because of something else: an associated weight loss and increase in exercise, not eating low carb. ("I would argue that it’s because of the weight (fat) loss or lifestyle changes (exercise) that accompanied the low carb diet")

That is what I was objecting to - your discounting the possibility that low carb (or perhaps the 800 calorie diet as another variation) could be directly responsible for a change in BG metabolism by attributing it to something else.

 

[Donnadoobie]

I was on 20g of carbs a day .. it has worked for me,
if this is 70-80g of carbs it is still quite high

No that was protein. I usually am under 50g of carbs.

 

[TorqPenderloin]

Your assertion seems to be that people who say they have reversed diabetes through eating low carb really reversed it because of something else: an associated weight loss and increase in exercise, not eating low carb. ("I would argue that it’s because of the weight (fat) loss or lifestyle changes (exercise) that accompanied the low carb diet")

That is what I was objecting to - your discounting the possibility that low carb (or perhaps the 800 calorie diet as another variation) could be directly responsible for a change in BG metabolism by attributing it to something else.

Now we're back on track. For the most part, yes, that's what I was suggesting.

Either way, none of this is proven, and I wholeheartedly welcome anyone to share anything that evidences other ways of reducing insulin resistance (short of something like surgery).

Again, it's important to define the difference between having a normal a1c because of a low-carb diet, and actually reversing (read as *curing*) type 2 diabetes.

My point in all of this was to ensure our new friend Donna had realistic expectations for a low-carb diet, and to help her understand what it could help achieve and what it may not be able to achieve.

 

[Brunneria]

To have a bash at your original question:

You asked 'does LC work for everyone?'

I think the answer is of course not. There are any number of reasons why LC isn't going to be a universal panacea, from gall stones and pancreatitis to a refusal to eat veg.

But really i think what you are saying is that you want LC to reverse your T2, and sadly no one can guarantee that of ANY diet, or treatment, or lifestyle change.

On the other hand, you have seen stupendous weight loss (which i have not) and a vast improvement in your overall health plus your blood glucose readings are now under excellent dietary control (as are mine).

 

[Neohdiver]

Again, it's important to define the difference between having a normal a1c because of a low-carb diet, and actually reversing (read as *curing*) type 2 diabetes.

My point is that the same is true of losing weight. It is equally important to define the difference between having a normal a1c because of losing weight and exercising, and actually reversing (read as *curing*) type 2 diabetes.

Your argument above presumed that losing weight/exercising can cause a reversal of diabetes (the ADA presumption behind telling people to lose weight, have bariatric surgery, etc), but that a claim of curing diabetes with a low carb diet is presumptively wrong and must be proven ("I would argue that it’s because of the weight (fat) loss or lifestyle changes (exercise)")

The causation could just as easily be the reverse (or neither). It is equally important not to give new folks unrealistic expectations about the power of weight loss because, for many, weight (loss) is completely or nearly irrelevant.

 

[TorqPenderloin]

We're getting off-topic again. Our friend Donna has already said that she's at her lowest weight in 25 years and at the weight she wants to be. Consequently, making this a discussion about weight loss is useless to her as she's obviously not one of the lucky few who can simply lose weight and reduce her insulin resistance.

If you'd like to continue our discussion, you're welcome to private message me.