There is a cure.. how come nobody does this?

[Prem51]

Fast forward 3 months I believe 2 out of 11 got diabetes again. Those are great numbers..

But the fact remains that 11 out of 11 where essentially cured by the end of the study

Well apart from the fact (as pointed out by various forum members) that this was a small number of people recently diagnosed and specifically selected.
For that small group yes those are great numbers. But were they 'cured'? If two went on to become diabetic again they obviously weren't cured. If they had achieved a normal functioning pancreas again they would not have become diabetic again.

But you have made me more interested in the Newcastle Diet and I will look into it and probably give it a try.

 

[AndBreathe]

I just came across this article it's a good read.. and has a study that has had people with over 20 years t2d reverse

Also it brings up the point I was looking at.. how those that had BARIATRIC surgery had reversed their T2D BEFORE any weight loss occurred. Incredibly interesting...

https://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/well/2016/04/18/hope-for-reversing-type-2-diabetes/?referer=

People due to undergo bariatric surgery must embark upon a very strict, low calorie/low bulk diet for some weeks beforehand, so they could, in reality, be mirroring the ND, with real food. Thereafter the surgery, and recovery period necessitates incredibly small portions of everything, due to it's nature. It feels to me that almost anyone's insulin (natural or injected) would be minimalised for some time at least

Sadly, a bit like reversing diabetes, not all bariatric surgery is successful, with a decent proportion of patients regaining the weight they lose in the early stages post-surgery, not to mention the potential short, medium and long term side/knock-on effects.

 

[phil1966]

View attachment 21739 But did

you see this
The results started from the first week..
Maybe only a week or two is actually nessacary..

I think you're conflating having a non-diabetic FBG reading with "being cured" - they're certainly not the same thing:

I've not had an FBG in the non-diabetic range for years because I carefully control what I eat but if I ate what non-diabetics can typically eat then they wouldn't be like that.

 

[bulkbiker]

That is my exact point it's almost like they hide this information..
They can't sell you anything if all you have to do is fast for a week or so

You can search on Google. Look for
"Pubmed reversal diabetes"
Also "ncbi diabettes reversal"

Have you actually ever fasted for a week or so?
you make it sound incredibly easy...
You keep mixing things up the Newcastle Diet is not fasting.. it is severe calorie restriction which could mess up your metabolism. The jury is out on that one. It is not for everyone and the study hand selected people who, a bit like me. were highly motivated to try it because they didn't accept what their doctor had told them about Type 2 being progressive and inescapable. So you had highly motivated people and not even they could all keep their bloods low after the study..
You make so many assumptions by reading just one extract of a study that I can't even find the original of.

 

[Angelofthemarches]

Your words. If you want to keep this purely about the ND, dont chuck other **** into the mix. I suggest you go back and read what you've written.

As for agenda..I've had normal A1c's for years now, no symptoms of diabetes. I was quite happy to stay out of this thread until I saw the remarks you made, such as what you wrote above.
The part where you say, and I quote "while we all may be different, we all got here the same way.
Overeating..mostly fructose and simple sugars. Paired with a lack of exercise"

You are wrong. End of.

'Blood sugar 101' gives an interesting read on the causes of type 2 as do Dr Fung's books. Nothing as simplistic as the overeating theory.

 

[serenity648]

Now 12 weeks later 2 of the 11 went back and got t2d again.. most likely from poor eating habits.

You have no way of knowing that. Some of the offense you cause is by your repeatedly attributing the continuation of Type 2 as the fault and failure of the patients. It is not that simple, nor is it medically accurate.

(PS I think you need to read up on what Ad Hominem Attack means)

 

[serenity648]

Ok and what about that? That's not an insult.

It is insulting to be told that your illness is your own fault due to your behaviour, when it isnt true. Would you say this to a breast cancer patient? or someone with mental health issues?
The facts, presented to you in this thread, have proved that your assertion is wrong. Please have the courtesy to accept that you are wrong.

 

[serenity648]

I just came across this article it's a good read.. and has a study that has had people with over 20 years t2d reverse

Also it brings up the point I was looking at.. how those that had BARIATRIC surgery had reversed their T2D BEFORE any weight loss occurred. Incredibly interesting...

https://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/well/2016/04/18/hope-for-reversing-type-2-diabetes/?referer=

your link is about VLC diets, not bariatric surgery.

Bariatric surgery involves dieting for some time before you can have the operation, so weight loss will have already occurred before the surgery, thus rendering your assertion of reversing T2 before wight loss occurred as inaccurate.

http://www.ramsayhealth.co.uk/blog/...ost-op-diets-for-weight-loss-surgery-patients

 

[Indy51]

The pre-surgery diet is specifically designed to shrink the liver so that it doesn't impede the surgeon. Presumably quite a lot of liver fat has gone before the surgery occurs.

 

[Avocado Sevenfold]

If it works for you then that's all that matters so good luck with it. Some others may try it and it works for them but there is no one way that works for everyone

For the Newcastle Diet to work, you need to have the condition to cure in the first place. The OP does not have diabetes so cannot claim to have used the ND to cure it.

I agree with your other sentence

 

[Djstevesire]

From the info provided about this study, it is hardly a snapshot of type 2 diabetics. They've selected a small handful of diabetics and made sure they're not taking medications and that they've had diabetes less than 5 years. So chances of these diabetics having beta cell damage is next to zero. With only 2 females in the study it doesn't give any true reflections on whether it would work for all females with diabetes. I can tell you I've done the 800 calorie VLCD previously and yes it does lower your blood sugar and I didn't feel too well on that diet at all. It was particularly hard when my hormones changed and my blood sugars went nuts anyhow. So to me this study is like a drop in the ocean and not a study that can say we know how to reverse or 'cure' diabetes. But as I mentioned before the bottom line is if you change your diet to control sugar levels then good... means your controlling your diabetes. I'm not sure why people like to use words that do not reflect the true picture such as 'reversed' and 'cure'. Perhaps go back to eating what you used to eat prior to diagnosis and then monitor your sugar levels and if you have sugar levels in the normal range all the time then freely use those words. Otherwise it is good BGL control and that's all.

Would the part about them going back to there regular diet be? I could have sworn I read that in the study... they where told to go and eat regularly..

 

[Djstevesire]

Well apart from the fact (as pointed out by various forum members) that this was a small number of people recently diagnosed and specifically selected.
For that small group yes those are great numbers. But were they 'cured'? If two went on to become diabetic again they obviously weren't cured. If they had achieved a normal functioning pancreas again they would not have become diabetic again.

But you have made me more interested in the Newcastle Diet and I will look into it and probably give it a try.

I'm happy for you.. I'm actually gonna try something very similar. But with complete fasting..

 

[Djstevesire]

People due to undergo bariatric surgery must embark upon a very strict, low calorie/low bulk diet for some weeks beforehand, so they could, in reality, be mirroring the ND, with real food. Thereafter the surgery, and recovery period necessitates incredibly small portions of everything, due to it's nature. It feels to me that almost anyone's insulin (natural or injected) would be minimalised for some time at least

Sadly, a bit like reversing diabetes, not all bariatric surgery is successful, with a decent proportion of patients regaining the weight they lose in the early stages post-surgery, not to mention the potential short, medium and long term side/knock-on effects.

My girl friend had bariatric surgery..
I'll ask her.. first hand.. but from knowing her I doubt she did anykind of diet lol!!

She had a complication years later (telescope intestine) and she begged me to bring chipotle 2 days after her surgery..
Lmfaooo! She is nuts but I love her..

Btw I checked her bg for fun one day after we ate ice cream and it was at 99.
I found that to be wierd ..

 

[Freema]

I Think some People do become diabetic because They eat much more calories than They use and that is something I'll focus on not to do in the future except from maybe a handfull of days a year, my diabetes can have a lot to do with that I used to be an active and rather Healthy eating person and turned into a sedentary heavy carb eating person hardly ever moving at all depressed and taking pills that also made me gain weight and also that my metabolism was totally destroyd from drinking radioaktive iodine and my GP at that time thought I was eating loads of chocolates every day I gained 6 kg a month at that period because my thyroid gland was killed

 

[Freema]

There was some experiment with diabetic dogs where a nerve between kidney and pancreas was cut over stopping signals between the 2 organs and those dogs apeared not to have diabetes after that I dont know What the longer perspektive was But I am very puzzled by that experiment I must admit

 

[Djstevesire]

It is insulting to be told that your illness is your own fault due to your behaviour, when it isnt true. Would you say this to a breast cancer patient? or someone with mental health issues?
The facts, presented to you in this thread, have proved that your assertion is wrong. Please have the courtesy to accept that you are wrong.

This isn't breast cancer.. and this isn't about me being right... I never said anyone was wrong nor am I arguing with anyone.. so what can I be right or wrong about? Let me break this down for you.

If a smoker contracted lung cancer that would be their fault. I'll let you think about that.. they know the dangers of smoking yet the continued.

If I continue to eat **** and lay in bed knowing that it brought me to prediabettes levels
Being aware of my elevated Bg and continuing that lifestyle Who would be responsible for my diabetes..?? Would it not be my fault?

Now I'm not trying to upset anyone but I'm stating facts.
NOT everyone with t2d diabetes was responsible for their condition. However some definelty where aware and refuse to change their diet/lifestyle..

I have a good friend who is about 50 and african American . He gets drunk every night in vodka and Redbull.. he is also 300 plus lbs.
I beg him everyday to at least workout and drink sugar free Redbull...he doesn't listen.. I've even offered to go to the gym wth him.. it's been 3 years I've been warning him. Now would you say he wasn't responsible for becoming diabetic?

If I wasn't proactive about my own situation. To make the changes in my life I may have well become diabetic as well..

However this is not the point of this convo. I really don't understand why your trying to steer it that way.

The only reason we are having this back and forth is because you decided to continue it.. im not here to play blame games ect.. im here to discuss the studies.. your not really contributing to that. It almost as if you want me to say soemthing crazy..If you want to be all hurt about soemthing that wasn't directed to you that's up to you.. but please for the sake of others keep the negativity at a minimum. Your ad hominem attacks mean nothing as they don't change the studies we are discussing.

But as you can see so far we have 1 person looking to try the Newcastle method because of this thread that I started and if he/she is successful. What do you have to say then?

I may also try it.. albeit not the full 8 weeks..

Now the question remains.
The question is have you tried it?

 

[Djstevesire]

My life style may have been perfect for the diet to work. I was very obese, I got little to no exercise, blood glucose 10 and 11, fasting was 6.5, after losing 40kg very fast(maybe too fast as even doctor was concerned), with lots of cardio, my blood glucose returned to normal. I wakeup to 4s in the norming(4.6 mmol/l this morning at 7am), and even a normal Christmas dinner(with stuffing, apple sauce, cranberry sauce, etc) and dessert only managed to give me 5s, and fasting was even lower next day.

I'm not stupid to think I'm cured, and will ever return to what I used to eat, as I would be obese again, and after Christmas I went back to 130-160g carbs a day, and low gi food so I don't stress my body.

That's just Being smart..
You may not be aware of this but many formerly overweight/obese people never want to be that way again. It justbsk happend you had diabetes. But the behavior is the same..
I'm happy for you! Good job!

 

[Djstevesire]

My life style may have been perfect for the diet to work. I was very obese, I got little to no exercise, blood glucose 10 and 11, fasting was 6.5, after losing 40kg very fast(maybe too fast as even doctor was concerned), with lots of cardio, my blood glucose returned to normal. I wakeup to 4s in the norming(4.6 mmol/l this morning at 7am), and even a normal Christmas dinner(with stuffing, apple sauce, cranberry sauce, etc) and dessert only managed to give me 5s, and fasting was even lower next day.

I'm not stupid to think I'm cured, and will ever return to what I used to eat, as I would be obese again, and after Christmas I went back to 130-160g carbs a day, and low gi food so I don't stress my body.

And I can assure you when I'm down losing this weight im never letting myself go again... lol

 

[Djstevesire]

Have you actually ever fasted for a week or so?
you make it sound incredibly easy...
You keep mixing things up the Newcastle Diet is not fasting.. it is severe calorie restriction which could mess up your metabolism. The jury is out on that one. It is not for everyone and the study hand selected people who, a bit like me. were highly motivated to try it because they didn't accept what their doctor had told them about Type 2 being progressive and inescapable. So you had highly motivated people and not even they could all keep their bloods low after the study..
You make so many assumptions by reading just one extract of a study that I can't even find the original of.

Yes I have done intermittent fasting on and off for about 3 years. I also did a very low calorie diet for a month before and lost 20lbs. Certain religions do it every year.. I know it's hard. But to Be honest you get used to it. Especially if you become fat adapted. (Keto)

Well aware that Newcastle isn't fasting.
And I don't believe in the messing up your metabolism myth..
From my understanding your metabolism is dictated by lean body mass..(lbm)
The problem occurs when you Lose lbm (to much cardio) then try to eat normally again. You no longer have the lbm to sustain that eating. That's why I recommend lifting weights. I can provide studies to support this. Just trying to share information..

That's why I recommended lifting weights after or even during the weight loss..
To protect your lbm. Or if you do gain size while eating regular it will be in the form of lbm which will allow you to eat more and not gain weight..also this gives you muscles increased insulin sensitivity to absorb glucose.

and before anyone says it again NO. You will not become musclebound.. that takes serious dedicated training and steroids lol..

Most serious natural bodybuilders look regular with clothes on.. far from muscle bound. And they overeat on purpose.

I'm happy for you and your succes.

 

[douglas99]

My life style may have been perfect for the diet to work. I was very obese, I got little to no exercise, blood glucose 10 and 11, fasting was 6.5, after losing 40kg very fast(maybe too fast as even doctor was concerned), with lots of cardio, my blood glucose returned to normal. I wakeup to 4s in the norming(4.6 mmol/l this morning at 7am), and even a normal Christmas dinner(with stuffing, apple sauce, cranberry sauce, etc) and dessert only managed to give me 5s, and fasting was even lower next day.

I'm not stupid to think I'm cured, and will ever return to what I used to eat, as I would be obese again, and after Christmas I went back to 130-160g carbs a day, and low gi food so I don't stress my body.

So basically, like me, you overate, but in some way you still believe overeating to obesity is normal?
I don't.
I know I overate, so I decided to fix that. I now eat normally, and like other normal people on normal diets, we're not diabetic.
I could imagine doing lot of things to excess, but my mindset is, it's far better not to.

It is interesting you are another rapid weight loss though.