If we do not treat the causes, we cannot achieve true remission

[VictorVillalobos]

Hi All,

I am writing this post as a motivation for others. I am not a poster example. I have multiple defects, but it might be inspiring for others. The previous people who wrote here their cases of diabetes remission were my inspiration.

I was diagnosed with diabetes in 2014 but did not admit it. Never admitted, never defeated, right? Boy I was wrong. In January 2016 I had the first crazy moment. After dinner, I had a big discussion. My blood glucose skyrocketed. As the food kept being digested, it kept going up. For the first time ever, I lost control of my body. That day I decided to change.

For the first three months, I followed a traditional ADA 2016 treatment. For your information, in 2016 the ADA drop their recommendation about a minimal amount of carbohidrate intake! In April 2016, I discovered the New Castle study. Being a researcher myself, could not believe I was not aware of it!. Being a patient, could not wait to do it. But who has done it? In diabetes.co.uk I found lots of people who have done it. MANY THANKS FOR POSTING YOUR EXPERIENCE.

May 2016 HbA1c=5.6. The doctor, who never saw me before, said " I have bad news. You are prediabetic", are you sure? "Yes, even though your HbA1c is normal, it is in the limit, but your OGTT is 141, you are prediabetic". Well doctor, I am then posdiabetic! He was completely puzzled. I was feeling so happy! I made it ! Soo wonderful news. For one month I felt all was gone. Maybe it all was a dream, a nighmare? Because people keep saying it is impossible to cure or reverse diabetes.

June 2016.The doctor sent me to the diabetologist for prediabetes treatment. I still felt ****** several days a month. The diabetologist said "You are fine, if you are diabetic you are under control". Well, no, this is because I am doing 16 hours of fasting, following a low calorie, low carb diet, and kicking my ass with as much exercise as I can do. Could you help me? "Sorry, the insurance rules do not allow me to do anything for someone with HbA1c under 6.5, I think your case is more of a research question". So the system only helps if I reach the bottom? I was desperated.

I did my research to reverse type 2. What is needed to achieve remission? Scientifically, we know at least 13 different physiological reasons for having high blood glucose. It is likely that any person has not one, but a combination of them: muscle insulin resistance, liver insulin resistance, abnormal glucagon production, abnormal kidney glucose reabsorption, accelerate dumping of food in the intestine, interactions with microbiota, metabolic inflexibility in the beta-cells and many more.

The following months were still a pain in the ass, lots of experimentation: buchinger fasting, 16 hours fasting, HIIT, swimming, warm bottles in the liver, teas, sauna, intestine massage, probiotics, vegan diet. Salmon diet. Bike desk. Premeal of 10g of protein. Mediterranean diet. Measuring my glucose more than 40 times a day. Reading like crazy. I got a CGM or flash glucose monitor. Overall, I never did anything risky. I only have one body, cannot afford to damage it.

I have to confess that some days, I felt defeated. My BMI was reaching starvation levels. Gaining weight implied eating more carbs, more calories -> high blood glucose. I could not see a way out. Under a tree, in front of a lake, I sat down and cry for an hour.

Then I met a bunch of great type 1 diabetes guys. Boy, they really have a challenge. Yet they sail around the world, run marathons, large companies. They enjoy life and have energy to make this world a better place. After talking to them, reversal of type 2 seemed like a little problem. And we know it is not that little. But if they can manage it, we, those with type 2, should at least try to reverse it!

By luck and effort, I was able to go to the european congress on diabetes in Munich. I have the pleasure of meeting great reseachers, like Dr Roy Taylor. That strenghten my motivation and knowledge.

All of this helped me to identify or rule out the causes of my high blood glucose after eating. Thanks god, I finally found an alopathic/naturophatic doctor willing to help. With her help, I am nailing down the remaining physiological problems towards true remission.

2016/11 HbA1c=5.6. Now I really feel better! But still way to go. It will not beat me!


Why we do not have a protocol for diabetes remission yet?

The sad truth is that the current medical guidelines in most countries have an incorrect perspective of the disease. "You have fever. You are sick of fever. I will give you something to bring down your fever". Well, no, high blood glucose is just a symptom. We need to treat the cause of the problem, not the symptom.

If we could focus on fixing those problems, most of us could achieve remission.

Thanks to this community I was able to identify a path towards remission. But we need more and better guidance.

As a researcher, I see the big gap that exists between clinical practice and research. Between life and writing scientific papers. I have vowed to work to close that gap. In the name of those that are gone, like my cousin Meche. For you who are in remission but want to maintain it forever. For you, who want to reach remission.

To have hope is a human right. And hope of diabetes remission is scientifically justified.

Will keep posting in the next days.

Best, V

FYI: the european association diabetes congress (EASD 2016) is available for free, online. They made that effort, so people could benefit. You should browse the presentations, most of them are just superb! And you might be able to hear Dr Roy Taylor asking questions to the presenters, still looking for answers. That man and his whole team, so humble, have done so much for us.

 

[Roytaylorjasonfunglover]

Goddam inspiring story man, may your further journey be blessed.

Just have some questions.

What is your current bmi, and what was it when diagnosed?

Were you able to talk with Roy Taylor about diabetes?

I belive it is possible to be cured from diabetes, meaning you can eat anything you want as long as you stay under your personal fat threshold, and this may be very low for some people, what is your opinion on this?

What do you think about physological insulin restiance on the lowcarb diet?

 

[Shaydollar811]

Hi All,

I am writing this post as a motivation for others. I am not a poster example. I have multiple defects, but it might be inspiring for others. The previous people who wrote here their cases of diabetes remission were my inspiration.

I was diagnosed with diabetes in 2014 but did not admit it. Never admitted, never defeated, right? Boy I was wrong. In January 2016 I had the first crazy moment. After dinner, I had a big discussion. My blood glucose skyrocketed. As the food kept being digested, it kept going up. For the first time ever, I lost control of my body. That day I decided to change.

For the first three months, I followed a traditional ADA 2016 treatment. For your information, in 2016 the ADA drop their recommendation about a minimal amount of carbohidrate intake! In April 2016, I discovered the New Castle study. Being a researcher myself, could not believe I was not aware of it!. Being a patient, could not wait to do it. But who has done it? In diabetes.co.uk I found lots of people who have done it. MANY THANKS FOR POSTING YOUR EXPERIENCE.

May 2016 HbA1c=5.6. The doctor, who never saw me before, said " I have bad news. You are prediabetic", are you sure? "Yes, even though your HbA1c is normal, it is in the limit, but your OGTT is 141, you are prediabetic". Well doctor, I am then posdiabetic! He was completely puzzled. I was feeling so happy! I made it ! Soo wonderful news. For one month I felt all was gone. Maybe it all was a dream, a nighmare? Because people keep saying it is impossible to cure or reverse diabetes.

June 2016.The doctor sent me to the diabetologist for prediabetes treatment. I still felt ****** several days a month. The diabetologist said "You are fine, if you are diabetic you are under control". Well, no, this is because I am doing 16 hours of fasting, following a low calorie, low carb diet, and kicking my ass with as much exercise as I can do. Could you help me? "Sorry, the insurance rules do not allow me to do anything for someone with HbA1c under 6.5, I think your case is more of a research question". So the system only helps if I reach the bottom? I was desperated.

I did my research to reverse type 2. What is needed to achieve remission? Scientifically, we know at least 13 different physiological reasons for having high blood glucose. It is likely that any person has not one, but a combination of them: muscle insulin resistance, liver insulin resistance, abnormal glucagon production, abnormal kidney glucose reabsorption, accelerate dumping of food in the intestine, interactions with microbiota, metabolic inflexibility in the beta-cells and many more.

The following months were still a pain in the ass, lots of experimentation: buchinger fasting, 16 hours fasting, HIIT, swimming, warm bottles in the liver, teas, sauna, intestine massage, probiotics, vegan diet. Salmon diet. Bike desk. Premeal of 10g of protein. Mediterranean diet. Measuring my glucose more than 40 times a day. Reading like crazy. I got a CGM or flash glucose monitor. Overall, I never did anything risky. I only have one body, cannot afford to damage it.

I have to confess that some days, I felt defeated. My BMI was reaching starvation levels. Gaining weight implied eating more carbs, more calories -> high blood glucose. I could not see a way out. Under a tree, in front of a lake, I sat down and cry for an hour.

Then I met a bunch of great type 1 diabetes guys. Boy, they really have a challenge. Yet they sail around the world, run marathons, large companies. They enjoy life and have energy to make this world a better place. After talking to them, reversal of type 2 seemed like a little problem. And we know it is not that little. But if they can manage it, we, those with type 2, should at least try to reverse it!

By luck and effort, I was able to go to the european congress on diabetes in Munich. I have the pleasure of meeting great reseachers, like Dr Roy Taylor. That strenghten my motivation and knowledge.

All of this helped me to identify or rule out the causes of my high blood glucose after eating. Thanks god, I finally found an alopathic/naturophatic doctor willing to help. With her help, I am nailing down the remaining physiological problems towards true remission.

2016/11 HbA1c=5.6. Now I really feel better! But still way to go. It will not beat me!


Why we do not have a protocol for diabetes remission yet?

The sad truth is that the current medical guidelines in most countries have an incorrect perspective of the disease. "You have fever. You are sick of fever. I will give you something to bring down your fever". Well, no, high blood glucose is just a symptom. We need to treat the cause of the problem, not the symptom.

If we could focus on fixing those problems, most of us could achieve remission.

Thanks to this community I was able to identify a path towards remission. But we need more and better guidance.

As a researcher, I see the big gap that exists between clinical practice and research. Between life and writing scientific papers. I have vowed to work to close that gap. In the name of those that are gone, like my cousin Meche. For you who are in remission but want to maintain it forever. For you, who want to reach remission.

To have hope is a human right. And hope of diabetes remission is scientifically justified.

Will keep posting in the next days.

Best, V

FYI: the european association diabetes congress (EASD 2016) is available for free, online. The made that effort, so people could benefit. You should browse the presentations, most of them are just superb! And you might be able to hear Dr Roy Taylor asking questions to the presenters, still looking for answers. That man and his whole team, so humble, have done so much for us.

Thank uhh ou for giving me hope V

 

[Hiitsme]

@VictorVillalobos
How can we find out which of the possible causes are the ones that caused ours? I read Prof Taylor's research soon after diagnosis so for me I assumed (no proof) that it was probably fat round the liver and pancreas. BMI was just within normal (according to GP) so I went about trying to lose weight. I couldn't get medical support to do the Newcastle Diet so just ate 500 calories less than I was burning as well as restricting carbs that my body couldn't cope with. I still don't know what the cause was for me but losing weight helped.

 

[VictorVillalobos]

BMI when healthy: 22. When Dx: 23. When fighting, down to 18.X Thanks to doctor: coming back to 20.
My fenotype is not the typical caucasian. I am mexican.

 

[Shaydollar811]

Hiitsme: How can we find out which of the possible causes are the ones that caused ours?

In a perfect world, I would have a continuous blood meter for glucose, lipids, insulin, glucagon, GLP-1...
Then we can test which organ, tissue or cells are not working properly.

How? by doing specific exercises, eating specific mixtures. Then, through a randomized trial of N=1, testing different solutions, we would decipher it.

In today´s world, whatever could come close to that will help. Basically, we are trying to solve a multidimensional problem in one dimension: blood glucose.

I keep researching how to solve it with today´s limitations. In the past, researchers have been able to solve this kind of challenge. So it might be feasible for diabetes remission.

Thank u.

 

[kokhongw]

All these while researchers have been thinking of impair beta cells function and muscular insulin resistance...

But this FGF1 protein research seems to suggest a totally different scenario...that our dysfunction and impairment could be in the neural networks for insulin signalling...no exercise or diet change was required.

We report that a single intracerebroventricular injection of FGF1 at a dose one-tenth of that needed for antidiabetic efficacy following peripheral injection induces sustained diabetes remission in both mouse and rat models of T2D. This antidiabetic effect is not secondary to weight loss, does not increase the risk of hypoglycemia, and involves a novel and incompletely understood mechanism for increasing glucose clearance from the bloodstream. We conclude that the brain has an inherent potential to induce diabetes remission and that brain FGF receptors are potential pharmacological targets for achieving this goal.

http://www.nature.com/nm/journal/v22/n7/full/nm.4101.html

And this

 

[Roytaylorjasonfunglover]

BMI when healthy: 22. When Dx: 23. When fighting, down to 18.X Thanks to doctor: coming back to 20.
My fenotype is not the typical caucasian. I am mexican.

Thanks for your numbers, it is so important that you share these.

 

[Roytaylorjasonfunglover]

All these while researchers have been thinking of impair beta cells function and muscular insulin resistance...

But this FGF1 protein research seems to suggest a totally different scenario...that our dysfunction and impairment could be in the neural networks for insulin signalling...no exercise or diet change was required.



http://www.nature.com/nm/journal/v22/n7/full/nm.4101.html

And this

Wow, this is so interesting. Seen some research that have confirmed this, but weight must surely be important as well?

 

[kokhongw]

Wow, this is so interesting. Seen some research that have confirmed this, but weight must surely be important as well?

My view is that weight/fats is protective. Our fats store is a safety mechanism to handle excess glucose/triglycerides. But all of us have a different threshold. Think of Fukushima radiation leak. They are building storage facilities as fast as they can to control the radioactive water...but will reach a point where they cannot contain it...that's probably how it is for us. We run out of fat stores or the other parts/systems starts failing...that's when all kinds of disease starts appearing...

Healthy weightloss is actually the signs of health metabolism that draws from the body fats storage. But it happens AFTER a sustained diet/lifestyle change AND normalization of insulin/glucose levels.

So while FGF1 injection to the brain may restore insulin action, it will likely not repair exhausted pancreatic beta cells. It buys time by making the functional pancreatic beta cells and its insulin more effective.

 

[ickihun]

Hi All,

I am writing this post as a motivation for others. I am not a poster example. I have multiple defects, but it might be inspiring for others. The previous people who wrote here their cases of diabetes remission were my inspiration.

I was diagnosed with diabetes in 2014 but did not admit it. Never admitted, never defeated, right? Boy I was wrong. In January 2016 I had the first crazy moment. After dinner, I had a big discussion. My blood glucose skyrocketed. As the food kept being digested, it kept going up. For the first time ever, I lost control of my body. That day I decided to change.

For the first three months, I followed a traditional ADA 2016 treatment. For your information, in 2016 the ADA drop their recommendation about a minimal amount of carbohidrate intake! In April 2016, I discovered the New Castle study. Being a researcher myself, could not believe I was not aware of it!. Being a patient, could not wait to do it. But who has done it? In diabetes.co.uk I found lots of people who have done it. MANY THANKS FOR POSTING YOUR EXPERIENCE.

May 2016 HbA1c=5.6. The doctor, who never saw me before, said " I have bad news. You are prediabetic", are you sure? "Yes, even though your HbA1c is normal, it is in the limit, but your OGTT is 141, you are prediabetic". Well doctor, I am then posdiabetic! He was completely puzzled. I was feeling so happy! I made it ! Soo wonderful news. For one month I felt all was gone. Maybe it all was a dream, a nighmare? Because people keep saying it is impossible to cure or reverse diabetes.

June 2016.The doctor sent me to the diabetologist for prediabetes treatment. I still felt ****** several days a month. The diabetologist said "You are fine, if you are diabetic you are under control". Well, no, this is because I am doing 16 hours of fasting, following a low calorie, low carb diet, and kicking my ass with as much exercise as I can do. Could you help me? "Sorry, the insurance rules do not allow me to do anything for someone with HbA1c under 6.5, I think your case is more of a research question". So the system only helps if I reach the bottom? I was desperated.

I did my research to reverse type 2. What is needed to achieve remission? Scientifically, we know at least 13 different physiological reasons for having high blood glucose. It is likely that any person has not one, but a combination of them: muscle insulin resistance, liver insulin resistance, abnormal glucagon production, abnormal kidney glucose reabsorption, accelerate dumping of food in the intestine, interactions with microbiota, metabolic inflexibility in the beta-cells and many more.

The following months were still a pain in the ass, lots of experimentation: buchinger fasting, 16 hours fasting, HIIT, swimming, warm bottles in the liver, teas, sauna, intestine massage, probiotics, vegan diet. Salmon diet. Bike desk. Premeal of 10g of protein. Mediterranean diet. Measuring my glucose more than 40 times a day. Reading like crazy. I got a CGM or flash glucose monitor. Overall, I never did anything risky. I only have one body, cannot afford to damage it.

I have to confess that some days, I felt defeated. My BMI was reaching starvation levels. Gaining weight implied eating more carbs, more calories -> high blood glucose. I could not see a way out. Under a tree, in front of a lake, I sat down and cry for an hour.

Then I met a bunch of great type 1 diabetes guys. Boy, they really have a challenge. Yet they sail around the world, run marathons, large companies. They enjoy life and have energy to make this world a better place. After talking to them, reversal of type 2 seemed like a little problem. And we know it is not that little. But if they can manage it, we, those with type 2, should at least try to reverse it!

By luck and effort, I was able to go to the european congress on diabetes in Munich. I have the pleasure of meeting great reseachers, like Dr Roy Taylor. That strenghten my motivation and knowledge.

All of this helped me to identify or rule out the causes of my high blood glucose after eating. Thanks god, I finally found an alopathic/naturophatic doctor willing to help. With her help, I am nailing down the remaining physiological problems towards true remission.

2016/11 HbA1c=5.6. Now I really feel better! But still way to go. It will not beat me!


Why we do not have a protocol for diabetes remission yet?

The sad truth is that the current medical guidelines in most countries have an incorrect perspective of the disease. "You have fever. You are sick of fever. I will give you something to bring down your fever". Well, no, high blood glucose is just a symptom. We need to treat the cause of the problem, not the symptom.

If we could focus on fixing those problems, most of us could achieve remission.

Thanks to this community I was able to identify a path towards remission. But we need more and better guidance.

As a researcher, I see the big gap that exists between clinical practice and research. Between life and writing scientific papers. I have vowed to work to close that gap. In the name of those that are gone, like my cousin Meche. For you who are in remission but want to maintain it forever. For you, who want to reach remission.

To have hope is a human right. And hope of diabetes remission is scientifically justified.

Will keep posting in the next days.

Best, V

FYI: the european association diabetes congress (EASD 2016) is available for free, online. They made that effort, so people could benefit. You should browse the presentations, most of them are just superb! And you might be able to hear Dr Roy Taylor asking questions to the presenters, still looking for answers. That man and his whole team, so humble, have done so much for us.

Thank you too!
Keep posting, your inspiration and keen willingness to educate is definitely helping with my depression.

 

[VictorVillalobos]

So, several peole said they are already in remission, but doubt that is the end of the game.

So, what about making a remission game? Your opinion is greatly appreciated.

I am also in remission, and doing research on this subject. If you have achieved HbA1c that for normal doctors looks like you are not anymore diabetic, then you are eligible to go to the next level, like a game.

Ready?

First level. to achieve HbA1c under 6.0. Cleared !

Second level. Your task is to show that your body is again able to clear 70g of glucose in two hours (a 2h OGTT). See the bottom for details.
Can you do it outside of the diabetic range after 2hours? GREAT !

Third level. Show that your body is able to pass the 2h OGTT outside of the prediabetic range. Can you do it? GREAT !

Fourth level. Show that your body is able to graph a 2h OGTT curve similar in cusp and form to a normal person. That likely means you have now recovered first phase insulin secretion to a great degree. Can you do it ! GREAT !
...and more levels unlocked after you achieve these ones !

Your tools:
Diet, low carb, slow carb, nice fats
Fasting: 12h, 16, 24h intermittent, 7 day fast. Buchinger method is in my opinion one of the best.
Exercise: walking, high intensity interval training, jogging, weight lifting, etc.
Resting: 6-9 hours nice sleep
Glucometer, CGM, etc.
Drugs: we are here for the long run. If you need to use drugs to heal your body use them! who cares that now you are not "in remission". For a suggested pharmacological protocol give to your physician this reference.

1.
DeFronzo RA. From the Triumvirate to the Ominous Octet: A New Paradigm for the Treatment of Type 2 Diabetes Mellitus. Diabetes. 2009 Apr;58(4):773–95.


Hope you find it amusing. but I am serious as well.

 

[kokhongw]

1.
DeFronzo RA. From the Triumvirate to the Ominous Octet: A New Paradigm for the Treatment of Type 2 Diabetes Mellitus. Diabetes. 2009 Apr;58(4):773–95.

http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/58/4/773

In summary, our findings (40–42) demonstrate that, at the stage of IGT, individuals have lost over 80% of their β-cell function, while the results of Butler et al. (47) suggest that subjects with “pre-diabetes” have lost approximately half of their β-cell volume.

Many have greatly underestimated the severity of our condition...

Another sobering observation in the paper...

Since neither the sulfonylureas nor metformin exerts any effect to preserve Beta-cell function(see previous discussion and Fig.16), the 20%of beta-cell function that was present at the time of diagnosis of diabetes(40–42) will largely have been lost by the time that combined sulfonylurea/metformin therapy has failed, and the majority of these patients will require insulin treatment.

This is a very good and comprehensive paper. Thank you.

 

[Indy51]

The guy seems stuck in the medication paradigm, which is not something I'm interested in doing unless absolutely necessary.

"A treatment paradigm shift is recommended in which combination therapy is initiated with diet/exercise, metformin (which improves insulin sensitivity and has antiatherogenic effects), a thiazolidinedione (TZD) (which improves insulin sensitivity, preserves β-cell function, and exerts antiatherogenic effects), and exenatide (which preserves β-cell function and promotes weight loss)."

I already know I can't handle 70g of carbs in one sitting, so won't bother with DIY OGTT's.

 

[kokhongw]

The guy seems stuck in the medication paradigm, which is not something I'm interested in doing unless absolutely necessary.

Still the paper is filled with useful information and where I see the term weightloss...I mentally replace that with ketosis/carbs lite/fasting/coconut oil ...and I see much sense and logic in his proposed approach of preserving beta cells function for T2D.

And if and when I need to, I now know which medication options I would prefer...

 

[VictorVillalobos]

Still the paper is filled with useful information and where I see the term weightloss...I mentally replace that with ketosis/carbs lite/fasting/coconut oil ...and I see much sense and logic in his proposed approach of preserving beta cells function for T2D.

And if and when I need to, I now know which medication options I would prefer...

Guys, I also like low carb, but note that fasting has other very nice effects !
Fasting promotes hormonal changes
Experimentally, fasting was able to trigger the production of new neurons
Experimentally, fasting seem to have triggered the reproduction of beta cells.
A researcher even tried - and succeed- to patent that !

So, keep using low-carb but if you have some pounds to lose, better do a bit of fasting than a slow weight loss.

 

[VictorVillalobos]

The guy seems stuck in the medication paradigm, which is not something I'm interested in doing unless absolutely necessary.

"A treatment paradigm shift is recommended in which combination therapy is initiated with diet/exercise, metformin (which improves insulin sensitivity and has antiatherogenic effects), a thiazolidinedione (TZD) (which improves insulin sensitivity, preserves β-cell function, and exerts antiatherogenic effects), and exenatide (which preserves β-cell function and promotes weight loss)."

I already know I can't handle 70g of carbs in one sitting, so won't bother with DIY OGTT's.

I believe that, we should aim to rewrite that paper, replacing drug solutions, with non-drug solutions, what do you think?

 

[Indy51]

Still the paper is filled with useful information and where I see the term weightloss...I mentally replace that with ketosis/carbs lite/fasting/coconut oil ...and I see much sense and logic in his proposed approach of preserving beta cells function for T2D.

And if and when I need to, I now know which medication options I would prefer...

Please do a lot more reading about the dangers of TZD drugs before getting a prescription for them. They don't seem to preserve beta function at all - and have dangerous side effects:

http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/18554346.php

I get very nervous about doctors who are so gung ho about a particular class of drug - in one of the videos I saw of this doctor, the talk seemed more like drug advertisement than anything else.

 

[kokhongw]

Please do a lot more reading about the dangers of TZD drugs before getting a prescription for them. They don't seem to preserve beta function at all - and have dangerous side effects:

http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/18554346.php

I get very nervous about doctors who are so gung ho about a particular class of drug - in one of the videos I saw of this doctor, the talk seemed more like drug advertisement than anything else.

Looks like I need to stay on my current straight and narrow path...

 

[VictorVillalobos]

Looks like I need to stay on my current straight and narrow path...

As for hope. @kokhongw. I saw your signature changing.
T1 people told me that one can increase so much insulin sensitivity that some of them ended up using only 10% of the standards insulin dose per day. So even if we have 15% of beta and alpha cell function, we can still make it ! ! !