Low Carb v calories

[chrismk]

Hi All - firstly, many thanks to everyone for the advice and support over the years - it's a great job we all do! I'm TII diagnosed 10 years ago with metformin blocking B12 absorption so I resolved in April this year to go on the LCHF diet. This has worked really well - lost weight, halved medication, etc. But I then plateaued in terms of losing weight so I decided to get a fitness meter and monitor what was going on. I can input calories into its app and that gets "matched" with exercise. However, it seems to me that the high fat of the LCHF diet is pushing calories up and it leads me to ask whether there is any correlation between the LCHF diet and calorie counting or is it not possible? Should one make allowances for the extra calories and, if so, how much? Any help much appreciated!

 

[SWUSA_]

Yes, although I am on moderate fat, moderate carbs-I think you need to count both carbs and calories if you have extra weight to lose. I am currently (this week) using chron-o-meter. There are free versions and enhanced versions of chron-o-meter. On both versions you can input your information and it will tell what calorie goal and % fat goals you should aim for based on your preferred diet and weight goals. LCHF is called keotogenic on their drop down menu menu for diet choices. The calorie goals are right in line with what works for me-other programs have suggested I eat way more calories than my body can take without gaining weight. You also input your activity levels to reach your Basal Metabolic Rate ( BMR). Mine is currently 1478 calories per day. I am eating a little below that level and just had a 5 pound weight loss today when I weighed. I think it will reduce my daily calorie goal when I input it-I have not yet. I am currently at 40% fat but many others here are at higher levels than that. I hope that helps you. Also 1 gram of fat is 9 calories, 1 gram of carbohydrate is 4 calories, and 1 gram of protein is 4 calories.

I just updated my weight and it changed my BMR to 1456 calories per day.

 

[Bluetit1802]

I lost all my excess weight very easily and without a plateau, but I counted carbs and calories and recorded everything. I was very strict on both, weighing or measuring everything initially until I could judge for myself. Once my weight came off I had to increase my calories (but not my carbs) to prevent further weight loss. I eventually found a balance and have maintained for 2 years. I haven't counted calories or carbs for ages now. I just use my meter, my scales, my eyes and my common sense. This has worked for me. I have been lucky, but it was hard work at first.

 

[Brunneria]

This is an interesting question that comes up quite regularly, and it seems (I expect you will get a broad spectrum of personal experiences in the responses) that people vary a great deal in what works for them.

Me? I have lost weight then plateaued on depressingly low calorie diets.
And I have lost weight gradually on LCHF while eating a surprising (to me) amount of fat - followed by a plateau.

Not everyone loses weight on LCHF, though it would appear that the ones who find it most difficult tend to be women with various hormone issues going on.

My preference is, and always will be, blood glucose control over weight loss.

 

[Stuart7152]

People who believe that weight loss can only come about with a calorie deficit are making a number of incorrect assumptions about thermodynamics and the calorie theory. To go into just one of the errors here, by wrongly interpreting the first law of thermodynamics and therefore wrongly ignoring the second law, it is concluded that “a calorie is a calorie”.

As regards the second aspect of entropy in a human – energy used up in making useable energy – Eric Jequier, who works in the Institute of Physiology, University of Lausanne, Switzerland found that the thermic effect of nutrients (thermogenesis) is approximately 6-8% for carbohydrate, 2-3% for fat and 25-30% for protein.http://www.zoeharcombe.com/2012/05/...t-is-the-official-advice-for-diabetics/#_edn1 I.e. approximately 6-8% of the calories consumed in the form of carbohydrate are used up in digesting the carbohydrate and turning it into fuel available to be used by the body. In contrast, 25-30% of the calories consumed in the form of protein are used up in digesting the protein and turning it into fuel available to be used by the body. This also makes intuitive sense; carbohydrates are relatively easy for the body to turn into energy (indeed they start being digested, and turned into glucose, with salivary enzymes, as soon as we start chewing). Protein needs to be broken down into amino acids, which is a far more complex process.

In lay terms is that protein can have a substantial ‘calorie advantage’ over carbs, simply because the body uses up far more calories in making protein available to the body as energy than it does in making carbs available as energy.

Fat/protein can be used for Basal Metabolic Rate (BMR) needs. Carbs can’t – they can only be used for energy. Hence we can virtually eat our BMR calories ‘for free’ – the body can use fat/protein/vitamins and minerals for everything from cell repair to building bone density to fighting infection. The body can only use carbs for energy. So we can eat 1,200 calories of carbs (thinking that we will lose weight) and, in fact, we will need to exercise to ‘burn up’ these calories. They are pretty useless to the body for any of its BMR needs. This is one of many reasons as to why calorie counters can apparently eat so little and still not lose weight and why the UK, as a whole, is overfed and undernourished – fat and sick.

 

[douglas99]

People who believe that weight loss can only come about with a calorie deficit are making a number of incorrect assumptions about thermodynamics and the calorie theory. To go into just one of the errors here, by wrongly interpreting the first law of thermodynamics and therefore wrongly ignoring the second law, it is concluded that “a calorie is a calorie”.

As regards the second aspect of entropy in a human – energy used up in making useable energy – Eric Jequier, who works in the Institute of Physiology, University of Lausanne, Switzerland found that the thermic effect of nutrients (thermogenesis) is approximately 6-8% for carbohydrate, 2-3% for fat and 25-30% for protein.http://www.zoeharcombe.com/2012/05/...t-is-the-official-advice-for-diabetics/#_edn1 I.e. approximately 6-8% of the calories consumed in the form of carbohydrate are used up in digesting the carbohydrate and turning it into fuel available to be used by the body. In contrast, 25-30% of the calories consumed in the form of protein are used up in digesting the protein and turning it into fuel available to be used by the body. This also makes intuitive sense; carbohydrates are relatively easy for the body to turn into energy (indeed they start being digested, and turned into glucose, with salivary enzymes, as soon as we start chewing). Protein needs to be broken down into amino acids, which is a far more complex process.

In lay terms is that protein can have a substantial ‘calorie advantage’ over carbs, simply because the body uses up far more calories in making protein available to the body as energy than it does in making carbs available as energy.

Fat/protein can be used for Basal Metabolic Rate (BMR) needs. Carbs can’t – they can only be used for energy. Hence we can virtually eat our BMR calories ‘for free’ – the body can use fat/protein/vitamins and minerals for everything from cell repair to building bone density to fighting infection. The body can only use carbs for energy. So we can eat 1,200 calories of carbs (thinking that we will lose weight) and, in fact, we will need to exercise to ‘burn up’ these calories. They are pretty useless to the body for any of its BMR needs. This is one of many reasons as to why calorie counters can apparently eat so little and still not lose weight and why the UK, as a whole, is overfed and undernourished – fat and sick.

My body seems to be happy to use anything I stuff into it.

Too much, and it will happily lay it on as fat.
And if I go for a mostly carb 800 calorie Newcastle diet, it'll use it for BMR needs without a problem, then use the previously stored fat.

 

[Resurgam]

When I eat low carb I can eat far more than when on a calorie controlled diet - so much that I have never counted calories. I suspect that eating a low calorie diet switches on all the genetic protection Humans have accrued over the millions of years of surviving without means of storing food.
Eating meat switches off those strategies, and we go into the 'whoopee they killed a mammoth' mode, after a week or so -

 

[douglas99]

When I eat low carb I can eat far more than when on a calorie controlled diet - so much that I have never counted calories. I suspect that eating a low calorie diet switches on all the genetic protection Humans have accrued over the millions of years of surviving without means of storing food.
Eating meat switches off those strategies, and we go into the 'whoopee they killed a mammoth' mode, after a week or so -

Nope, never had any problem, I suspect it's a myth to be honest.
(or maybe it happens to a very unlucky few, mankind always dealt with 'feast and famine', we evolved to it)

 

[Bluetit1802]

Our bodies evolve and adapt to what we have and what we need to survive. We used to have tails and a lot of body hair. We are slowly losing our little fingers. Who knows how our insides have evolved.

 

[MikeTurin]

People who believe that weight loss can only come about with a calorie deficit are making a number of incorrect assumptions about thermodynamics and the calorie theory.

Unfortunately the other problem is that measuring calories on the foods, the energy spent on activities and the basal metabolic rate are quite difficult to measure easily, one has to rely on ballpark numbers.


An error of 200 calories a day is easy to account especally on packaged foods, is 20 ml of oil. It could translate in 5 kg in a year of weight change

 

[Sid Bonkers]

I successfully lost 5 stone plus (70 lb +) on a low carb diet and have maintained that weight loss now for almost 7 years but at no time did I add any extra fat to my diet, the fact that I cut carbs means that my percentage of fat increased even though I didnt eat any more fat than normal.

In fact I almost certainly ate less fat as well as protein and carbs as I cut back on all food groups but mostly carbs, I ate around 60g carbs a day for just under a year, I know that as I was on MDI insulin so had to count the carbs I ate although I have never counted calories, I just ate less of everything and drank no alcohol for around 6 months, it was hard I wont lie but I was terrified of diabetic complications and knew I had to lose weight to lose my insulin resistance.

After the first year I then started to increase the carbs I ate up to around 120g - 130g a day for the next year or so. Now I eat a pretty normal diet but I rarely snack still and only eat small meals, that is compared to how I used to stuff my face every day.

IMHO low carbs is best to reduce bg levels and low calories are best for weight loss. Do both and you might just put your T2 in remission as I have.

Call it a lifestyle change.

 

[chrismk]

Yes, although I am on moderate fat, moderate carbs-I think you need to count both carbs and calories if you have extra weight to lose. I am currently (this week) using chron-o-meter. There are free versions and enhanced versions of chron-o-meter. On both versions you can input your information and it will tell what calorie goal and % fat goals you should aim for based on your preferred diet and weight goals. LCHF is called keotogenic on their drop down menu menu for diet choices. The calorie goals are right in line with what works for me-other programs have suggested I eat way more calories than my body can take without gaining weight. You also input your activity levels to reach your Basal Metabolic Rate ( BMR). Mine is currently 1478 calories per day. I am eating a little below that level and just had a 5 pound weight loss today when I weighed. I think it will reduce my daily calorie goal when I input it-I have not yet. I am currently at 40% fat but many others here are at higher levels than that. I hope that helps you. Also 1 gram of fat is 9 calories, 1 gram of carbohydrate is 4 calories, and 1 gram of protein is 4 calories.

I just updated my weight and it changed my BMR to 1456 calories per day.

Thanks for this. My Fitbit does the same thing with its app but I wondered how the two related.

 

[chrismk]

Thanks to everyone - food for thought . . .!