VERY politically incorrect

[Synonym]

I have managed to get my BG levels right down without medication but have to admit I have done it only by using extreme measures. I am not ‘low carbing’ as such since I have a fair amount of carbohydrate from fruit and vegetables but I have cut out all the grains as they shoot my BG through the roof. I have done this with the full knowledge of the hospital dietician who was really helpful and supportive.

I do not think that this way of eating is sustainable long term and I am fairly certain that I will need to take some form of medication in the near future which may allow me to relax the ban on grains - and thereby allow me some ‘latitude’ in my food. :roll:

I would be glad to get my porridge back even though I enjoy what I eat at present and I would enjoy the opportunity to eat small portions of bread or potato. It will probably be a rocky road and I will obviously have to learn lots more new things.

I have just returned from holiday and it was a real nightmare to find food that I could eat while eating well and keeping my levels down. My husband is very good and understanding but to be honest it was a total pain trying to eat within my own self imposed boundaries and I felt it was an imposition on him.

I don’t think that there will ever be a time when I can relax about food even when I do have meds as both food and meds impact on BGs and that is just the way it is on this path called diabetes.

I have read so much on this forum about health problems and medication and it has just served to underline to me how different we all are and how varying are the solutions to our problems. Medication is there to help those whose bodies need it and it is not a sensible option to turn it down if it is necessary.

Perhaps this is what Hana is meaning by her question as we clearly need to accept medical help eventually so why fight it to the last gasp! :?:

 

[graham64]

I am curious to find out if the majority of T2 diabetics COULD manage without medication if they chose to.
What do people think?

Hi Hana, it's almost 2 years since my diagnosis still no medications, but that's only down to finding this forum and the advice I received here.
Unfortunately due the dietary advice given to T2s on diagnosis, many end up taking meds to cover the eat plenty of starchy carbs mantra, I'm sure with the right advice re testing and diet many could manage without medications.

Regards
Graham

 

[Dobbs]

Probably many type 2s, myself included, could manage their condition by diet alone in an ideal world, cooking all their meals for themselves. But that's not an option for me as I travel a lot and don't usually have the presence of mind to plan all my meals in advance.
I have concerns about medication, as many of us do, and prefer to take as little as possible, but I researched Metformin and find it very acceptable so I have no particular desire to wean myself off my two tablets a day.

 

[ally5555]

But graham - alot of the lc are on meds too so can you explain that!

I do not understand the logic of this thread unless it was to provoke an argument.

 

[catherinecherub]

I see this thread is being reported elsewhere by low carbers.. :lol: :lol:
Phrases like,
full time posters,
complication riddled, high meds,
obviously not working, (perhaps the inference here is spongers?) :wink:
posting dross and mis- information,
pompous plonkers,
wolves circling.

All this because there are opposing views. The chief instigator is a poster who was banned from here aided and abetted by people who rarely post now.

Perhaps now some of you who are new to the forum can see why there have been "Carb wars" here in the past because if you did not low carb then you were taken to task and villified. Some people were reluctant to post as their views were not acceptable to some low carbers. All the above phrases would have appeared in this thread.

This forum has moved on and everyone is entitled to their views without fear of written reprisals and the place is so much better for it.
Manage your condition how you like as long as it works for you and as long as you don't think your way is the only way and far superior to others then what is all the fuss about?

This debate certainly has provoked some replies and as long as it is civilised then there is no harm done.

 

[Dillinger]

This forum has moved on and everyone is entitled to their views without fear of written reprisals and the place is so much better for it.

Well except for Hana it would appear - who you seem to be attacking for all her potential 'thought crimes' in posting her question.

I would have thought the reason that there are less arguments on this site is because the type of responses that you so commonly give when you find a statement or posting that you don't agree with acts to extinguish discussion and an exchange of views; people who have a different view can't be bothered putting up with the constant sniping.

That is a real shame because the person in my opinion who is the most valuable to this site, Fergus, doesn't seem to post any more and that is a major loss to this place and to the many diabetics who come here looking for support.

What were you saying about "as long as you don't think your way is the only way and far superior to others then what is all the fuss about?" Maybe have a think about that when you re-read your posts to Hana.

Dillinger

 

[catherinecherub]

I see old habits die hard for you Dillinger. :roll:

There is nothing in my posts that I am ashamed of My opinions, (and that is what most posts are, opinions) are as valid as yours. I am of the OPINION that no diet for controlling diabetes is superior. How about you ?

I am surprised that Hana did not word her opening post differently .

Have things to do, places to go. I do not work through choice. I can afford not to and will post as and when I like.

 

[Debloubed]

this is ridiculous! Keep posts like this to the type 2, low carb area of the forum. Go without medication?! I should coco!! I'd be dead within a week or so! :shock: I totally respect everyone and anyone's right to low carb, Hana, if you like eating cheese for breakfast then you go for it my love! if it keeps your BG at the non-diabetic level you crave, then more power to you. But know this - people who have no choice but to use meds will react! For those defending Hana then good on you, but even you must see that is was a mis-placed area for such a discussion..

 

[suffolkboi61]

As with lovinglife, I am in the same boat (doing all the rowing mind you ) but NO I could not continue without my medication though it pains me to say that, as I would love to be none medication dependant.
But I have other medical issues that require the strict use of medication, I find it tedious and forget sometime to take my afternoon meds.
I know there are some T2's who do control their diabetes with none meds and hats of to them for doing it.

 

[hanadr]

Has it got to the point where a question can't be asked? :cry:
Not all T2s are offered the option of control by diet, whichever diet may do it for them. I certainly wasn't. It took me 5 years to get to the beginning of my current path.
Every now and again someone, who is probably very insulin resistant writes in explaining they need mega-doses of medication and, in contrast, we know there are several successful diet controllers here.
I know I CAN do it, though I haven't made that step permanent yet and I wondered if most of us can if we really put our minds to it. I wasn't criticising anyone who has made a different decision from mine. However, I still think that many could do it and save themselves the side effects of some of our medications.[ I don't get any from my Metformin and didn't from Day 1 ]
As to where to post this question. where else, but a discussion thread?
And on minimal Metformin, I cost about 5p per day, so going totally Med free, wouldn't save a lot for the NHS; less than £20 a year! U500 costs a lot more than that. :shock: . My strips I already pay for myself.
What is it in some people, which drives them to make every controversy into a personal attack?
There have been times when I've felt a bit antagonistic towards someone specific. I have controlled my behaviour and avoided rudeness or personal comments.
Yes I DO aim for non-diabetic levels of control. I have knownsome scary complications including a colleague dying after both feet were amputated. i can see no point in lesser control.

Hana

 

[lovinglife]

With all due respect Hana - you must have known the question you asked would open a can of worms - why else the title?

 

[Debloubed]

As to where to post this question. where else, but a discussion thread?

Hana

the reason I queried your decision to post it here Hana is because everyone views this area, old posters and new alike and when I see statements questioning if medication needs to be taken, I have to respond and say yes, it does! What else can I respond with?! What if a newly diagnosed type 1 were to read that and think they could cope without their meds? I don't disagree with what your are saying about low carbs as it works for you, and I honestly think that is great and if you can manage in the future with a strict low carb diet alone that that is fantastic! perhaps choose your post title and opening words more carefully? looking at the subsequent posts it is my belief that is what has caused such an emotional response.

 

[Giblet]

I have to say the way I read the thread Hana with the word "COULD" in capitals makes me feel like i'm failing somehow because I have to take medication. You may not have meant it that way but that's what I thought when I first read it. Perhaps that's why the debate has become so heated :?: It's a bit like asking if you feel superior because you can control your diabetes without medication? Perhaps I should open another thread...on the other hand another war on the verge of a general election probably isn't the best thing

 

[hanadr]

I specified T2 as being a no med possibility, so No T1 should be worried.
I also feel still that too many T2s are not given the option of lifesyle change and a medication free control.( yes I DO use minimal Metformin). I am aware that medical thought is that all newly diagnosed diabetics should be treated aggressively to get the numbers down ASAP. and are never given a chance to try any other way
However as a result of this discussion, I am reminded of a psychological study done on some children a number of years ago. Each child was left in a room with a marshmallow on aplate and told they could havee the sweet, but that if he/she could wait for the marshmallow until the researcher came back, they could have 2. Some children pounced on the marshmallow as soon as the researcher left the room and some waited and got the 2.
Hana

 

[Giblet]

Wow! time to leave the discussion before I get really wound up. I come here to help / be helped not to raise my blood pressure so I have to take yet more tablets! :shock:

 

[ally5555]

Hi

I dont think people are having a go at Hana - she has posted here alot but I can see why some reacted and maybe would have been better on the low carb site Hana

 

[jopar]

Hanna
What does that prove apart from that some children can fathom out consequences and others cannot sort of not relevant at the moment, how old were the children??

I’m still trying to fathom out what you are trying to achieve or even debate hanna!

On one hand, you are saying that you have a choice to manage your diabetes with a chosen diet, but chose to incorporate medication so that it enables you to cheat latitude... But for other T2’s who have little alternative than taking medication is some sort of failure in their ability to control... With the exception of others who follow your regime of control, and that you also deemed use their medication for cheating latitude purposes...

You then go on to suggest that there is a cost issues concerned, those that use medication for cheating latitude purposes, aren’t wasting money, but those that you deem are taking too much medication are being wasteful indeed costing loads of money that could be saved! Without any consideration for the individual or knowledge to what diet they follow and what medical aspects controls their personal required dosage is etc...

You then bring in the HCP with, they prevent diabetic’s alternatives, hummm, so to discuss an individual medication and weight issues, point in the direction of changing their current lifestyle into an healthier one, isn’t giving an alternative!!
Sadly what you are saying cannot be consider (as some have suggested elsewhere) fighting your corner or campaigning for the insistence of forcing all T2’s to follow a extreme low carb diet...

But actually one of mocking other T2’s, suggesting that medication means you are a failure unless of cause you only just using medication for cheating latitude purposes...

If you think and those who are defending you elsewhere is called promoting low carb you are sadly wrong, if you and your friends even considered that you are being picked on bullied along with your ideology think again, you started the thread not me or anybody else we just given a opinion on what you are saying..

Just to set the record straight, I couldn’t care a hoot, what diet or medication some-one choose to manage their diabetes only in helping them with information so that can choose..

 

[markd]

Seems rather a lot of negative commenst flying around here! I just took the question at face value - can people do without medication, rather than firing my imagination into overdrive seeking an implied locarb message.

Perhaps, in my case, it is because I've just been reading about disaster relief in Haiti and Chile - I wonder how high on the scale of importance it is getting oral diabetic drugs in survivors living in the tented cities, for instance.

Though Hana dis say 'chose' rather than 'had to'.

Insulin-dependent diabetics would be quite urgent, I'd assume, but oral-controlled? Dunno, might be OK (for various values of 'OK'') for some weeks.

Cards on the table time, I live by a reasonably low/medium carb lifestyle, but feel my levels are more controlled by weightloss and exercise rather than diet.

I no longer take any medication (originally on Metformin, then Glucobay) but that is really down to the weightloss I suspect.

I do wonder how many others have managed to get off drugs after substantial weightloss - in my case, over one third of my starting weight, with a BMI now below 25 for the first time in 20+ years.

Asking people about their degree of overweight or obesity - now that *REALLY* is politically incorrect... so I won't.

mark.

 

[catherinecherub]

Because I chose to contribute to this thread and voice my opinions, as every forum member has a right to do, I was accused of stifling debates :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
The poster who suggested this obviously has not really been paying attention to my posts. I have an opinion and I voice it. He or another has an opinion and they voice it. Other people join in and there are more opinions. It is called a debate. I also post lots of other things that do not require debate and I will continue to behave in this way. Whether I please or offend this particular low carber is not my problem but his. I think what he is trying to tell me is not to go against a low carber's opinion. :roll: :roll: Of course this is MHO.

 

[carty]

My take on this issue is that all of us have to decide for ourselves which way to manage our DB.We also have to be tolerant of others posts sometimes writing on the net doesnt come out as it would if we were speaking face to face.My own story is that I lost lots of weight went for blood test BGS 26 ! I was on a healthy diet good lifestyle but I had inherited DB.Although I have almost never taken pills I felt I haad no option but to go along with the meds, I have gone down to 7-8 with lowish carbs plus metformin sr .I hope maybe to lower the mets some time .Thanks to all posters no matter how they treat their DB.without this forum we would have no idea what DB is about. CAROL