Reverse Type 2 - a question

Energize

Well-Known Member
Messages
810
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Hi Sparrow

Well done for dropping your HbA1c and certainly it would seem you have good control. You don't say what medications or diet you are currently on. You mentioned that if you 'slip off diet or stop taking tablets' so that suggests to me that you are on some medication for your diabetes and also on a specific diet related to controlling your diabetes.

My interpretation of 'Reversed Type 2' would be when taking NO medication for diabetes, including Metformin, and able to eat a 'normal' diet, ie including some bread, potatoes, pasta, rice, pastry etc, without blood glucose levels raising more than a non-diabetics would. However, if any meds or diet is required to control blood glucose levels, to my mind, you would still be considered diabetic.

I think, but I could be wrong of course, that someone who has (probably lost a lot of weight) been able to come off all meds can then have a normal glucose tolerance test. For me, this is what I understand/feel is 'reversed' diabetes. The diabetes would 'return' if the diabetic gained sufficient weight to increase insulin resistance again and then have raised blood glucose levels.

I don't feel a diabetic can 'cure' their diabetes, even if glucose levels return to normal without meds/diet. I tend to think of it as being 'in remission', suggesting this state is potentially only temporary and could show itself again at some stage, or maybe not show itself ever again.

So, that's just my personal view. Hopefully, others will be able to correct me if I'm not correct in this view ;)
 

Bluetit1802

Legend
Messages
25,216
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
Treatment type
Diet only
I think you have more or less answered your own question when you say

I personally believe that I am still Diabetic. If I slip off my diet or stop taking my tablets I know that all the hard work will be wasted - the numbers will rise.

I agree with @Energize
 

chalup

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,745
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Other
I am proof positive that even if you have been declared non-diabetic by your doctor, if you fall back into old eating patterns it comes back. I do not believe it can be cured or reversed, only well controlled, but that is just my opinion.
 

bulkbiker

BANNED
Messages
19,576
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Would agree. I am well controlled without any meds but I still wouldn't eat a bowl of chips.. or even one. Maybe as I have no intention of slipping from my new way of eating (or sometimes not eating) then I might say I have reversed it but only for so long as I don't go back. I think controlled is a far better way to describe what I'v done so far. There are a few who seem to be able to eat lots of carbs with no ill effects but I'm pretty sure I'm not one of them ... yet.
 

Indy51

Expert
Messages
5,540
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
I definitely know I haven't reversed it despite having non-diabetic A1c readings for the past 4+ years. All I have to do is measure my BG after a meal with more than about 25-30g of carbs to know that my first phase insulin response is still shot. Better than it was when I was diagnosed, but definitely not a non-diabetic response.
 

LivingLoud

Active Member
Messages
37
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
Things I should
The whole "reverse" thing has been annoying the hell out of me. If you can eat a big plate of carbs, washed down with a coke and a large bags of M&Ms and still make a good blood score then I'd accepted "reversed". Otherwise we're talking "Controlled" or "In remission". Controlled without meds is the ultimate goal, and incredible achievement, controlled with meds is also awesome. The danger with the idea of "reversed" is giving people a false sense of cure + you set the bar at an unachievable level. Its just another example of the poor presentation of diabetes in the media.
Well done Sparrow456 great work.
 

4ratbags

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,334
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Amazingly there are some people out there who consider themselves reversed or cured but I consider controlled to be a better word. You can see where the confusion comes from though when we have books like Reverse Your Diabetes as while it is a great book the title gives the impression that it can be cured and Jason Fung considers his patients to be cured after a couple of HbA1c results in the non diabetic range so it is easy to see why some people get.confused with what term to use.
 

phil1966

Well-Known Member
Messages
661
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
I agree with what others have said - you're only cured or "reversed" if your insulin response is back to normal: low hba1c results, while desirable and commendable, don't indicate being cured if you're getting them by controlling what you eat
If someone can eat pizza, chocolate, etc and get a normal hba1c then they are "cured", otherwise they're controlled

My last 4 HbA1c results have been in the non-diabetic range but I can get double digit blood sugar readings by even a minor deviation from my tightly controlled diet (such as a small slice of white bread) so there's no way I would ever consider myself cured.

Keeping your blood sugar low will help reduce or eliminate the bad effects of diabetes, but IMO once you've got it, it's a lifelong companion for the vast majority of people
 

MikeTurin

Well-Known Member
Messages
564
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
I'm agreeing with everyone. I have my diabetes in control (I test fasting BG with strips and every three months I've the lab tests) and I can even eat an ice cream OR a pizza now and then, but I'm absolutely sure that if I return to the old habits I'll go out of range because I can see the spikes.
 

Brunneria

Guru
Retired Moderator
Messages
21,889
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Hi @Sparrow456

Well done on that brilliant turnaround! Great numbers. A great achievement.

I agree with all of the above, but with a couple of extra little comments.

There ARE people who reverse, and who CAN eat what they like with normal blood glucose numbers. They definitely exist. We have had them posting here, and I am always very impressed by their success. But they are still at risk of 'reversing the reversal' if they regain the weight they have lost, or go back to the diet/lifestyle they had before taking things in hand.

Also, this Reversal thing is a new game. It is new to doctors, nurses, and we diabetics. It promises hope, and sometimes it delivers, but there have not yet been enough (any?) long term studies to show whether these people STAY reversed, and for how long.

so yes, I agree with those above. Reversal is MARVELLOUS, but it wouldn't be wise for anyone to get complacent.
But then, we should all be taking care of ourselves and eating as healthily as possible, and considering our future bodies and future health, so really, reversed or not, a sensible long term low carb diet seems to be the way to go for T2s whether they have managed Reversal, or not.
 

VictorVillalobos

Active Member
Messages
36
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Other
@Brunneria

I could not agree more with what you have said. There are a few persons that seem to have recovered, having what looks like a normal glucose metabolism.

Yes, reversal is a new game for clinicians, researchers and patients. No one seems to know exactly what to expect and when to expect it. To keep improving, keep steady or worse? In any case, what to do today?

My little two cents have been to launch a diabetes remission registry. It is a systematic attempt to understand diabetes remission. If I am allowed, here is the link:
www.diabetesremission.org

We all have many questions about diabetes reversal and remission. Let's find the answers.
 

Terryrhino

Well-Known Member
Messages
231
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Excellent discussion and very informative I'm a month and a half into diagnosis of T2 and can't wait to see my hba1c reading in the beginning of January 1500mg metformin a day lchf diet and exercise lost a stone already and back to a 36" waist I'm determined to control reverse or be in remission of this new lifestyle I'm positive but miss the carbs so much
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sparrow456

kentish maid

Well-Known Member
Messages
109
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
people who tell me I don't need to test my blood
i was told I had reversed my diabetes I have never taken medication for it but my doctor said that all though ihad reversed it I was still a diabetic but my clinics could go to yearly.
 

Robbity

Expert
Messages
6,683
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
I believe that if we end up as a diabetic, then we have a predisposition to become one - given the wrong circumstances. And however well we manage our condition, if that trigger had already existed then it must still exist even if we can get ourselves back to an apparently reversed/normal situation. Unfortunately.

Robbity
 

kazswaite

Newbie
Messages
4
Why is it that when you ask for help regarding weight loss, the so called healthy eating plan has so many carbs. I want to reduce carbs not increase.
 

Indy51

Expert
Messages
5,540
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Hey maybe this could help you, it helped me.
Must be something dodgy about that website - McAfee says "no go".


Mod Edit: Link removed as it forwarded onto D. Destroyer
 
Last edited by a moderator:

yiannis

Member
Messages
7
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
I'm currently on the Newcastle diet attempting to reverse it. For me I'll consider it reversed if I can eat 2400 calories a day without spikes in glucose to the diabetic range. I expect to have to exercise in my gym as I work sat on my backside and I expect that a beer and takeaway will be an occasional treat rather than following my previous lifestyle. The "personal fat threshold" theory makes sense to me, so I'm hoping to find my pft and stay below it for life. I don't want my children to watch me die the same way I watched my great uncle and my mother die.
If it doesn't work at least I'll know I gave it my best shot .
 

walnut_face

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,748
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
@yiannis I too think the "PFT" makes sense, but having lost 25% of my weight, back to the weight I was in my late teens and twenties, I am beginning to think that for me it may be a lot lower than I can maintain, even if I can achieve it in the first place
 

yiannis

Member
Messages
7
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
agree getting there and being able to stay there may be too very different things.
 

chalup

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,745
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Other
For some the idea of a personal fat threshold may be true but for others I think the metabolism is just too broken for it to be that easy. Some people need medications and some maybe for life. I don't like the idea that if someone cannot beat this thing just by getting and staying below a certain, probably quite low, weight or BMI that there is potential for self blame and guilt there. It may not be possible for everyone.