Cowspiracy

[Beagler]

Yes, I agree that dead is dead. But I would counter that with life is not necessarily life! I think compassion and high welfare is vitally important, whether we are considering the treatment of pet canaries or laying hens or killer whales in aquariums.

In fact, my bantams are having a lousy life at the moment, because they are shut in due to the virus risk. So they get extra greens to peck and occasional handfuls of dried meal worms. I still do this, although I know that at some point they will be old or sick or injured and I will kill them. Not by stabbing or shooting but by taking them quietly to one side and wringing their neck as quickly as I can.

 

[Avocado Sevenfold]

This, it's a nice image of all the happy UK grass fed smiling cows, frolicking all day in the fields.
I used to work in the dairy industry, and they were bred for milk, not for slaughter.......
Sometimes reality is best avoided.

What happened to the cows when they were past their milking years?

 

[Avocado Sevenfold]

Yes, I agree that dead is dead. But I would counter that with life is not necessarily life! I think compassion and high welfare is vitally important, whether we are considering the treatment of pet canaries or laying hens or killer whales in aquariums.

In fact, my bantams are having a lousy life at the moment, because they are shut in due to the virus risk. So they get extra greens to peck and occasional handfuls of dried meal worms. I still do this, although I know that at some point they will be old or sick or injured and I will kill them. Not by stabbing or shooting but by taking them quietly to one side and wringing their neck as quickly as I can.

Get well soon chicken girls

 

[douglas99]

What happened to the cows when they were past their milking years?

The same as when they became ill, and it wasn't worth treating anymore, or their yield dropped, or the quota for the farm fell........
Stuffed full of antibiotics, bred, separated from their calves, left to fill with as much milk as possible before eventually being milked, yes, it's wonderful to watch how lucky they are.

And they're the herds that are bred to be kept for a repeating return, not bred to be killed as quickly as economically possible.

 

[ExD]

Animals are killed! Its horrible and heartbreaking, especially when you've fed and raised them yourself - but we can't grow cerials on mountainsides although we can grow meat. I do stress that animals in this country cannot be stuffed with hormones and get anitbiotics only when they are ill - all that rubbish is from USA propaganda. By law we have to keep a record of all medicines or drugs given on the farm, this is verified by a vet and spot checked by DEFRA so honestly you are quite safe these days.
Sadly milk cows are slaughtered when they come to the end of their milking lives, I;m glad we don't have any, they give poor quality meat as they're so old, and it tends to go into pet food or maybe the chinese takeaway trade, any decent butcher doesn't buy it. Not sure about cheaper supermarkets. Sick animal carcasses never go into the food chain, there are heavy penalties for this offence.
Its a personal thing as to whether you go vegan or veggie - we are in between the devil and a hard place aren't we? I'd like to turn veggie (apart from bacon of course) but it isn't practical and hubbie wouldn't approve.
Anyone like to come and see our animals - not up to the knees in ****, and you won't need your wellies.
I'd post some pics if I knew how!!!!!
I wonder exactly what happens to horses ?????? now there's a whole new can of worms (you can eat worms, well they do in the army, they make them into omelettes) - oh dear think of hens!!! We are a horrible load of meat eating gluttons when you think of it.

 

[douglas99]

Animals are killed! Its horrible and heartbreaking, especially when you've fed and raised them yourself - but we can't grow cerials on mountainsides although we can grow meat. I do stress that animals in this country cannot be stuffed with hormones and get anitbiotics only when they are ill - all that rubbish is from USA propaganda. By law we have to keep a record of all medicines or drugs given on the farm, this is verified by a vet and spot checked by DEFRA so honestly you are quite safe these days.
Sadly milk cows are slaughtered when they come to the end of their milking lives, I;m glad we don't have any, they give poor quality meat as they're so old, and it tends to go into pet food or maybe the chinese takeaway trade, any decent butcher doesn't buy it. Not sure about cheaper supermarkets. Sick animal carcasses never go into the food chain, there are heavy penalties for this offence.
Its a personal thing as to whether you go vegan or veggie - we are in between the devil and a hard place aren't we? I'd like to turn veggie (apart from bacon of course) but it isn't practical and hubbie wouldn't approve.
Anyone like to come and see our animals - not up to the knees in ****, and you won't need your wellies.
I'd post some pics if I knew how!!!!!
I wonder exactly what happens to horses ?????? now there's a whole new can of worms (you can eat worms, well they do in the army, they make them into omelettes) - oh dear think of hens!!! We are a horrible load of meat eating gluttons when you think of it.

How many times has DEFRA spot checked your animals in the last five years, and how many animals out of your total have been checked, and what notice period did you have?

 

[ontario_ogirl]

I loved the movie, and felt it all to be factual. Look at climate change. There are reasons behind it.... unless of course your head is buried in the sand. I know we don't need to eat meat - I have been vegan for 39 years and aside from having T1 (although I don't worry about complications because my A1C is 4.7 and I eat LC so don't have significant spikes) I am in great health. Eating meat is bad for the environment on so many levels and so unnecessary. People are lazy, they don't want alternatives even if it's better for the body and the environment.

 

[Angelofthemarches]

I loved the movie, and felt it all to be factual. Look at climate change. There are reasons behind it.... unless of course your head is buried in the sand. I know we don't need to eat meat - I have been vegan for 39 years and aside from having T1 (although I don't worry about complications because my A1C is 4.7 and I eat LC so don't have significant spikes) I am in great health. Eating meat is bad for the environment on so many levels and so unnecessary. People are lazy, they don't want alternatives even if it's better for the body and the environment.

Would love some suggestions for lchf vegan recipes..

 

[ExD]

We were spot checked twice in 2016 - but not at all in 2015!
I'm not going to be drawn into posting on this point again, lets agree to differ over animal medication and welfare - little red tractors and all.

 

[alexmtaylor]

An interesting film about the effect of food on health is Forks Over Knives https://www.forksoverknives.com/the-film/.

 

[Avocado Sevenfold]

Would love some suggestions for lchf vegan recipes..

Try this thread...

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/vegan-meals.88333/

I am a lowish carb T2 vegan and have a non-diabetic hba1c level. The food is tasty too!

 

[Kyambala]

We were spot checked twice in 2016 - but not at all in 2015!
I'm not going to be drawn into posting on this point again, lets agree to differ over animal medication and welfare - little red tractors and all.

Hello ExD. In Uganda I had cows, pigs & chickens which were all "free range" at a school of 350 children. The milk from the cows was used for the children's porridge but when they could no longer "produce" they became part of the "food chain" at the local butchers. A loving wise God created these animals to be eaten "Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you" (Genesis 9:3). I used to work in the Cryogenc food freezing industry and if people knew the content of "processed" foods they would be horrified. I love animals (even wasps) and it is amazing how animals can communicate with humans. The only problems we ever had was when I was absent from the school for 12 months due to my wife's illness and a "non-lover" of animals was in charge - he almost starved them. Proverbs 12:10 says "A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel".

In my experience farmers love their animals and go to great lengths to see that they stay healthy - but at the end of the day they know that they are basically reared for food - and with much sadness, yes sadness, they have to surrender them for slaughter.

My wife could not eat chickens from our own stock, she would say "I don't eat my friends" - so to eat chicken we bought chicken from from another source.

Here endeth the lesson.

 

[Angelofthemarches]

Try this thread...

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/vegan-meals.88333/

I am a lowish carb T2 vegan and have a non-diabetic hba1c level. The food is tasty too!

Will do. My daughter's vegan so Xmas was a bit tricky catering for my lchf, my husband's omnivorous diet and my daughter's vegan diet. X

 

[Humma]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3302820/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

 

[douglas99]

Hello ExD. In Uganda I had cows, pigs & chickens which were all "free range" at a school of 350 children. The milk from the cows was used for the children's porridge but when they could no longer "produce" they became part of the "food chain" at the local butchers. A loving wise God created these animals to be eaten "Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you" (Genesis 9:3). I used to work in the Cryogenc food freezing industry and if people knew the content of "processed" foods they would be horrified. I love animals (even wasps) and it is amazing how animals can communicate with humans. The only problems we ever had was when I was absent from the school for 12 months due to my wife's illness and a "non-lover" of animals was in charge - he almost starved them. Proverbs 12:10 says "A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel".

In my experience farmers love their animals and go to great lengths to see that they stay healthy - but at the end of the day they know that they are basically reared for food - and with much sadness, yes sadness, they have to surrender them for slaughter.

My wife could not eat chickens from our own stock, she would say "I don't eat my friends" - so to eat chicken we bought chicken from from another source.

Here endeth the lesson.

9:2 to 9:5 give the context to 9:3

The fear and dread of you will fall on all the beasts of the earth, and on all the birds in the sky, on every creature that moves along the ground, and on all the fish in the sea; they are given into your hands.

Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything.

But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it.

And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each human being, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of another human being.

 

[douglas99]

We were spot checked twice in 2016 - but not at all in 2015!
I'm not going to be drawn into posting on this point again, lets agree to differ over animal medication and welfare - little red tractors and all.

I don't think we're differing, we're both agreeing the policing of what actually goes into the food chain is none existent.

 

[Kyambala]

I don't think we're differing, we're both agreeing the policing of what actually goes into the food chain is none existent.

Hi Douglas. I don't think the problem lies with farmers - in my experience the problem lies with those who sell farmers "animal feeds". Farmers don't have the time to check the contents of everything which is advertised as "animal feeds". Remember the scandal of "sheeps' brains" mixed with grain being fed to cows to increase their milk yield? I think the manufacterer called it "cow cake". Most farmers, perhaps all farmers, had no idea that they were feeding their cows poison.

The "policing" needs to be carried out at the "manufacturer's" premises. Farmers are experts at rearing animals, NOT at analysing the contents of "animal feeds". Farmers work many long hours in sometimes terrible weather for much less than the "minimum wage" - they do this work because they love it and they love the animals they work with.

 

[LittleGreyCat]

I read/saw recently that upland grazing is very "non-green" because on poor ground a very large area has to be cleared of trees and shrubs to let the grass grow to feed one animal.

This reduces the absorption of CO2 which can increase the risk of global warming.

If the aim is to be "carbon neutral" then we should have as much forest as possible. This does not always work well with the needs of agriculture, especially free range livestock.

 

[douglas99]

Hi Douglas. I don't think the problem lies with farmers - in my experience the problem lies with those who sell farmers "animal feeds". Farmers don't have the time to check the contents of everything which is advertised as "animal feeds". Remember the scandal of "sheeps' brains" mixed with grain being fed to cows to increase their milk yield? I think the manufacterer called it "cow cake". Most farmers, perhaps all farmers, had no idea that they were feeding their cows poison.

The "policing" needs to be carried out at the "manufacturer's" premises. Farmers are experts at rearing animals, NOT at analysing the contents of "animal feeds". Farmers work many long hours in sometimes terrible weather for much less than the "minimum wage" - they do this work because they love it and they love the animals they work with.

Farmers aren't stupid.
They know exactly what feed will give them the maximum product yield.
The pricing structure of the feed versus yield is also very indicative of it's contents
Farming isn't for minimum wage in the UK.

 

[douglas99]

I read/saw recently that upland grazing is very "non-green" because on poor ground a very large area has to be cleared of trees and shrubs to let the grass grow to feed one animal.

This reduces the absorption of CO2 which can increase the risk of global warming.

If the aim is to be "carbon neutral" then we should have as much forest as possible. This does not always work well with the needs of agriculture, especially free range livestock.

Grass fed cows are very area intensive.
That's one of the main reasons grass fed cows are slaughtered quite young.
Most grass fed cows need to be (legally) finished on grain and bulk feed, as grass simply can't provide the amount of feed needed.
Even grass fed cows are fed extra nutrients to bulk them up before that stage.