It doesn't have to turn out like that Panorama programme suggested

ickihun

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have not seen the film yet but sound like it is shock tactics
i known one person who died .
because he would not stop drinking wine and beer every day also he had a smashing family as well and 2 children
also i know somebody who does not care what i say or the hospital now is oversize can not walk far has eye problems
both on insulin
some people do not wish to know how does one get them to improve anyone tell me how ??????????
vic
An injection of positivity not negativity. In the past the results were indeed dire. Not now.
This programme has damaged some very good work accrued by some very positive people. Shame on them.
 

Freema

Expert
Messages
7,346
Type of diabetes
Type 2
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Diet only
have not seen the film yet but sound like it is shock tactics
i known one person who died .
because he would not stop drinking wine and beer every day also he had a smashing family as well and 2 children
also i know somebody who does not care what i say or the hospital now is oversize can not walk far has eye problems
both on insulin
some people do not wish to know how does one get them to improve anyone tell me how ??????????
vic

part of it is anyway that the doctors do not even tell them how low blood glucose ought to be even when diabetic type 2 and they don´t tell them how they can get their blood glucose down the FASTest way... every new diabetic ought be handed a cookbook of some diet choices with delicious pictures and told to live excactly like that the first month
 
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PenfoldAPD

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,643
Type of diabetes
Type 2
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Following last night's Panorama programme, I think we may get new forum members and readers, and I wanted to reassure them that being a Type 2 diabetic does NOT automatically lead to horrendous complications, amputations, misery, trauma and aggressive invasive surgery. There is a huge amount we can do to control the condition and reduce our chances of diabetic complications.

We have a whole thread of the most wonderful success stories to prove it.
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/low-carb-success-stories.3763/
it is currently running at 24 pages of posts from people who feel a darn sight better than those shown on Panorama!

As far as I can see, that programme was designed to shock and frighten, count the cost to the NHS and attempt to drive people into weight loss and surgery to save bankrupting the NHS.

Well, there are alternatives, and believe me when I say that they work amazingly well.

Type 2s can improve their health by
- lowering their blood glucose (diet, exercise, medication, fasting)
- careful use of medication (there is a whole range of meds from Meformin up to Insulin)
- monitoring their blood glucose on a daily basis, at home, allowing them to work out which foods are driving their blood glucose up, and teaching them how to reduce portions or avoid that food completely, in order to bring their blood glucose down to target.

Type 2s CAN change their eating habits and lead a much healthier and happier life - but it requires a change of diet and lifestyle. Personally, I would rather give up wheatabix and frosties and milk chocolate than lose my legs.

Here are a few links that may help:

This link explains in under a minute, the way to reduce carbs but still eat an enjoyable and satisfying diet.
https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/60-seconds
It is known as the LCHF way of eating

For people who want a more structured, gradual approach, there is a Low Carb Programme run by diabetes.co.uk which shows you how to lower your carb intake over a 10 week period and tailor you diet to suit you personally.
https://www.diabetes.co.uk/lowcarb/

Some people are finding that they can actually REVERSE their type 2 diabetes using Low Carbing or very low calorie diets such as the Newcastle Diet (800 calories a day for 8 weeks), because it reduces the fat in their liver, allowing it and the pancreas to function better, and produce enough insulin to control blood glucose again.
http://www.nhs.uk/news/2016/03March/Pages/Could-a-very-low-calorie-diet-cure-type-2-diabetes.aspx
you may also have heard of the 800 calorie Bloodsugar Diet. This is similar to the Newcastle Diet but uses real food instead of diet shakes
https://thebloodsugardiet.com/

Some people are finding that missing meals (known as Intermittent Fasting) is lowering blood glucose and insulin resistance and helping with weight loss.
You can find out more here:
https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/

Exercise can also be remarkably effective, but I haven't focussed on it, because many type 2s feel too drained and tired to exercise, until they get their blood glucose down to a good level. At that point, go for it! :)

ALL of the above are FREE

Monitoring your own blood glucose can be done at home, at a reasonable personal cost. It will tell you how well you are managing your type 2 diabetes, and give you very important information on what foods are driving it up. This is known as Eating To Your Meter, and is, in my opinion, the single most powerful tool in the type 2 toolbox. Most doctors refuse to supply type 2s with a blood glucose meter saying it isn't appropriate. The real reason is cost to the NHS. So many of us buy our own. There are many different meters, but many of us here on the forum go for the SD Codefree since you can get a pot of 50 test strips for about £7, which I consider a bargain. ( I won't include a link, because I don't want to look like I am promoting a particular brand, but shop around before you buy - there are some very expensive ones out there if you are not careful and you need to bear in mind repeat costs when you buy more test strips)

Forum members can offer plenty of help and support on all of these diets, testing, and type 2 management. Just ask.

Thank you for starting this. I'm fairly active on Twitter and said similar on there last night and redirected people to here - as I said this forum has literally saved my life.
 

PenfoldAPD

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,643
Type of diabetes
Type 2
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Diet only
An injection of positivity not negativity. In the past the results were indeed dire. Not now.
This programme has damaged some very good work accrued by some very positive people. Shame on them.

It could have easily taken a positive route. Maybe a programme made by a crew who have no experience of diabetes and just looking to take a sensationalised view?

The amputation scenes were awful.
 

JaneKennedy

Member
Messages
20
Thankyou ... I felt incredibly frustrated and tearful watching this programme last night. I felt it would be fear based and not give a balanced view of diabetes types. It was. My heart went out to all the persons filmed and the frustration I felt lingers on today. There are so many of us that are doing well reducing blood glucose through education and awareness on this wonderful forum.I think I will put in a complaint too
 

Tabbyjoolz

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Just watched Fat v Carbs on iPlayer. Jamie Owen's approach was like a breath of fresh air. If you need cheering up after last night's gruesome sensationalism, do watch this.
 

ickihun

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part of it is anyway that the doctors do not even tell them how low blood glucose ought to be even when diabetic and they don´t tell them how they can get their blood glucose down the FASTest way... every new diabetic ought be handed a cookbook of some diet choices with delicious pictures and told to live excactly like that the first month
Let's camp up at the hospitals/doctors or do an educational video on you.tube which we insist is played for new and old diagnosed diabetics after their hospital/ doctors appointments. My gp has an educational plasma screen about smoking etc. Replaying over and over again. Even a cheap power point presentation would be a start. Come on nhs. Do something positive and useful.
 

Freema

Expert
Messages
7,346
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Let's camp up at the hospitals/doctors or do an educational video on you.tube which we insist is played for new and old diagnosed diabetics after their hospital/ doctors appointments. My gp has an educational plasma screen about smoking etc. Replaying over and over again. Even a cheap power point presentation would be a start. Come on nhs. Do something positive and useful.

good idea, but I live in Denmark... but is should be possible for some diabetics to fabricate some delicious Cook-books with easy instructions and lots of good photoes of the foods...
also foods to the kind of people that hates to Cook...

I know that childrens books and Cook-books are the ones that the authors earn the most from in average here in Denmark... if someone has the talent to flick som 6-10 small easy Cook-books/pamflets together for the younger and younger new diabetics, I´m sure it could end up a giant success....and maybe also make a way of living for some diabetics.. maybe only food for 1 week in each book/pamflet just to get started when new and shocked.... maybe some fondings too would be possible as it would be a good deed too and help people not becomming so ill so soon...
 
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Tabbyjoolz

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557
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I am very tempted by the idea of making a spoof Panorama vid - The Silent Survivors - and posting it on YouTube. Am I evil?
 

Oldvatr

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It was quite clear from the opening bars that it was going to be a snuff movie. with extra gratuitous gore added in. Shameful. The concluding section where it was brazenly declared as fact - that bariatric surgery is th ONLY way to cure T2D, and that ALL T2's need to be given bariatric surgery is a load of cobblers.

Unfortunately this is not the first time we have seen that message in the media recently. There is a lobbying group pushing this point of view quite strongly, and it is so sad that the media is open to supporting it. Bad news sells more newspapers!

Unfortunately it seems that the other Diabetes group seem to support PHE (and were involved in that programme too) and are not open to alternative points of view either. Having tried to post on their forum, I found it to be quite closed to new ideas. All they want is for me to make donations cashwise, not thoughtwise. They are not lobbying in my name, so I do not support them.
 
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dbr10

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2,237
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Following last night's Panorama programme, I think we may get new forum members and readers, and I wanted to reassure them that being a Type 2 diabetic does NOT automatically lead to horrendous complications, amputations, misery, trauma and aggressive invasive surgery. There is a huge amount we can do to control the condition and reduce our chances of diabetic complications.

We have a whole thread of the most wonderful success stories to prove it.
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/low-carb-success-stories.3763/
it is currently running at 24 pages of posts from people who feel a darn sight better than those shown on Panorama!

As far as I can see, that programme was designed to shock and frighten, count the cost to the NHS and attempt to drive people into weight loss and surgery to save bankrupting the NHS.

Well, there are alternatives, and believe me when I say that they work amazingly well.

Type 2s can improve their health by
- lowering their blood glucose (diet, exercise, medication, fasting)
- careful use of medication (there is a whole range of meds from Meformin up to Insulin)
- monitoring their blood glucose on a daily basis, at home, allowing them to work out which foods are driving their blood glucose up, and teaching them how to reduce portions or avoid that food completely, in order to bring their blood glucose down to target.

Type 2s CAN change their eating habits and lead a much healthier and happier life - but it requires a change of diet and lifestyle. Personally, I would rather give up wheatabix and frosties and milk chocolate than lose my legs.

Here are a few links that may help:

This link explains in under a minute, the way to reduce carbs but still eat an enjoyable and satisfying diet.
https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/60-seconds
It is known as the LCHF way of eating

For people who want a more structured, gradual approach, there is a Low Carb Programme run by diabetes.co.uk which shows you how to lower your carb intake over a 10 week period and tailor you diet to suit you personally.
https://www.diabetes.co.uk/lowcarb/

Some people are finding that they can actually REVERSE their type 2 diabetes using Low Carbing or very low calorie diets such as the Newcastle Diet (800 calories a day for 8 weeks), because it reduces the fat in their liver, allowing it and the pancreas to function better, and produce enough insulin to control blood glucose again.
http://www.nhs.uk/news/2016/03March/Pages/Could-a-very-low-calorie-diet-cure-type-2-diabetes.aspx
you may also have heard of the 800 calorie Bloodsugar Diet. This is similar to the Newcastle Diet but uses real food instead of diet shakes
https://thebloodsugardiet.com/

Some people are finding that missing meals (known as Intermittent Fasting) is lowering blood glucose and insulin resistance and helping with weight loss.
You can find out more here:
https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/

Exercise can also be remarkably effective, but I haven't focussed on it, because many type 2s feel too drained and tired to exercise, until they get their blood glucose down to a good level. At that point, go for it! :)

ALL of the above are FREE

Monitoring your own blood glucose can be done at home, at a reasonable personal cost. It will tell you how well you are managing your type 2 diabetes, and give you very important information on what foods are driving it up. This is known as Eating To Your Meter, and is, in my opinion, the single most powerful tool in the type 2 toolbox. Most doctors refuse to supply type 2s with a blood glucose meter saying it isn't appropriate. The real reason is cost to the NHS. So many of us buy our own. There are many different meters, but many of us here on the forum go for the SD Codefree since you can get a pot of 50 test strips for about £7, which I consider a bargain. ( I won't include a link, because I don't want to look like I am promoting a particular brand, but shop around before you buy - there are some very expensive ones out there if you are not careful and you need to bear in mind repeat costs when you buy more test strips)

Forum members can offer plenty of help and support on all of these diets, testing, and type 2 management. Just ask.
Very helpful, informative post.
 

Etty

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367
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
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Diet only
This was a grim programme for us, but for the general public I think it was a useful wake-up call. I don't think people have the faintest idea just how serious this disease is . My fear is that the public is being softened up for the expense of a roll out of surgery. What we need is a roll out of LCHF information and support.
 
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DavidGrahamJones

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I posted this elsewhere because I hadn't seen this thread. Not sure if anyone has also mentioned these two contacts for the Panorama program.

eMail: [email protected]

Address: BBC Panorama, Zone D, 4th Floor, BBC Broadcasting House, Portland Place, London, UK, W1A 1AA
 
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Coudrier

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Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Thank you all for this forum and for all the valuable information you give on diabetes and diet. I was horrified when I watched the program, thank goodness I didnt see this program last year when I was diagnoised with pre diabetes I was already freaked out but thankfully I found your website and started a low carb diet . I have lost 20 kgs and my last blood test confirms that I am no longer considered pre diabetic. Again thank you
 

Jay-Marc

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218
Type of diabetes
Type 2
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Tablets (oral)
This was a grim programme for us, but for the general public I think it was a useful wake-up call. I don't think people have the faintest idea just how serious this disease is . My fear is that the public is being softened up for the expense of a roll out of surgery. What we need is a roll out of LCHF information and support.

NICEs headline: "Obese people with recently diagnosed type 2 diabetes should be assessed for weight loss surgery – it is good for patients and cost saving for the NHS."

The latter point might well be true in simple money terms. Uncomfortable about the former at least as the potentially the first resort as this seems to advocate. The assumption is that these people are going to be beyond treatment with diet - and medication - without trying.
 
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DavidGrahamJones

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I was assessed, but for me it was a box ticking exercise. There was no intention in looking into my weight problem unless I was assessed.

I was assessed by a psychiatrist and a dietician together and their conclusion was, bless them as I have it in writing, I don't have an eating problem, I have a weight problem. The only remark made about my diet was "You seem to eat a lot of fish". Twice a week is a lot?

Having got that out the way I was sort of hoping for an explanation of why I don't lose weight on a calorie restricted diet and in fact can gain. It all ended with "You don't eat enough" and "You have a broken metabolism" "Next". I'll find the answer eventually.
 

Jay-Marc

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Also true to be fair that for those under a BMI of 35 an assessment is only to be 'considered' and therefore may not be done at all in knowledge of specific individual circumstances.
 

DavidGrahamJones

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Having attended a Bariatric Surgery support group some years prior to the assessment, which was actually run by the dietician I mentioned earlier, I decided against it because at that time (procedure has now changed) they were liquidising chocolate and ice cream to get their calorie intake up to 1200 cals per day. At that time I was eating about 1500 cals a day, don't eat chocolate or ice cream so cutting out 300 was a doddle when I cut the carbs, in fact went down to about 900 cals per day.

Blowing my own trumpet, and everyone else who successfully cuts carbs, it takes some effort. Despite medical advice it hasn't caused me personally any problems, in fact feel quite good, usually. How do we, the enlightened diabetics (could we all be wrong?) encourage other diabetics who may not have access to computers, haven't bothered looking into what diabetes means or basically has never seen one of the forums, to at least look at what we're trying to say.
 
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Yvonnet

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41
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Im glad i watched the programme, although it was extreme it shows you what could happen and sometimes in life people need a short sharp shock to the dangers of what might be, i for 1 am glad it was like it was, if it helps some people to think hey i dont want to end up like that then thats good news cause they will hopefully make changes to their life.
 
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Oldvatr

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Im glad i watched the programme, although it was extreme it shows you what could happen and sometimes in life people need a short sharp shock to the dangers of what might be, i for 1 am glad it was like it was, if it helps some people to think hey i dont want to end up like that then thats good news cause they will hopefully make changes to their life.
I can only part agree with what you say here. What I find so sad about the program is that it only has one conclusion that they make, and that is that only surgery can cure T2D, and that they recommend that all T2's be given bariatric surgery to prolomg life with this self induced disease. I believe they are wrong to make this conclusion. They closed the door on any alternative therapies, and left viewers with no support path except hospital, So your suggestion that the average viewer can seek alternatives was not provided, and this left a totally negative thought progression in our minds. This is where the program was irresponsible.

I have no problem with a programme discussing diabetic complications and their consequencs, since this is an unforunate but well documented reality that can follow on from diagnosis. It is not new news. But I would prefer a grown up program like Panorama to be more forward looking. More carrot than stick. The way to reduce NHS costs is to empower the patients in their own treatment. and provide them with the knowledge and tools to do the job, rather than beat them about the head.

Again I think there is a small group of HCP's who have a vested interest in promoting surgery as the main antagonist in the fight, and we have already seen them flexing their muscles in the press last month,