The Big Fat Lies about Britain's obesity epidemic

[ally5555]

Goodness graham - do u kep every post . I believe sarah works for the NHS and is analysing peoples diets as part of a web site - so she is an employee!

Graham - low carbing is dying in the general popualation and that is a fact - the GI diet has taken over. My crude figures from the GP surgeries are also showing that - people get fed up with it. A moderate carb approach works - I have the results with my own pts and you will not accept it .

There are also enough studies that show that a calorie restriction works. Google it ! Apart from you most low carbers eat a low calorie diet - BBC showed that and very crudely so do my food diaries.

You may be able to follow it but many cannot.

Do you keep all my posts by the way ?!

 

[fergus]

Hmmmm, let's see, 95% of diets ultimately fail and the vast majority of those are based upon calorie restriction.So where are these reports showing that calorie restriction works? I'd love to see them. :roll:
Now, if calorie restricted diets almost inevitably fail (and they do) this surely exposes their flawed premise? If we restrict calorie intake to a level below calorie expenditure, the inevitable consequence is hunger. That's partly why they fail of course. So we then have to ask why it is that low carbohydrate dieters have a much higher success rate when they tend not to consciously restrict calorie intake? If they do (and I don't) eat a low calorie diet by default and without hunger that ought to be something the dietetics profession should be very interested in, rather than instinctively dismiss?
If you are interested, Hannah Sutter's company is having great success offering low carbohydrate foods to their customers. The business has doubled in size each year since it started. Or maybe they're just bucking the trend?

fergus

 

[graham64]

Goodness graham - do u kep every post . I believe sarah works for the NHS and is analysing peoples diets as part of a web site - so sh!e is an employee

Yes she does work for the NHS and her advice is Eat plenty of starchy carbohydrates The site that she is selling her services on has no connection with the NHS. google dietfreedom which is a commercial site.

Graham - low carbing is dying in the general popualation and that is a fact - the GI diet has taken over. My crude figures from the GP surgeries are also showing that - people get fed up with it. A moderate carb approach works - I have the results with my own pts and you will not accept it .

Lowcarbing is going from strength to strength Ally not only as way to control diabetes but as a weight loss diet, if as you say the GI diet has taken over I have yet to see any evidence of that. Have a look at the forum many have adopted Low Carb as the way to gain control. Is it not you that won't accept the the achievements of the Lowcarbers. I'm heading for 2 years since diagnosis still medication free, no complications despite your dire warnings and my general health has never been better.

There are also enough studies that show that a calorie restriction works. Google it ! Apart from you most low carbers eat a low calorie diet - BBC showed that and very crudely so do my food diaries.
You may be able to follow it but many cannot.

There are also many studies that show calorie restricted diets don't work, If your a diabetic Low Carb is easy to follow, stray and your BG numbers rocket what better incentive is there. I enjoy my diet and love my meter readings .

Do you keep all my posts by the way ?!

No Ally I do have some that I need to reference occasionally, but like tonight my memory and the search facility here is enough

Graham

 

[noblehead]

Goodness graham - do u kep every post . I believe sarah works for the NHS and is analysing peoples diets as part of a web site - so she is an employee!

Graham - low carbing is dying in the general popualation and that is a fact - the GI diet has taken over. My crude figures from the GP surgeries are also showing that - people get fed up with it. A moderate carb approach works - I have the results with my own pts and you will not accept it .

There are also enough studies that show that a calorie restriction works. Google it ! Apart from you most low carbers eat a low calorie diet - BBC showed that and very crudely so do my food diaries.

You may be able to follow it but many cannot.

Do you keep all my posts by the way ?!

Can't say for sure which diet is growing in popularity or indeed which one is demising, don't really care either, I know that by consuming moderate levels of carbs together with eating low-gi foods, my bg's have never been better!

No one is right, no one is wrong, which ever diet that fulfils you nutritionaly, improves control, but above all else, one that you can live happily with for the rest of your life.......... that is the one to follow!

Nigel

 

[ally5555]

It does not matter who is right but once again some one like Hannah Sutter is set up as a beacon! She runs a business and my cynical mind thinks would she have done with out the opportunity to make alot!

Enough said.

However i have had the opportunity to try some of her products - oh dear!!!!!

I would rather spend my money on real food!

 

[sugarless sue]

No one is right, no one is wrong, which ever diet that fulfils you nutritionally, improves control, but above all else, one that you can live happily with for the rest of your life.......... that is the one to follow!

Spot on Nigel !

 

[Fujifilm]

(repeat a lie often enough & it will be accepted as true)

You are spot on with that, its a bit like the global warming myth.

 

[Dillinger]

No one is right, no one is wrong, which ever diet that fulfils you nutritionaly, improves control, but above all else, one that you can live happily with for the rest of your life.......... that is the one to follow!

Nigel

This ‘we are all different, there is not right or wrong’ comes up a lot here. It seems to used really as an attempted argument ender, but without much merit as far as I can see. The reason being is that we are essentially all looking at how our glucose metabolism and insulin response works; either innate insulin or ‘added’ insulin in the case of all Type 1’s and some Type 2’s and Type 1.5’s. Now, this is not some subjective mystery affected by our star signs and the proximity of healing crystals. It is pure bio-chemistry. And bio-chemistry is not fluid and changeable in different people; the metabolism of glucose in me will be exactly the same as metabolism of glucose in you. There are variable factors of course; basal metabolic rate, energy expenditure, certain types of medication, and type of diet for instance but certain things must apply to us all.

I would therefore respectfully suggest that you can be on the ‘wrong’ diet and without running through all the arguments again logic rather than ‘common sense’ suggests that the way of coping with diabetes is to drastically restrict one’s carbohydrate intake. This will reduce the levels of insulin your produce, if you are lucky enough to have a still functioning pancreas, or the amount you need to inject if you don’t. The reduction in insulin will mean that you will lose weight as insulin is the key fat forming hormone. As a diabetic reduced insulin will also mean smaller variations in your blood sugars; which means better control and less or no yo-yoing.

People coming to the forum for the first time will often be confused and scared about their conditions and I don’t think it helps to have some sort of ‘cultural relativist’ stance saying all views are good and equal and the only thing we should fear is dissent. Listening to the views of people like Fergus and Hanna and the many others on here gave me the confidence to go against the grain in both senses of the word and return to a low-carb diet. Everything has improved for me as a consequence.

Lastly, the whole GI diet seems to me to be just a bit of a gutless low-carbing really. Follow the logic of what it means to eat a low GI diet and why not just rid yourself of everything that peaks your blood sugar levels completely? If you are Type 2 you may well be able to get some great HbA1c’s on a low GI/moderate carbohydrate diet, but you already know that your body has impaired glucose tolerance; you are a diabetic after all. A message has been sent to you by your body if you choose to ignore it so be it, but I feel uncomfortable with people using their depleted pancreatic function as a reason to eat carbohydrates; the very things that did the damage in the first place.

Dillinger

 

[noblehead]

No one is right, no one is wrong, which ever diet that fulfils you nutritionally, improves control, but above all else, one that you can live happily with for the rest of your life.......... that is the one to follow!

Nigel

This ‘we are all different, there is not right or wrong’ comes up a lot here. It seems to used really as an attempted argument ender, but without much merit as far as I can see. The reason being is that we are essentially all looking at how our glucose metabolism and insulin response works; either innate insulin or ‘added’ insulin in the case of all Type 1’s and some Type 2’s and Type 1.5’s. Now, this is not some subjective mystery affected by our star signs and the proximity of healing crystals. It is pure bio-chemistry. And bio-chemistry is not fluid and changeable in different people; the metabolism of glucose in me will be exactly the same as metabolism of glucose in you. There are variable factors of course; basal metabolic rate, energy expenditure, certain types of medication, and type of diet for instance but certain things must apply to us all.

I would therefore respectfully suggest that you can be on the ‘wrong’ diet and without running through all the arguments again logic rather than ‘common sense’ suggests that the way of coping with diabetes is to drastically restrict one’s carbohydrate intake. This will reduce the levels of insulin your produce, if you are lucky enough to have a still functioning pancreas, or the amount you need to inject if you don’t. The reduction in insulin will mean that you will lose weight as insulin is the key fat forming hormone. As a diabetic reduced insulin will also mean smaller variations in your blood sugars; which means better control and less or no yo-yoing.

People coming to the forum for the first time will often be confused and scared about their conditions and I don’t think it helps to have some sort of ‘cultural relativist’ stance saying all views are good and equal and the only thing we should fear is dissent. Listening to the views of people like Fergus and Hanna and the many others on here gave me the confidence to go against the grain in both senses of the word and return to a low-carb diet. Everything has improved for me as a consequence.

Lastly, the whole GI diet seems to me to be just a bit of a gutless low-carbing really. Follow the logic of what it means to eat a low GI diet and why not just rid yourself of everything that peaks your blood sugar levels completely? If you are Type 2 you may well be able to get some great HbA1c’s on a low GI/moderate carbohydrate diet, but you already know that your body has impaired glucose tolerance; you are a diabetic after all. A message has been sent to you by your body if you choose to ignore it so be it, but I feel uncomfortable with people using their depleted pancreatic function as a reason to eat carbohydrates; the very things that did the damage in the first place.

Dillinger

Dillinger,

That's very kind of you to share your wisdom with us all, I am sure there will be many amoung us who will be enlightened by your thought process.

However, may I just point out a couple of things. The variable factors that you refer to at the end of the first paragraph, that explains why we are all different. Agreed.

No one is arguing that carb reduction works, the majority of the forum agree with this, the degree to which you pursue this is purely personal.

As for low-gi being a gutless low-carbing, better that you read up on low-gi diet and the practise behind it, rather than talk a load of nonsense you obviously know nothing about. Gi-diets are growing in popularity, many including myself use this method together with a reduced carb diet.

Lastly, carbohydrates don't cause your pancreas to malfunction. You of all people, being type 1 should know that it is a autoimmune disorder, cause unknown at the moment, some believe it may be a virus or some other trigger that starts the process, but it means that the body makes a
mistake and damages its own insulin producing cells, eventually destroying them, that is when the symptoms appear. So, pardon me for saying, but you are wrong again.

Low-carb diets, low-gi diets, and many other diets are all tools in effectively controlling diabetes. Low-carb diets are more restrictive than a low-gi diet, that is why many who embark on it fail, and don't feel comfortable with the diet, it would be better that they adapt the diet to suit their own ends rather than be dictated too by others. More important in finding the right diet, is knowing that you can stay on it for life, and know that it is fulfilling all your personal needs.

Sorry to say this (not) but we are indeed 'all different'.

Have a nice evening!

Nigel

 

[phoenix]

This ‘we are all different, there is not right or wrong’ comes up a lot here. It seems to used really as an attempted argument ender, but without much merit as far as I can see.

We are all individuals,
1) There are physical differences;
metabolism, weight, age, activity levels , plus most importantly amount of insulin resistance and pancreatic function etc account for huge amount of variability.
2)We differ in our experiences and psychological traits.
Many people have spent a lifetime dieting, they now need something they can stick to for life. A low carb diet does not fit that bill for all people. How many 'fallen off the wagon threads do we read?' I sometimes wonder what has happened when an initially enthusiastic new poster stops posting? Have they given up? We don't know . Research suggests that long term adherance to diets is low.
3)Some of us also do not accept the theses of Garry Taubes and others . I do not want to (quoting you) be 'high phat'. I would prefer to eat a varied, diet that includes elements that may be protective against conditions other than diabetes.This is in my case is an individual choice based upon the evidence I have read.

if we differ, so does our response to different approaches to diabetes control.
If not why can I get good glycemic control using different methods to you? (perhaps of course you might get good control doing what I do)I eat over 100 gm carb more than you , have a good HbA1c (lower than yours I think) and if things haven't changed recently take far less insulin per kg body weight than you do.
( differences between us would include : time with diabetes, gender, age, maybe activity, maybe metabolic rate,maybe I have a few more working beta cells, maybe it's simply that we were born under different signs of the zodiac :wink: ) Who knows? However we are different

At the opposite end of the spectrum, I know of a person who takes over 900 units a day to get reasonable levels, in spite of claiming to eat a low carb diet. Why on earth is he so insulin resistant?
(I don't know, nor I guess does his doctor!)

When new people arrive, none of us know much about them. Even over time we are only privy to what the person tells us. We have to be careful not to give advice that may be dangerous.
One particulat concern of mine, is giving advice that focuses on restriction to people who may have or may be at risk of developing eating disorders
read for example the blogs 'thebuttercompartment' and ' diabulmia sos' ... do you really think that you would advice them to low carb? I don't think they would agree with you. These are type 1 examples and have the extra element of insulin, but eating disorders can also be associated with type 2. The problem is not unusual.

As to the GI, I won't attempt to answer any more. Just give a reference to the gi news who answer far better than I can.
http://ginews.blogspot.com/2006/07/food ... ought.html

I'm glad things have improved for you, but please don't try to say that your method is right for all.

 

[graham64]

Lastly, carbohydrates don't cause your pancreas to malfunction. You of all people, being type 1 should know that it is a autoimmune disorder, cause unknown at the moment, some believe it may be a virus or some other trigger that starts the process, but it means that the body makes a
mistake and damages its own insulin producing cells, eventually destroying them, that is when the symptoms appear. So, pardon me for saying, but you are wrong again.

Nigel

Dillinger was referring to T2 diabetics which is not an autoimmune disorder, so yes running high BGs through a high carb diet can deplete beta cells, restricting carbs and keeping BG under control can slow down the rate of decline.
Kentishman a T2 who has been lowcarbing for 40 years, has been able to stay off insulin. I think he did talk about the possiblity of having to go on insulin but at 85 it's hardly surprising just goes to show the value of restricting carbs for T2s.

http://qjmed.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/con ... l/96/4/281

Graham

 

[timo2]

Well, if you don't mind, Dillinger, I'll be keeping "everybody's different" in my repertoire of clichés, alongside "diabetes is a game of two halves" and "diabetes is a funny old game", if only to exasperate the more pragmatic forum members.

 

[Fujifilm]

Well, if you don't mind, Dillinger, I'll be keeping "everybody's different" in my repertoire of clichés, alongside "diabetes is a game of two halves" and "diabetes is a funny old game", if only to exasperate the more pragmatic forum members.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right. :lol:

 

[Dillinger]

Sorry to say this (not) but we are indeed 'all different'.

Have a nice evening!

Nigel

Nigel,

If you read what I said I was talking about Type 2 diabetics having a problem with glucose metabolism. Which you can’t deny surely? So, if that statement is true why not just get rid of as much glucose as possible?

I think the "eat what you like" diet won't do anyone any good; you wouldn't say to someone with a nut allergy, well just keep eating nuts if you like them so much and keep taking your medicine would you? Sometimes we need to do things in life that are not ideal but are dictated by our circumstances.

By the way, if you are going to post how about leaving the sarcasm out? Or if you are going to be sarcastic and hectoring don't post smilies at me; it doesn't make it all right.

Dillinger

 

[Sid Bonkers]

Dillinger, why is it so hard for you to understand that not everyone wants or needs to be a strict low carber?

I eat a low gi diet with restricted carbs by proxy of smaller portions, I no longer eat cereal for breakfast and I only occationally eat pasta now but other than those exceptions I have no desire to avoid the foods I enjoy eating and see no reason to do so just because you feel I should.

We ARE all different, some of us can accept that fact and some cant, so theres one difference that we can both agree on eh?

 

[Foggitthedoggit]

Well said Sid!

I too control my diabetes with a reduced portion approach, avoid cereals and rarely eat pasta. Once you know what foods are most likely to have an adverse effect on BG/HbA1c if consumed in sufficiently large quantities over a longer term then managing the dysfunctional pancreas is not much of a problem. In fact some might say that it should be common sense (with a little self discipline on the side).

I also no longer test my BG, as I have said elsewhere recently, and until my HbA1c shows any inclination to rise I will keep it that way.

 

[graham64]

I know the rules have been relaxed but don't forget this is the Low Carb forum, were we do tend to discuss lowcarbing, sorry but that's the way it is.

Graham

 

[noblehead]

Sorry to say this (not) but we are indeed 'all different'.

Have a nice evening!

Nigel

Nigel,

If you read what I said I was talking about Type 2 diabetics having a problem with glucose metabolism. Which you can’t deny surely? So, if that statement is true why not just get rid of as much glucose as possible?

I think the "eat what you like" diet won't do anyone any good; you wouldn't say to someone with a nut allergy, well just keep eating nuts if you like them so much and keep taking your medicine would you? Sometimes we need to do things in life that are not ideal but are dictated by our circumstances.

By the way, if you are going to post how about leaving the sarcasm out? Or if you are going to be sarcastic and hectoring don't post smilies at me; it doesn't make it all right.

Dillinger

Dillinger,

I'll refrain from making excusses for the nature of my reply, I thought it was fitting considering the manner in-which you chose to reply to my message in the first place.

I don't deny for one moment that type 2's have a problem with glucose metabolism, didn't suggest otherwise, but in your second paragraph of your original message you do talk about both type 1 and type 2. This is what you wrote: ' This will reduce the levels of insulin your produce, if you are lucky to have a still functioning pancreas, or the amount you need to inject if you don't'. Quite evident that you are refering to both type's 1 and 2 there.

At no time in this thread have I or any other member suggested that you can ''eat what you like'', where did you get that from?.........certainly wasn't from me, neither have I ever suggested this since joining the forum.

As you say, we are in some way dictated by our circumstances, in which case this is diabetes, but it doesn't stop you from enjoying and leading a full and active life, nor does it stop you from enjoying one of life's greatest pleasures........food! There are many ways to eat a full and varied diet, not totally restrictive, this is why many of us choose to reduce our carb content to moderate amounts that are bodies can handle, withour the peaks and falls, by doing so we incorporate other methods such as portion control and low-gi/gl to achieve this. Stability is achievable, and good glucose control follows with this.

It is your choosing to follow the strict low-carb approach, I wouldn't knock it if it works for you, but you and other low-carbers have to acknowledge that yours isn't the only way. Many forum members achieve great success by following diets of their choosing, there is no one way of achieving this, members old and new must be given the option to choose, and decide which path to follow. This forum is fantastic at providing new members with advice and experience based on our own journeys, it is a open forum where people have a diverse range of opinions which should all be respected, it is up to the individuals who visit us to decide their own course.

So as I said originally, no one is right and no one is wrong, and going by the responces so far, it would seem the majority of members believe that 'we are all different'.

Pheonix has wrote a excellent post should you care to read it!

Regards

Nigel

 

[timo2]

Hey, Graham, I saw this story and thought of you. Let it be a warning! :twisted:

The darker side of low-carb nibbles.

As is so often the case in these instances, it all began with pine nuts at a party. Not wishing to appear prudish as the jar was handed around, I innocently partook of its most moreish contents. I was immediately hit by a wave of euphoric nutrient density, quickly followed by a piney aftershock of oily niceness. From that moment on, my life began to unravel as I surrounded myself with the paraphernalia of the pine-nutter, and happily took on the fridge space commitments associated with such a lifestyle choice. Furthermore, I became helplessly immersed in the seedy world of the health food store.

The next stop on my journey into the fiery Gehenna of mono and polyunsaturated fats was a town called pecan. I was never exclusively a pecan man, normally choosing to combine both pecans and pine nuts for greater effect - perhaps with a few pumpkin seeds occasionally finding their way into a really mind-blowing mix. Some sessions would consist of a generous handful of pecans, followed by a generous handful of pine nuts, followed by another generous handful of pecans, just to take the edge off. However, my tawdry affair with the pecan was swiftly ended by a contaminated batch. A rogue brazil led to a particularly vicious case of heartburn, which served to remind me just what a chancy game being a nutjob is. Then, like a man suddenly remembering that he's left the handbrake off on a steamroller during an oil change, I got the feeling that things were going to get a whole lot worse before they got better.

Thus, perhaps somewhat inevitably, a heady mixture of curiosity and peer pressure threw me willingly into the loving arms of the Macadamia. If I wasn't actually eating Macadamias, then I'd be thinking about eating Macadamias. Mention the cost of anything to me, and I'd immediately tell you how many Macadamias you could've bought with the money instead. Then came my botched raid on a local whole food emporium, during which I was only caught because an employee heard me crawling back along the ceiling heater duct shouting "Macadamias! I've got all the Macadamias!" and raised the alarm. On the plus side, I did received some much-needed help with my addiction from an excellent prison doctor, who weaned me off Macadamias using a mixture of peanut butter and waterboarding.

 

[Administrator]

Keep it clean you mongrels