Pushed too far?!

Hobo1978

Well-Known Member
Messages
85
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
I suppose I am talking about ppl who turn up on the forum, do amazingly well getting their bg down, their fasting bg down, losing weight... The works.

Then they typically hit a challenge, like xmas, or a holiday, and have a few days off. But the days stretch to weeks, and maybe months, and they stop testing, and the blood glucose creeps up - very similar to your situation, really.

And when they decide to get back on the wagon (diet, low carb, Newcastle Diet, whatever), they find that their bgs are a bit slower to respond, the second time around. And the weight is a bit slower to go... Their actions still work. The diets still work. But it is just a bit harder this time.

It isn't a diabetic phenomenon, really. I think it is a pretty universal diet phenomenon. And it is why people almost always do splendidly on their first ever diet and think they've 'cracked it' - only to find that they have actually taken the first step onto a lifetime of yo-yoing.

Please don't think I am saying this to depress you. I am NOT.
(And i am speaking as one who has learned this lesson the hard way).
I am saying this in the hope that you remember it next time you are tempted to fall off the wagon.

Think of it this way:
- dieting/controlling bg b diet is easy. Simple. A walk in the park. Just like strolling up a nice even path on a gentle hill.
- yet everytime you walk that path, it gets a wee bit steeper, and a wee bit more uneven underfoot.

By the time you've walked it half a dozen times, you need sherpas, cheerleaders and a hip replacement. ;)

Tell me more about the cheerleaders....
 
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Energize

Well-Known Member
Messages
810
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Am I interpreting that you suggest a home insulin resistance test is available? I'd be interested to explore that. I don't think I have much, if any IR now, but I'd still like to know.
Hi @andbreath
I have done a quick search and come up with 3 sites offering Home Kits for Insulin Resistance. The prices range from £49 to £348. Seems to me rather a large price range! I'd be interested if anyone can verify these tests, whether they are accurate and what price they paid, etc.
 

AndBreathe

Master
Retired Moderator
Messages
11,320
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Hi @andbreath
I have done a quick search and come up with 3 sites offering Home Kits for Insulin Resistance. The prices range from £49 to £348. Seems to me rather a large price range! I'd be interested if anyone can verify these tests, whether they are accurate and what price they paid, etc.

Could you post the links? It seems likely the cheaper options are going to be home tests and the more expensive a lab test, and possibly as part of a wider diabetes panel?
 

Energize

Well-Known Member
Messages
810
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Could you post the links? It seems likely the cheaper options are going to be home tests and the more expensive a lab test, and possibly as part of a wider diabetes panel?
@AndBreathe

The links in regard of home tests re Insulin Resistance having put in Google "home test kit insulin resistance uk"

£348 - appears to include Cholestrol breakdown - appears to be sent to laboratory
http://www.naturalhealthpractice.com/Insulin_Resistance_Test_by_Pos_P1407C338.cfm

£49 - includes a random blood glucose test along with Insulin level measurement - sent to laboratory
https://www.medichecks.com/find-a-test/test/Insulin-Resistance-Test_FIRI/

£255 - would seem to be in laboratory - includes Cholestrol + breakdown and HbA1c
http://www.smartnutrition.co.uk/health-tests/metabolic-syndrome-insulin-resistance/

You may be able to find more sites with differing key words, perhaps
J
 

Hobo1978

Well-Known Member
Messages
85
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
9.0 this morning. Definitely heading in the right direction I think. Nice breakfast of a ommlette with 2 rashers of bacon. So much better than my usual yoghurt
 

Hobo1978

Well-Known Member
Messages
85
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
I know 9 is high, but my numbers have always been higher in the morning so it's used to be around 7 when I was 2 stone lighter so at the moment I'm feeling confident I can fix myself!
 
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walnut_face

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,748
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
@Hobo1978 welcome back to the fold! I found the lbs fell off with lower carb intake, no need to count calories, it just happened. I personally think the 80/20 rule applies, in that 80% of the effort id diet and 20% exercise (if you can do it)
I am with @Brunneria on the task getting harder each time. I notice that if I overindulge for just one day my BG's the following day are a sharp reminder, and yet it takes almost a week of careful eating to restore levels back to before the 'pig-out' Personally chinese is a no-no, bar the crispy duck (sans pancakes and sauce) so I might as well do it myself. Fish and Chips requires removal of batter, and I have already moved to the OAP portions :meh:
I hope you succeed and have kept your old wardrobe
 
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Kristin251

Expert
Messages
5,334
Type of diabetes
LADA
Treatment type
Insulin
9.0 this morning. Definitely heading in the right direction I think. Nice breakfast of a ommlette with 2 rashers of bacon. So much better than my usual yoghurt
Excellent news!!! As walnut face said it can take days or up to a week from one cheat meal, not even a days worth!! I completely don't understand it but I've been reminded too many times that there is no break from D. I rarely cheat now. Too big of a price to pay. I also feel like walnut face in that going out and having to remove everything and still some slips in and we never know how much, it's just easier to make at home. I've been able to make loads of tasty dishes without carbs. I actually prefer things not being gobbed with sauces and gravies now. Though I still love them, they kill my bs and I usually don't feel well after. My taste buds have changed and simple and fresh is what appeals most to me now.

For ME, I have found 1 carb raises my bs at least 7 points, depending on the carb. As ridiculous as this sounds if I'm a tad low before bed I eat a radish and I go up about 7. It's good info to have if I need to treat a low but don't want to over treat it. I'm sure you don't have that problem but if your yogurt had 5 carbs that could potentially shoot you up even much higher in the morning. Best to keep carbs as low as possible in the morning. I need a fatty bf that's very low or no carbs and I still need to split my doses of insulin three times. I can eat far more at dinner with one small dose and stay steady. So for ME, my carbs ramp up through the day but again I'm never over 20 for the day, unless I have wine and that too raises me.

I couldn't figure out my carb to bs ratio until instarted on insulin and not sure there's a way for type 2 but it just shows you how much one carb can effect bs. Ridiculous. Maybe you could try yogurt for lunch if you love it. Or keep hard boiled eggs on hand and mix with some mayo! Yum. O half an avocado, turkey slices on a piece of lettuce with mayo or avocado. Just a few ideas. I do keep veggies low at bf as well. I save them for lunch and dinnner. Even salads of just greens require insulin for me so I keep them small. Just some ideas. Keep testing and you will find what meals work and when during the day they work. I pretty much eat the same things everyday and the same size and I know my insulin requirements. I do eat a variety of veggies and proteins but I know my macros at each meal. Some would be bored to tears but I have no anxiety about what or how much to eat. It took awhile to find my meals, macros and insulin doses so I just stick with it. I'm not bored at all. It's just food but it tastes great.

I'm so happy things are going the right way. Fasting is always the last to return to normal. As your set point gets lower, it will follow.
 
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Kristin251

Expert
Messages
5,334
Type of diabetes
LADA
Treatment type
Insulin
WOOT WOOT!!! CLAP CLAP!!! You CAN do this!!!

What are you eating? Are you enjoying it ?
 
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Resurgam

Expert
Messages
9,849
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
Treatment type
Diet only
having a meter and sticking to low carb - it isn't no carb if you are eating salad, then I have seen my average readings drop week by week - testing before eating and two hours after.
If I eat too many grapes then I can get a 12 - easily, but I then cut out all carbs for a couple of meals and tell myself that I can't do that any more. It is still early days, not yet two months from diagnosis, but the medication is not something I can live with, but I know I can do low carb, I just need to see what the three month test shows so I can find out if I can cope or not.
 

Kristin251

Expert
Messages
5,334
Type of diabetes
LADA
Treatment type
Insulin
having a meter and sticking to low carb - it isn't no carb if you are eating salad, then I have seen my average readings drop week by week - testing before eating and two hours after.
If I eat too many grapes then I can get a 12 - easily, but I then cut out all carbs for a couple of meals and tell myself that I can't do that any more. It is still early days, not yet two months from diagnosis, but the medication is not something I can live with, but I know I can do low carb, I just need to see what the three month test shows so I can find out if I can cope or not.
You are still very new to this. We have all tested the waters I'm sure many times as I know I have. Eventually I realized diabetes never cuts me a break. It will always be there to remind me with every bite I put in my mouth. Eventually the consequences of trying to 'fix' it for days just usually isn't worth it. I rarely cheat or eat carbs. If I do it's just a tiny taste. Stinks but I got used to it. I do have occasional pity parties with myself but then I just move on and go about my usual business.
 

Resurgam

Expert
Messages
9,849
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
Treatment type
Diet only
You are still very new to this. We have all tested the waters I'm sure many times as I know I have. Eventually I realized diabetes never cuts me a break. It will always be there to remind me with every bite I put in my mouth. Eventually the consequences of trying to 'fix' it for days just usually isn't worth it. I rarely cheat or eat carbs. If I do it's just a tiny taste. Stinks but I got used to it. I do have occasional pity parties with myself but then I just move on and go about my usual business.
I'm not looking for favours - I don't take any prisoners either. Diabetes is not able to feel sorry for anybody because they are trying - every meal I prepare and eat is going to make the high level of blood glucose I had when first tested fall further into the past and be negated by all the lower ones since.
I will be trying to fix what is wrong until it is either fixed or I can't crawl to the fridge any more. It has been weeks, it might take months or years - even decades, or maybe I will have to just eat lower and lower amounts of carbs as I get older.
Whatever it is - high glucose is not going to be my normal situation. It is the enemy, the target for tonight and if I don't beat it I'm going down fighting.
 

srm100841

Well-Known Member
Messages
65
So I was diagnosed a couple of years ago. Went on such a strict diet, got my fasting blood down to between 5-7 every morning and all was well. Moved last year after two years with parents and went absolutely off the rails. I ate and drank everything in sight and basically forgot about being type 2. Takeaways, the lot! Didn't test myself anymore, just took my 1 metformin a day and ate whatever. You name it, I ate it. Put on 2 stone. Testing my fasting blood 4 days ago and it was 12. I haven't had it down to lower than 8 during the day now for 3 days. I'm eating no carbs, so basically meat and salad, stir frys etc. My question is this: have I done irreparable damage to myself, or can I get this back under control? If I lose weight again, will the numbers come down? Has anyone been through a similar thing?! Thanks for your time!
Best regards
A naughty type 2
It's up to you but I would suggest that there's not the option to be naughty!

I was diagnosed in 2002 and given a diet agreed with my local diabetic nurse based upon NHS guidelines. For 7 years my levels grew steadily annually as did my gliclazide medication until I was on the maximum possible. I then discoverd this site and particularly the low carb forum and decided to follow advice give. Subsequently I've maintained BG levels between 3.7 and 8 with very rare incursions into the lower or higher figures. At the same time my medication has reduced to the minimum dose. My diet is definitely low carb high fat and this seems to suit me. Like everyone else I've had to live by trial and error but last year my highest reading was 7.2 and lowest 3.8 so I'll settle for that. My 'recommended diet' average with the diet nurse recommendation was between 11 and 13!!!

I do not allow 'treats' I'm afraid so stick to no bread, pasta or rice but I do have some small portions of potato periodically. I stopped milk and double cream because both seemed to give me spikes but clotted cream is fine. I drink black coffee or green decaffeinated tea. Lots of meat, fish, salad, eggs, cheese, green vegetabels as fresh meals also lots of Italian with homemade tomato sauce, stir fry Chinese and very many Indian dishes. When I eat out I tend to avoid aauces I do not recognise but test shortly after eating to see the effect of any unknowns so that I can either re-order or avoid in future.

There's no substitute for both trial and error and then self discipline in my case. We're not all the same of course but it's worth analysing what is good for you and what is not and abandoning what's not. Doubtless I'm teaching my grandma to suck eggs but ............

Best wishes and good luck.

S
 

veggirl

Member
Messages
20
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
This is my first ever post. I can really relate to this. I was diagnosed 3 years ago hba1c 66 fasting bg 8 weighing 14 stone. Tried metformin and kept getting dizzy and nearly passing out so gave up and dieted. At my best got down to 10st 5lb hba1c37
5 fasting bg and told that all was well, clever girl! Huh !

3 weeks in hotels on holiday in New Zealand january last year followed by 2 weeks in the USA and I had put on a stone. Have fallen off the wagon and been eating just the odd bit of cake or a potato or bread etc ie far too much carbs.. Paid for private hba1c cos I knew it would be bad and Yup hba1c now 48. So I am trying to psyche myself up for another round of dietin to get back to 10 stone and preferably a further stone off too but I can't seem to get motivated this time like I did last.

Dietician at hospital didn't help "if you cut out all carbs then you are eating high fat and thats bad for you" despite the fact that my sugars were down and I was losing weight. My trouseres are tight so perhaps that will help as I don't want to get another wardrobe full of new clothes. The last diet cost a fortune as I had to repalce all my clothes including undies and coats the only thing I kept were shoes and socks.

So now its back to Newcastle style for 8 weeks or so and see if that helps.