PHE say NOF advice to eat high fat is irresponsible

[Dark Horse]

The National Obesity Forum has published a report suggesting eating fat could help cut Obesity and Type 2 diabetes. Public Health England's Chief Nutritionist says the advice is irresponsible and that official guidance is based on thousands of studies whereas the document from the National Obesity Forum lists only 43 sources, many of which are "comment pieces" rather than peer-reviewed studies.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-36345768

Edited to try and correct URL.

 

[zand]

Well surely the proof of the pudding...etc.etc. It's irresponsible to keep pushing low fat that's for sure, we've seen the damage that causes.

 

[ChrisSamsDad]

It continues: "And he said he was worried that the National Obesity Forum report "is not peer reviewed and does not indicate who wrote it or how it was funded"." Shame he doesn't apply the same logic to the government's main advisers, The British Nutrition Foundation, who are a lobby group for the processed food industry.

 

[Clase]

Good morning. It was interesting that the report was in our newspaper today but tucked away near the bottom of page 8. I'm another one who has proved that cutting all processed foods and eating medium to low carb works. I've lost over a stone (it's slow but continuing) but more importantly,I have cut 2 of my 3 gliclazide and my blood sugar is more stable than it's ever been in 23years with type 2. It's often 5.3 before a meal and the same two hours after.

 

[carol43]

It doesn't do my blood sugar much good when I end up shouting at the radio.

 

[amgrundy]

LCHF diet works for me in 4 months lost over a stone BG readings Jan 2016 19.3 down to 4s and 5s feel better than I did in a long time, IBS no problem any more lots more energy. I am 65yrs old don't exercise as keep busy minding grandchildren and elderly parents. Eat to my meter yogurts berries eat every day pears 1 a day. I will back the LCHF diet any day.

 

[Oldvatr]

The National Obesity Forum has published a report suggesting eating fat could help cut Obesity and Type 2 diabetes. Public Health England's Chief Nutritionist says the advice is irresponsible and that official guidance is based on thousands of studies whereas the document from the National Obesity Forum lists only 43 sources, many of which are "comment pieces" rather than peer-reviewed studies.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-36345768k

The link does not work. Error 404 Page not found.
Found this one which was active today
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/headlines/36356756
EDIT: this link is no longer active.

EDIT to Add: The link DarkHorse posted has a typo in it: try this one instead:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-36345768
Edit: DarkHorse has corrected that post.

 

[BlooTwo]

It seems to work for me. Just over 7 weeks ago I started eating LCHF and intermittent fasting (I eat only after 2pm and before 8pm). I've lost 8kgs and and dropped a dress size. My blood glucose measurements are in the 4s and low 5s. Indigestion, which had become a chronic condition, has all but disappeared. I feel fitter and full of energy.
I've still got about 4 stones to lose, but I eat to satiety and never feel hungry or deprived.

 

[zand]

It seems to work for me. Just over 7 weeks ago I started eating LCHF and intermittent fasting (I eat only after 2pm and before 8pm). I've lost 8kgs and and dropped a dress size. My blood glucose measurements are in the 4s and low 5s. Indigestion, which had become a chronic condition, has all but disappeared. I feel fitter and full of energy.
I've still got about 4 stones to lose, but I eat to satiety and never feel hungry or deprived.

Your last sentence is the key here. In most other weight loss regimes you have to deprive yourself so you feel hungry, so they are doomed to failure long term.

 

[Squire Fulwood]

I've already written this twice today but I like to spread it around. The opposing doctors have said that there are thousands of reports linking fat to high cholesterol and heart disease. Could one of them please send a reference to one of these reports to Dr. Kendrick who, I believe, is still waiting.

 

[jpr3323]

Good morning. It was interesting that the report was in our newspaper today but tucked away near the bottom of page 8. I'm another one who has proved that cutting all processed foods and eating medium to low carb works. I've lost over a stone (it's slow but continuing) but more importantly,I have cut 2 of my 3 gliclazide and my blood sugar is more stable than it's ever been in 23years with type 2. It's often 5.3 before a meal and the same two hours after.

I agree that a high fat intake is counter intuitive, surely fat begets fat? I too have lost two stone in a year by cutting out fried food, processed products (especially meat products) all possible sugar (I use sweetener and check all labels when shopping). I use skimmed milk, wholemeal bread, and so on. It can be a bore, but cholesterol comes from animals so I have been vegan for a couple of months trial (I have re-introduced eggs as I love them, but not too often!)
Eating more protein cuts down the need and appetite for carbohydrates and satisfies one sooner so meals can be smaller.
Low GI foods are better, but carbohydrates vary and are not all bad, oats for example are probably the best thing you can eat.
I think the key to T2DB is to educate oneself.
As for exercise, go easy, walking is probably best. Vigorous exercise produces ketone which is not good.
I look forward to more information on a fatty diet however, I'd love to be able to eat sausages and bacon again!

 

[jpr3323]

I've already written this twice today but I like to spread it around. The opposing doctors have said that there are thousands of reports linking fat to high cholesterol and heart disease. Could one of them please send a reference to one of these reports to Dr. Kendrick who, I believe, is still waiting.

Reports or no reports, it stands to reason, cholesterol clogs arteries, fact, (I should know after a quintuple bypass), cholesterol comes from animal fat. I'm sorry but it doesn't need studies or a nutritionist to connect those dots.

 

[Squire Fulwood]

Reports or no reports, it stands to reason,

It's not me you have to convince, it's this feller.

https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2013/08/09/the-most-unutterable-balls/

 

[andcol]

but cholesterol comes from animals

This is just incorrect. The type of cholesterol that blocks your arteries is made by the body to carry carbohydrates (triglycerides). Can I suggest you have a look at this video by Professor Sikaris who is a cholesterol expert. It is well worth watching. He is a biochemical pathologist who specialises in cholesterol.

To give a one line precise - it is the fructose that causes the issues which is a form of carb and not from animals. Additionally when you have high glucose levels then your body will create more fructose following the polyol pathway.

 

[KevinPotts]

This is just incorrect. The type of cholesterol that blocks your arteries is made by the body to carry carbohydrates (triglycerides). Can I suggest you have a look at this video by Professor Sikaris who is a cholesterol expert. It is well worth watching. He is a biochemical pathologist who specialises in cholesterol.

To give a one line precise - it is the fructose that causes the issues which is a form of carb and not from animals. Additionally when you have high glucose levels then your body will create more fructose following the polyol pathway.

Excellent


Sent from my iPad using DCUK Forum mobile app

 

[amgrundy]

I agree that a high fat intake is counter intuitive, surely fat begets fat? I too have lost two stone in a year by cutting out fried food, processed products (especially meat products) all possible sugar (I use sweetener and check all labels when shopping). I use skimmed milk, wholemeal bread, and so on. It can be a bore, but cholesterol comes from animals so I have been vegan for a couple of months trial (I have re-introduced eggs as I love them, but not too often!)
Eating more protein cuts down the need and appetite for carbohydrates and satisfies one sooner so meals can be smaller.
Low GI foods are better, but carbohydrates vary and are not all bad, oats for example are probably the best thing you can eat.
I think the key to T2DB is to educate oneself.
As for exercise, go easy, walking is probably best. Vigorous exercise produces ketone which is not good.
I look forward to more information on a fatty diet however, I'd love to be able to eat sausages and bacon again!

Hi jpr3323 I eat bacon a couple of times a week not sausages as much never been keen on sausages have you tried bacon?

 

[librarising]

it stands to reason, cholesterol clogs arteries, fact

I think you'll find reason has nothing to do with medical studies.
What is clogging arteries ?
If cholesterol clogs arteries, why doesn't it clog veins ?
As for 'cholesterol', where is it coming from ?

All of these questions have answers here :
https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2016/01/18/what-causes-heart-disease/

"it is true you can find cholesterol in atherosclerotic plaques. No-one is going to deny that... if you start exploring further, you find that the cholesterol you find in atherosclerotic plaques almost certainly comes from the cholesterol rich membranes of RBCs...it seems that the cholesterol does not come from LDL"


Dr Kendrick has written to date 14 parts to a What Causes Heart Disease series (see side panel on link above.)
His anti-statin case can be summed up as

'just because every time you rush into a burning building you see firemen, that doesn't tell you that they started the fire !'

If you read through the whole series you'll see Diabetes cited as a risk factor in many of the stages of heart disease, and the importance of watching your triglyceride levels (rather than your total cholesterol/LDL levels.)

"If you have lots of VLDL in your blood, you will stimulate the production of PAI-1. So, you will have impaired breakdown of blood clots (impaired fibrinolytic activity). Which means that (from the same paper):

‘Hypertriglyceridemia is associated with an increased risk of coronary heart disease (CHD). Impaired endogenous fibrinolytic function is a frequent finding in subjects with hypertriglyceridemia.’

The most common condition where you are most likely to find high VLDL levels is type II diabetes. In type II diabetes there is, always, a high PAI-1 level."
(Part VI)

The whole series is worth a read, and a re-read, and a re-read (when the reader is not medically trained ; )

Hope that illuminates : )

Geoff

 

[RoseofSharon]

I agree that a high fat intake is counter intuitive, surely fat begets fat? I too have lost two stone in a year by cutting out fried food, processed products (especially meat products) all possible sugar (I use sweetener and check all labels when shopping). I use skimmed milk, wholemeal bread, and so on. It can be a bore, but cholesterol comes from animals so I have been vegan for a couple of months trial (I have re-introduced eggs as I love them, but not too often!)
Eating more protein cuts down the need and appetite for carbohydrates and satisfies one sooner so meals can be smaller.
Low GI foods are better, but carbohydrates vary and are not all bad, oats for example are probably the best thing you can eat.
I think the key to T2DB is to educate oneself.
As for exercise, go easy, walking is probably best. Vigorous exercise produces ketone which is not good.
I look forward to more information on a fatty diet however, I'd love to be able to eat sausages and bacon again!

It may be counter intuitive however in your attempt to prove that cutting out fat is the key to weight loss you have also changed more than one variable so how can you be sure that it is the fat that is key to your weight loss? after all you've removed processed foods (which most LCHF also so), all possible sugar, etc. In order to know which variable is responsible (and personally I would argue it's the removal of the processed foods and sugar more than fat) that is responsible for your good results? I'll find some studies and sources for you later.

 

[Oldvatr]

It may be counter intuitive however in your attempt to prove that cutting out fat is the key to weight loss you have also changed more than one variable so how can you be sure that it is the fat that is key to your weight loss? after all you've removed processed foods (which most LCHF also so), all possible sugar, etc. In order to know which variable is responsible (and personally I would argue it's the removal of the processed foods and sugar more than fat) that is responsible for your good results? I'll find some studies and sources for you later.

Even vegans will be making something like 80% of their cholesterol from their food. To add a correction to an earlier posting, cholesterol is not there to transport carbohydrates around the body, they package up the fatty acids required into glycerol bubbles (to make triglicerides) and this glycerol is made from glucogen (i,e.carbs). But primarily the lipid system is for fat transport and disposal. The current theory of arteriosclerosis is that damage to triglicerides and LDL particles is responsible for plaque buildup, and the high fat intake actually helps to reduce this damage. Reduction of LDL damage by oxidation by free radicals and giving up smoking will also help reduce our susceptibility to plaque buildup, whereas a low fat diet has been shown to increase our risk of CVE. The study that did it for me was the one of mortality due to CVE in hospital vs the patients LDL and TC values, and the correlation showed that a higher than expected number of CVE patients had low LDL and low TC values.

 

[ChrisSamsDad]

Reports or no reports, it stands to reason, cholesterol clogs arteries, fact, (I should know after a quintuple bypass), cholesterol comes from animal fat. I'm sorry but it doesn't need studies or a nutritionist to connect those dots.

Yeah, it's dead simple that medicine, why they need to study for all those years to do it is beyond me. Brain surgery? Easy - cut their head open: take the bad bits out: sew 'em up again. Nutrition? Eat less if you're fat; Eat more if you're too thin; Diabetes? Well, I WAS eating lots of fat and very few carbs, getting my blood sugar down to normal, blood pressure down; Cholesterol within normal ranges, but now you've given us the ultimate truth without all the bother of that messy science with their 'proof' and 'evidence' and all that other intellectual stuff clever people who work full time at it are always going on about - I'll clearly have to rethink.