Hypo unawareness

[urbanracer]

Hey, not knocking your post.. But did the OP actually suggest this 1.4 & ensuing treatment was happening at the wheel of a car?

Jaylee - most of the replies in this thread are actually a response to Vans in post #5 , not the OP.

 

[Jaylee]

The DVLA do though and quite rightly so, bottom line it is illegal to drive if you are hypo unaware.

Not disagreeing... I've read it.

So to give hope to someone that still retains a driving licence but is in fear of loosing the privelidge due to early onset HA.

I reference Tim's post below.. Easy!

@static192, it can indeed be recovered. There is a pilot programme in the UK called HARP that is being championed by King's College London that focuses on doing just that.

 

[Jaylee]

Jaylee - most of the replies in this thread are actually a response to Vans in post #5 , not the OP.

Hi,
I was referencing Vans all the way.. My support was purely in regards to regaining hypo awairness & not using the DVLA as a "cheap shot"..

 

[catapillar]

That was posibly your own decision or due to hypoglycemic episodes requiring "3rd party" help this advice from your doc...?
I'm sorry your in this position.

Personally, I don't have issue with non HA.

I also don't feel it's appropriate to thunder a judgmental fist down on the table based on personal unfortunate experience on a member tentatively trying to do something about it?

Peace out.

No, nothing to do with requiring third party assistance. I don't have hypo awareness, so I don't have hypo symptoms, so I'm perfectly fine to treat my hypos myself.

The reason I'm not allowed to drive is simply because I don't have hypo awareness. The DVLA is clear, if you don't have hypo awareness, you must inform the DVLA and you must not drive.

I chose to surrender my licence because my understanding is that makes getting it back and being allowed to drive again when/if hypo awareness is restored much more straightforward.

Sorry if you think I've been banging a judgemental fist down. That's definitely not my intention, and something I'm in no position to do. I just wanted to let @vans know the rules on hypo awareness and driving. A lot of diabetics and doctors aren't clear on the rules, but as a diabetic driver without hypo awareness it's your responsibility to follow the rules, don't drive and inform DVLA. Again, if you're up front and volunteer the info it will make being allowed to drive again when hypo awareness is restored much easier. Much easier than if they find out you've been driving for weeks/months without hypo awareness which it sounds like you're doing at the moment. Follow the rules. They are there for your safety and other road users. No hypo awareness means you feel fine when low, but that low can go unnoticed when at the wheel and your brain doesn't work well without sugar, no matter how fine you feel you won't be fine to drive and that drop can happen without any warnings that will give most diabetics a hint to pull over and test or eat some jelly babies. No hypo awareness means no warnings. That's why the rules says you must not drive if you don't have hypo awareness. Hopefully you can restore awareness by running higher for a while and then your consultant can write to DVLA and let them know your fine to drive again, hopefully it will just be temporary.

 

[Jaylee]

Hi guys,

Shurely I'm not the only person missing something here..?
OK. Some of you have become non HA.
But your meters haven't! One Is legally required to test prior & every 2 hours during a drive.
(Yes I know that CGMs are not valid with the DVLA.)
So is it realy that dificult to plan a trip like "fifteen minutes" as vans stated & not lock down a stable BS of the above "5 to drive" without being this "reckless monster"..?
Blimey! Even a correction dose can take over two hours to bring down BG!
I see the answer as just using a "few more strips."

@catapillar , (we don't normally clash like this.) I'm not promoting "anarchy in the UK". I've also noticed both you & @vans are pumpers.
So maybe you guys are prone to swinging more violently.. (Another reason to stay off one myself.?)

I just got no idea why everyone has picked up on one "worry line" about driving, when the real practical concern is "waking up dead."

The night I don't wake from a hypo is the morning My wife will sell my van... (She has her orders.after she waves the ambulance off...)
The money saved from car ownership will be invested in a High end CGM...

 

[noblehead]

has anyone experienced there hypo unawareness go away and and there hypo awareness come back?.

There's a member on here called @yingtong who did just that after starting on a pump and using a CGM, hopefully by tagging him he'll reply to your thread.

 

[catapillar]

Hi guys,

Shurely I'm not the only person missing something here..?
OK. Some of you have become non HA.
But your meters haven't! One Is legally required to test prior & every 2 hours during a drive.
(Yes I know that CGMs are not valid with the DVLA.)
So is it realy that dificult to plan a trip like "fifteen minutes" as vans stated & not lock down a stable BS of the above "5 to drive" without being this "reckless monster"..?
Blimey! Even a correction dose can take over two hours to bring down BG!
I see the answer as just using a "few more strips."

@catapillar , (we don't normally clash like this.) I'm not promoting "anarchy in the UK". I've also noticed both you & @vans are pumpers.
So maybe you guys are prone to swinging more violently.. (Another reason to stay off one myself.?)

I just got no idea why everyone has picked up on one "worry line" about driving, when the real practical concern is "waking up dead."

The night I don't wake from a hypo is the morning My wife will sell my van... (She has her orders.after she waves the ambulance off...)
The money saved from car ownership will be invested in a High end CGM...

I lost my hypo awareness and my driving licence long before I started pumping. I got on the pump because I've lost my hypo awareness.

Yes, perhaps it may be possible to test and avoid the risk of driving while hypo unaware. But the fact is the rules are clear and simple (once you know where to look for them - there are several links in this thread which take you to the DVLA page that says when hypo unaware you must not drive and you must tell the DVLA). No hypo awareness = no driving. I don't make the rules. But I can understand the sense in that one however much it may frustrate me.

I wasn't aware we were clashing, I have no desire to.

 

[urbanracer]

Hi guys,

Shurely I'm not the only person missing something here..?
OK. Some of you have become non HA.
But your meters haven't! One Is legally required to test prior & every 2 hours during a drive.
(Yes I know that CGMs are not valid with the DVLA.)
So is it realy that dificult to plan a trip like "fifteen minutes" as vans stated & not lock down a stable BS of the above "5 to drive" without being this "reckless monster"..?
Blimey! Even a correction dose can take over two hours to bring down BG!
I see the answer as just using a "few more strips."


I just got no idea why everyone has picked up on one "worry line" about driving, when the real practical concern is "waking up dead."
.

The main point I get from Vans' post Jaylee is that her consultant has apparently told her that it's OK to carry on driving and she appears to be doing so, ignorant of the fact that she is breaking the law and believing that the numbers are only for 'guidance' (post #7). Should she be unlucky enough to be involved in an incident where the Police attend and her fitness to drive is called into question - I wonder if her consultatnt will appear in court to back her up?

I don't think the forum is ganging up on Vans, but not attempting to correct the misconception would be wrong in my opinion.

 

[Jaylee]

I lost my hypo awareness and my driving licence long before I started pumping. I got on the pump because I've lost my hypo awareness.

Yes, perhaps it may be possible to test and avoid the risk of driving while hypo unaware. But the fact is the rules are clear and simple (once you know where to look for them - there are several links in this thread which take you to the DVLA page that says when hypo unaware you must not drive and you must tell the DVLA). No hypo awareness = no driving. I don't make the rules. But I can understand the sense in that one however much it may frustrate me.

I wasn't aware we were clashing, I have no desire to.

Nah. We still cool. Just throwing out practical solutions, keeping everyone safe..

Not the same thing, but I was advised 8 years ago by my doc not to drive due to an ear infection affecting my balance & making me giddy/prone to falling down... It was quite nice being chauffeured about. Infact (not usually in my nature.) I "milked" it for another week!

 

[Jaylee]

The main point I get from Vans' post Jaylee is that her consultant has apparently told her that it's OK to carry on driving and she appears to be doing so, ignorant of the fact that she is breaking the law and believing that the numbers are only for 'guidance' (post #7). Should she be unlucky enough to be involved in an incident where the Police attend and her fitness to drive is called into question - I wonder if her consultatnt will appear in court to back her up?

I don't think the forum is ganging up on Vans, but not attempting to correct the misconception would be wrong in my opinion.

Hi UR,

My intension was to "balance out" this whole thing.. & save a lot of "paperwork".
The "intention" to drive while not fit (think someone drunk with the keys & decides nope, ill leave the car at the pub/walk home.)
With someone in Vans position? Why not SORN the vehicle on the drive/garage then get confident with hypo awairness..
Leave the keys with the "landlord" or relative, further removing the "intention."
No chasing up the privelidge to drive once or if or when HA is under controll....?

I don't see any law broken...

I apreciate the concerns of other contributors/posters. Lol, believe or not. I got the same concern myself!

 

[urbanracer]

Hi UR,

My intension was to "balance out" this whole thing.. & save a lot of "paperwork".
The "intention" to drive while not fit (think someone drunk with the keys & decides nope, ill leave the car at the pub/walk home.)
With someone in Vans position? Why not SORN the vehicle on the drive/garage then get confident with hypo awairness..
Leave the keys with the "landlord" or relative, further removing the "intention."
No chasing up the privelidge to drive once or if or when HA is under controll....?

I don't see any law broken...

I apreciate the concerns of other contributors/posters. Lol, believe or not. I got the same concern myself!

A clear case of mis-direction m'lord!
A law has been broken if someone suffering from impaired HA fails to inform DVLA and surrender their licence, I don't see why this is a point of discussion? It has nothing to do with intention to drive.

The case for the prosecution rests - but we will probably have to agree to differ.

 

[Jaylee]

A clear case of mis-direction m'lord!
A law has been broken if someone suffering from impaired HA fails to inform DVLA and surrender their licence, I don't see why this is a point of discussion? It has nothing to do with intention to drive.

The case for the prosecution rests - but we will probably have to agree to differ.

It's a "point of discussion" because now on top of the worry of hypo awairness Vans may also feel like a "criminal."
Great support guys! Sensationalism.. Lovely!
I've already sorted one misunderstanding privately with a Star Wars reference...

Agreed.
The line for me Is drawn here..

 

[DaftThoughts]

Hi UR,

My intension was to "balance out" this whole thing.. & save a lot of "paperwork".
The "intention" to drive while not fit (think someone drunk with the keys & decides nope, ill leave the car at the pub/walk home.)
With someone in Vans position? Why not SORN the vehicle on the drive/garage then get confident with hypo awairness..
Leave the keys with the "landlord" or relative, further removing the "intention."
No chasing up the privelidge to drive once or if or when HA is under controll....?

I don't see any law broken...

I apreciate the concerns of other contributors/posters. Lol, believe or not. I got the same concern myself!

What if the 15 minute drive turns into a 45 minute one due to unforeseen events? What if their bloodsugar is on a downward trend but their meter says 6 at the time before getting into the car? Bloodsugar can drop crazily fast in just 10 minutes if you're already on a downward trend, and then you're driving with a hypo. Then what? And what do they do when they have to be somewhere that's an hour away, not 15? Do they still drive and risk other people?

I personally feel this is the equivalent of saying 'it's just a 10 minute trip, no need to wear your seat belt'. The law is the law, whether we find it silly or not. Conditions we carefully prepare for can change at the drop of a hat. Our bodies can throw off our bloodsugar randomly with no notice or warning or reason. We can't just assume things will be fine just because we haven't had a bad experience yet.

I don't want to be the (biking) victim of a driver who was overly confident but hypo unaware and ended up crashing because their body did something unpredictable. It's a law in the Netherlands too that if your diabetes impairs your ability to drive, you can't drive. Period. I don't care what someone does with their own body, but on the road we impact the lives of everyone we share the road with, and then some. We have to be responsible not just for ourselves in this case.

It bothers me greatly that I share the road with people who dismiss hypo unawareness so easily. I am one of the more vulnerable individuals sharing the road with them, and have enough close calls with people who are fully with it and not having hypos. It's pretty scary to think about.

 

[Jaylee]

What if the 15 minute drive turns into a 45 minute one due to unforeseen events? What if their bloodsugar is on a downward trend but their meter says 6 at the time before getting into the car? Bloodsugar can drop crazily fast in just 10 minutes if you're already on a downward trend, and then you're driving with a hypo. Then what? And what do they do when they have to be somewhere that's an hour away, not 15? Do they still drive and risk other people?

I personally feel this is the equivalent of saying 'it's just a 10 minute trip, no need to wear your seat belt'. The law is the law, whether we find it silly or not. Conditions we carefully prepare for can change at the drop of a hat. Our bodies can throw off our bloodsugar randomly with no notice or warning or reason. We can't just assume things will be fine just because we haven't had a bad experience yet.

I don't want to be the (biking) victim of a driver who was overly confident but hypo unaware and ended up crashing because their body did something unpredictable. It's a law in the Netherlands too that if your diabetes impairs your ability to drive, you can't drive. Period. I don't care what someone does with their own body, but on the road we impact the lives of everyone we share the road with, and then some. We have to be responsible not just for ourselves in this case.

It bothers me greatly that I share the road with people who dismiss hypo unawareness so easily. I am one of the more vulnerable individuals sharing the road with them, and have enough close calls with people who are fully with it and not having hypos. It's pretty scary to think about.

Yes, I am awair of the law... Pretty much the same across the EU. (Such as it still is.) I worked there as a musician for 16 years... I've always tested within legal perameters on my journey in your country.. However. Have you any idea due to the genre of my music what I have witnessed rolling into the backstage loading area & main car park? Basically "Bongs" on wheels! Band members or festival goers literally falling out of vehicles wrecked before the gig even starts....
By the same token, drunk drivers too!

So, as a cyclist you mentioned earlier it's "hard to detect a hypo."??? Where do you fancy heading with this....?


Edited by a mod to remove personal comments.

 

[tigger]

As someone who had their licence not renewed for a while for overnight hypos requiring assistance (ticked the wrong box cos of sleeplessness due to newborn twins -had actually only had 1 in the year but got my dates confused) i have sympathy with anyone concerned with losing their licence as it was a complete PITA not having it. I had full daytime awareness both at the time of the hypos and most definitely when deprived of my licence as they were pregnancy related. Saying which I would rather have the dvla suspend licences on overly strict grounds then risk having drivers at the wheel in the grip of a hypo killing me and my kids. That includes me.

I had episodes that pregnancy in early pregnancy where my blood sugar would drop rapidly. It's a feature of early pregnancy. Since that was my 2nd pregnancy and i knew it only lasted for the first trimester i took the personal decision not to drive for that period until i was confident the rapid drops had stopped (i hadn't passed my test during my 1st pregnancy ). Now having a libre i can see the times i'm on a sudden (but not 7mmol!) drop and some of them are due to stress. As any driver knows driving is often not a stress free experience. I take my precautions based on what level i am, eating, waiting and now checking my libre as well to be sure of the arrow. @Jaylee I also have a pump which means i have the ability to have a much straighter line with less spikes if basal and bolus are set well.

@vans driving is a privilege and a responsibility. There are people out there, not diabetics, who treat it lightly. The dvla is not even handed. I have a friend who experienced sudden fainting in pregnancy at the wheel and kept her licence without restriction. I thought that was incredibly irresponsible of her and double standards by the dvla. It doesn't change the fact that we're all responsible for our actions and no one wants to have something awful on their conscience. Please think carefully about what you do. Even if you don't want to surrender your licence (and who does?!?) consider a break until you've regained awareness. As you can see above it can be done.

 

[tigger]

hey iv been reading on the forum that some diabetic type 1s sufferers hypo awareness has gone and they carnt tell if there going hypo sugar going low and feel no symptoms of going low. can your hypo awareness comeback?.has anyone experienced there hypo unawareness go away and and there hypo awareness come back?.

And just to add you can regain nighttime ie asleep awareness too. Running slightly higher is the key. A pump in pregnancy was a massive help too.

 

[diamondnostril]

I think those people who have accused @vans of doing something illegal are incorrect and being very unfair.

It states on the DVLA guidance:

Impaired awareness of hypoglycaemia
The Secretary of State’s Honorary Medical Advisory Panel on Driving and Diabetes has defined impaired awareness of hypoglycaemia for Group 1 drivers as ‘an inability to detect the onset of hypoglycaemia because of total absence of warning symptoms’. Group 2 drivers must have full awareness of hypoglycaemia.

The earlier Posts from @vans (#3, #6) clearly state that she does get warning symptoms. This is not ‘a total absence’ and therefore does not fit to the definition.

On the DIAB1 form we are asked the following questions:

3a Do you know what the symptoms of hypoglycaemia are?

3e Do you get warning symptoms of hypoglycaemia?

3f If YES to 3e, are you always aware?

From the information given in earlier Posts, it seems like @vans can honestly answer Yes to each of these questions.

You may personally not like that somebody who gets warning symptoms at a lower level than you is on the road. But that does not mean they are breaking the law. As far as I can see, @vans complies with the DVLA regulations given above.

My feeling is that somebody who gets warning symptoms at 4.0 and loss of brain function at 3.0 is no safer than somebody who gets warning symptoms at 3.0 and loss of brain function at 2.0 (and so on).

Perhaps that is why the DIAB1 form, and the DVLA guidance documents, give no information about the level at which the warning symptoms must appear – they only state that you must know the symptoms, and that the symptoms must always occur. Medical professionals may have their own rules and thresholds on this matter, but the DVLA does not offer any.

Based on the information given in this thread, I’m very happy to share the road with @vans. She can answer all the DIAB1 questions honestly; she has agreed to have a measure of >= 4.0 before every 2 hours of driving (implicitly, by completing the form); she has discussed the situation with her Consultant; her Consultant has agreed that she is safe to drive. She is complying completely with the letter of the law, and is meanwhile trying to improve her situation regarding the spirit of the law. I think we should applaud, not criticize. I bet there are many others who do not answer the DIAB1 questions honestly, and/or do not honestly discuss things with their Consultant.

Regards
Antony

 

[mist]

Interesting, I certainly don't suffer from this, my body loves to let me know when I'm low.

 

[DaftThoughts]

Yes, I am awair of the law.... Pretty much the same across the EU. (Such as it still is.) I worked there as a musician for 16 years... I've always tested within legal perameters on my journey in your country.. However. Have you any idea due to the genre of my music what I have witnessed rolling into the backstage loading area & main car park? Basically "Bongs" on wheels! Band members or festival goers literally falling out of vehicles wrecked before the gig even starts....
By the same token, drunk drivers too!

So, as a cyclist you mentioned earlier it's "hard to detect a hypo."??? Where do you fancy heading with this....?

I don't see how weed consumption is relevant to my statement, or this topic, other than being a stereotypical jab at me for the country I live in. So I'm going to ignore that part, just like you ignored most of my post.

Actually, I said harder. When I'm already sweating and breathing faster from the exercise I can't rely on that as a symptom like when I'm stationary and not exercising, can I? That doesn't make me hypo unaware - I still get other symptoms. I still test and eat before I leave if I must. I've never had a dangerous situation while on my bicycle because I am responsible when I go out in traffic and because I can intervene in time when my bloodsugar drops. That's where I'm heading with this. It's an example of how it should be done, and why I think it's appalling that there are so many people who don't seem to think this a necessity.


Edited by a mod to,reflect quoted edited post.

 

[vans]

Please think carefully about what you do. Even if you don't want to surrender your licence (and who does?!?) consider a break until you've regained awareness. As you can see above it can be done.

Thanks @tigger. I am doing this.

FWIW, I am not hypo unaware. I do get symptoms. I am working on increasing my awareness levels and will not drive where at all possible. Thanks for your input and/or support