Not needing insulin

[SamTM]

Hi all!

I have been diabetic for 3 months now, and I'm one of the many few who are in the honeymoon phase. My insulin needs have been getting lower and lower by the day, but for the last few days it's got to the point where I need neither basal nor bolus insulin. I understood when I was on the few units a day, but not needing any seems a bit peculiar - Especially when eating full carby meals, deserts and sweets keeping perfectly normal blood sugars!

I was wondering if anyone else experienced this, and if it was normal. It's just as if I am not diabetic at the moment (although I obviously am)

Thanks a lot,


Sam.

 

[azure]

What are your blood sugars like with no insulin? Ate they staying ok two hours after eating?

If they're ok then that's great. Enjoy the honeymoon and just keep an eye on things. I couldn't go without insulin on my honeymoon, but I did have a tiny amount of basal - one or two units a day plus boluses for food.

 

[gem09]

I didn't have a honeymoon phase if I was you I'd enjoy it while it lasts! Good luck!

Sent from my D5803 using Diabetes.co.uk Forum mobile app

 

[SamTM]

What are your blood sugars like with no insulin? Ate they staying ok two hours after eating?

If they're ok then that's great. Enjoy the honeymoon and just keep an eye on things. I couldn't go without insulin on my honeymoon, but I did have a tiny amount of basal - one or two units a day plus boluses for food.

Yes, are all fine - always below 10 but usually in the normal range!

And it is nice not having to think about anything, I just thought it was a bit odd not needing a single dosage. It's not going to be good though when my honeymoon ends though, as I'll be so used to not worrying aha

 

[SamTM]

I didn't have a honeymoon phase if I was you I'd enjoy it while it lasts! Good luck!

Sent from my D5803 using Diabetes.co.uk Forum mobile app

Yes yes, guess I am a fortunate one. Let's just hope it drags out for a long while, that'll be nice aha. It'll be such a system shock though when it ends saying that though.

Thing is, it just doesn't feel right me not injecting now as I feel I should be..

 

[Bebo321]

I find this very interesting. Has anyone else had this experience of insulin requirements reducing over time after diagnosis. Are Beta cells regenerating? Could @SamTM theoretically recover pancreas function if he 'rests' with a fairly low carb diet for a few months?
Great that you're doing well @SamTM - I would be interested to hear what view others have on this.

 

[sud5nala]

Could @SamTM theoretically recover pancreas function if he 'rests' with a fairly low carb diet for a few months?

Theoretically, no. Speaking of T1, theory would have to change in order for there to be hope of recovering or regaining some beta cell function.

 

[catapillar]

I find this very interesting. Has anyone else had this experience of insulin requirements reducing over time after diagnosis. Are Beta cells regenerating? Could @SamTM theoretically recover pancreas function if he 'rests' with a fairly low carb diet for a few months?
Great that you're doing well @SamTM - I would be interested to hear what view others have on this.

I think this interpretation is a little too optimistic. The beta cells aren't regenerating - they simply aren't dying off as quickly as anticipated. It's not unusual in a honeymoon period for a little while on insulin to give the beta cells a second wind so they are working more effectively, more often this residual beta cell function is intermittent. But they aren't regenerating or recovering function. They just aren't dead, yet. You've not found a cure with diet. Sorry.

Hopefully @SamTM will be able to consider himself LADA and get a lovely long honeymoon period. But if you are taking no insulin,it would be sensible not to take the honeymoon for granted and to continue to test lots, before and after meals. You might want to consider getting a half unit pen to correct occasional spikes with - maybe have a chat to your DSN about how to handle this while you have strong residual insulin production.

 

[Bebo321]

Theoretically, no. Speaking of T1, theory would have to change in order for there to be hope of recovering or regaining some beta cell function.

I'm sure I have read that it is possible for some people to recover beta cell function (I've just been Googling it and evidence is there to support the theory.(http://news.vanderbilt.edu/2014/03/diabetes-researchers-track-cells-ability-to-regenerate/)

So a hypothesis for @SamTM might be:

1) Immune system attacks beta cells
2) Symptoms of diabetes noticed as BG levels begin to climb
3) Insulin is prescribed which supports the pancreas and reduces stress on the remaining functioning beta cells
4) Beta cell function begins to recover (regenerate?)
5) Requirement for insulin diminishes to a point where it is no longer required.

Does this mean that if @SamTM follows a low carb diet (minimise stress on pancreas) and maintains a healthy lifestyle he may actually avoid developing T1 again (unless there is further auto immune attack)?
Has anyone seen or experienced something similar before?

 

[Juicyj]

@Bebo321 unfortunately type 1 is not reversible, once onset begins there is no recovery, testing is essential and once levels start to rise then insulin requirements will need to increase, no one can say for certain how long this period will last as it's different for everyone, and yes a half unit insulin pen will help in reducing high bg when only a small dose needs to be administered. Beta cells can recover some production as once insulin is taken it reduces the stress on the cells, but ultimately in time this will reduce and more insulin will be required. I was under the care of Bristol Hospital in a research program with JDRF, I was able to consult with specialist type 1 doctors and was under no illusion from them that the honeymoon is a temporary phase and full type 1 would eventually kick in, only testing and administering insulin when required could help to extend this period.

 

[Bebo321]

@Bebo321 unfortunately type 1 is not reversible, once onset begins there is no recovery, testing is essential and once levels start to rise then insulin requirements will need to increase, no one can say for certain how long this period will last as it's different for everyone, and yes a half unit insulin pen will help in reducing high bg when only a small dose needs to be administered. Beta cells come recover some production as once insulin is taken it reduces the stress on the cells, but ultimately in time this will reduce and more insulin will be required. I was under the care of Bristol Hospital in a research program with JDRF, I was able to consult with specialist type 1 doctors and was under no illusion from them that the honeymoon is a temporary phase and full type 1 would eventually kick in, only testing and administering insulin when required could help to extend this period.

Thanks for that @Juicyj

 

[SamTM]

I think this interpretation is a little too optimistic. The beta cells aren't regenerating - they simply aren't dying off as quickly as anticipated. It's not unusual in a honeymoon period for a little while on insulin to give the beta cells a second wind so they are working more effectively, more often this residual beta cell function is intermittent. But they aren't regenerating or recovering function. They just aren't dead, yet. You've not found a cure with diet. Sorry.

Hopefully @SamTM will be able to consider himself LADA and get a lovely long honeymoon period. But if you are taking no insulin,it would be sensible not to take the honeymoon for granted and to continue to test lots, before and after meals. You might want to consider getting a half unit pen to correct occasional spikes with - maybe have a chat to your DSN about how to handle this while you have strong residual insulin production.

I do fortunately have a half unit pen for my bolus insulin, but may request for a basal insulin half unit pen!! - and I could be lucky enough to be a LADA diabetic, but am only 18 so not too sure. Only time will tell though..

 

[LauraC27]

Hello! This can be normal for new diabetics yes..
It was for me... i was diagnosed a year ago and pretty soon after diagnosis i almost came off insulin all together for a little while, no matter what i ate my sugar levels kept in the normal range it was great!.. this lasted for a few weeks.. then my numbers started to rise again and slowly over the past year i now inject my levemir morning and night and novorapid every time i eat. There was also a point where i wouldn't have to inject for lunch if i was walking around alot after eating my levels would keep in a good range due to the little insulin my pancreas was still producing by itself. Enjoy it while it lasts for sure! But don't get too comfortable... the time will come to need more insulin! It's just your pancreas having one last go and producing insulin by itself.. pretty normal at the beginning from what i've heard! It's a bit of a rollercoaster at the start but you will get used to it!

 

[SamTM]

Hello! This can be normal for new diabetics yes..
It was for me... i was diagnosed a year ago and pretty soon after diagnosis i almost came off insulin all together for a little while, no matter what i ate my sugar levels kept in the normal range it was great!.. this lasted for a few weeks.. then my numbers started to rise again and slowly over the past year i now inject my levemir morning and night and novorapid every time i eat. There was also a point where i wouldn't have to inject for lunch if i was walking around alot after eating my levels would keep in a good range due to the little insulin my pancreas was still producing by itself. Enjoy it while it lasts for sure! But don't get too comfortable... the time will come to need more insulin! It's just your pancreas having one last go and producing insulin by itself.. pretty normal at the beginning from what i've heard! It's a bit of a rollercoaster at the start but you will get used to it!

Aha yes, I have no choice but to get used to it!! It's all nice now, but'll have the trouble of the needs of insulin rising rapidly. And I've been on near to no insulin for a while now, and have not needed my bolus for a lot of meals. It was just a shock when I needed to stop taking my levemir completely and all just seemed a bit odd. It just feels like I should be taking something each night, but am not!

 

[Diamattic]

Needing reduced or no insulin is not a 'normal' honeymoon from what i have read, but it does happen.

I am someone in the camp who thinks if you see reduced or no insulin requirements its due to beta cell relief, and you should eat super low carb as long as possible to prevent stressing those cells. If you eat normally, you'll just stress them the remainder and they will eventually die and you will need insulin for sure. No/low carb increases your chances of staying off insulin longer.

That is just my opinion based on things i have read here and there.

 

[SamTM]

Needing reduced or no insulin is not a 'normal' honeymoon from what i have read, but it does happen.

I am someone in the camp who thinks if you see reduced or no insulin requirements its due to beta cell relief, and you should eat super low carb as long as possible to prevent stressing those cells. If you eat normally, you'll just stress them the remainder and they will eventually die and you will need insulin for sure. No/low carb increases your chances of staying off insulin longer.

That is just my opinion based on things i have read here and there.

I have tried a low carb diet a few times since becoming diabetic to make my life a bit easier (when I did not realise I was entering the honeymoon), but I am honestly awful with food. Am in good shape and all, but I can't get away from my carbohydrate foods, let alone sugars (have a v sweet tooth)

Was told a while back by my gp that I was addicted to sugar, as used to feel light headed, which eating sugary or carby foods used to relieve. Thinking about, may have been early signs of diabetes but this was happening at least three years back, and if I am correct progression is normally sudden with younger type 1s.

Will try again after today with the low carbs, but I need solid motivation, but just doubt it will happen aha - it is going to be hard cutting down on the chocolate once this phase ends tbh

 

[SamTM]

Also thanks to whoever changed the title of this thread!

- tried but failed -

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Diabetes.co.uk Forum mobile app

 

[sud5nala]

So a hypothesis for @SamTM might be:

3) Insulin is prescribed which supports the pancreas and reduces stress on the remaining functioning beta cells
4) Beta cell function begins to recover (regenerate?)
[. . .]
(unless there is further auto immune attack)?

Of course there's going to be further autoimmune attack.

 

[//Andreea\\]

I'm also off insulin since May. But my situation is a bit different. I was diagnosed in February while I was pregnant. After giving birth, my remaining beta cells started working.

Now I have relatively good BG levels before and after meals with a 200-230 carb diet. I rarely have spikes, usually only after eating more pasta or rice (one reading of 11 two hours after lunch).

But, I keep having hypos if I miss/delay a meal or if I exercise more.

I guess breastfeeding also helps with my BG control.