Statins, yes or no?

HelenMW

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77
Type of diabetes
Type 2
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Spiders, peas and most of all diabetes!
Had a blood test the other day as I'm showing signs of neuropothy in my hands and arms. Also looked like the Bell's Palsy I had last year was coming back. I was diagnosed with the diabetes when the Bell's Palsy struck on New Years Day last year. Since then I have lost 3 and a half stone and got my average blood glucose down to 5.5 by following LCHF religiously for a year. Absolutely gutted this has happened and I've been put on emergency steroids which has driven my glucose sky-high. Saw these results on line this morning and I'm scared they are going to try and put me on statins. Thing is my brother died from undetected coronary artery disease at 52 (I'm 55) and another brother died at 62 of heart problems but complicated by alcoholism (I don't drink at all)


Test result Serum lipid levels Report, Abnormal, Make an appointment to see nurse, Other (qrisk 14, consider statins if appropriate)
Coded entry Serum triglyceride levels 1.7 mmol/L
Coded entry Serum HDL cholesterol level 1.5 mmol/L
Coded entry Serum lipid levels
Coded entry Serum cholesterol level 6.2 mmol/L
Coded entry Serum LDL cholesterol level 3.9 mmol/L
Coded entry Serum cholesterol/HDL ratio 4.1 mmol/mmol
Coded entry Serum non high density lipoprotein cholesterol level 4.7 mmol/L

I'm really scared. Don't know if statins are a good idea or not. Went on the Heart Foundation website and did their calculation and showed my heart age as 72! I really believe this diet is the healthiest I've ever followed. I admit I don't do much exercise but I bought a fitbit only the other day and have started to walk a bit more.

Any suggestions anyone?
 

Bluetit1802

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25,216
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Type 2 (in remission!)
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Have you tried the calculation here?

http://www.hughcalc.org/chol-si.php

If it were me, I would make the appointment with the nurse and ask for 3 more months to try and improve things before taking statins. The levels aren't too bad, and more exercise should help plus extra oily fish or omega 3. HOWEVER, none of us can really advise you what to do. It's your decision, but do as much research as you can.
 

HelenMW

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Type of diabetes
Type 2
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Tablets (oral)
Dislikes
Spiders, peas and most of all diabetes!
Have you tried the calculation here?

http://www.hughcalc.org/chol-si.php

If it were me, I would make the appointment with the nurse and ask for 3 more months to try and improve things before taking statins. The levels aren't too bad, and more exercise should help plus extra oily fish or omega 3. HOWEVER, none of us can really advise you what to do. It's your decision, but do as much research as you can.
No I hadn't tried that, just had a look and it's calmed me down a bit. Very mixed picture but not all bad. I really like your suggestion of asking for time to change things. Increase my exercise and oily fish intake - sounds like something I could do. Thanks x
 

AndBreathe

Master
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@HelenMW - Statins are always a bit of a hot topic on these forums, and of course there are as many views as there are posters.

As Blue has suggested, it's useful using the hughcalc utility or something similar to reach a little further understanding. There are so many factors to all of this, gender, and obviously family history would want to be taken into account, for sure.

Along the way, in my own research, I discovered Professor Sikaris, who is incredibly skilled in getting complex messages across in much simpler language. His YouTube videos, mainly presentations from conferences, are informative, and personally, I found them very enlightening.

You might find this one, or one of his others helpful to you:

 
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HelenMW

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77
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Dislikes
Spiders, peas and most of all diabetes!
Thanks everyone, I'm feeling much calmer this morning and have researched a lot more and got my head around the good and bad cholesterol more. I've developed a plan of action:
Cutting down on bacon, butter and cream
Increasing avocado, oily fish and olive oil intake
I'm lucky enough to have a workplace gym, which is free for me as a registered first aider so I'm going to book an induction next week where I can discuss all my health issues and work out a gentle exercise routine, preferably walking on the treadmill
Might even take up swimming - something I've always enjoyed but can be quite expensive

If this doesn't help I'm considering adding a bowl of porridge - plain Oats so Simple so it's a measured dose - for breakfast and then remaining LCHF for the rest of the day.

Does any of this sound sensible? I'd be really grateful for any advice anyone can offer
Thanks
 
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AndBreathe

Master
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Thanks everyone, I'm feeling much calmer this morning and have researched a lot more and got my head around the good and bad cholesterol more. I've developed a plan of action:
Cutting down on bacon, butter and cream
Increasing avocado, oily fish and olive oil intake
I'm lucky enough to have a workplace gym, which is free for me as a registered first aider so I'm going to book an induction next week where I can discuss all my health issues and work out a gentle exercise routine, preferably walking on the treadmill
Might even take up swimming - something I've always enjoyed but can be quite expensive

If this doesn't help I'm considering adding a bowl of porridge - plain Oats so Simple so it's a measured dose - for breakfast and then remaining LCHF for the rest of the day.

Does any of this sound sensible? I'd be really grateful for any advice anyone can offer
Thanks

Do you have a blood glucose meter to test your own blood? If you do, you may want to have a close look at what porridge does to your numbers. Many find it a tricky breakfast, despite what all the guidelines say. For many it pushes their numbers just too high.

Many T2s with insulin resistance find their tolerance of carbs is lowest in the mornings, but improves as the day goes on, so a carb hit from the oats can be irksome.

If you don't have a meter, it would be a good investment.
 
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Art Of Flowers

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Messages
956
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
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Watch the film Statin Nation over on https://www.dietdoctor.com. You may be skocked to find that a large percentage of people have bad side effects from statins and that they do not increase life expectancy for people without diagnosed heart disease.

To watch the film (and the second film Statin Nation 2) you have to become a member of dietdoctor.com, but the first month is free and you can cancel at any time. I watched Statin Nation yesterday and was deeply shocked about statins and the damage they were doing.
 
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HelenMW

Well-Known Member
Messages
77
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Dislikes
Spiders, peas and most of all diabetes!
Do you have a blood glucose meter to test your own blood? If you do, you may want to have a close look at what porridge does to your numbers. Many find it a tricky breakfast, despite what all the guidelines say. For many it pushes their numbers just too high.

Many T2s with insulin resistance find their tolerance of carbs is lowest in the mornings, but improves as the day goes on, so a carb hit from the oats can be irksome.

If you don't have a meter, it would be a good investment.
Thanks for replying. Yes I do have a meter. I've kind of put it away for the next 8 days while on steroids as the numbers were so upsetting on day 1 of taking them. Would I maybe be better to introduce a few extra carbs later in the day? I looked at the advice from diet doctor and he recommended upping by about 20 to 50 per day but no advice as to what to eat or when.
 

HelenMW

Well-Known Member
Messages
77
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Dislikes
Spiders, peas and most of all diabetes!
Watch the film Statin Nation over on https://www.dietdoctor.com. You may be skocked to find that a large percentage of people have bad side effects from statins and that they do not increase life expectancy for people without diagnosed heart disease.

To watch the film (and the second film Statin Nation 2) you have to become a member of dietdoctor.com, but the first month is free and you can cancel at any time. I watched Statin Nation yesterday and was deeply shocked about statins and the damage they were doing.

Thanks, I've seen these films. I'm just not sure my DSN has! My GP practice is like something out of the dark ages. They won't prescribe test strips etc and believe in nothing more than annual check ups. On first diagnosis the DSN told me all about eating carbs with every meal and the plate method. Nothing since. I'm just worried that if they advise statins I won't be able to put up a good case for not having them. Also with my family history there's a little nagging fear that maybe I do need them but I want to control it on my own as I have with the blood sugar. So frustrating! Thanks for your input x
 
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AndBreathe

Master
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I reversed my Type 2
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Thanks for replying. Yes I do have a meter. I've kind of put it away for the next 8 days while on steroids as the numbers were so upsetting on day 1 of taking them. Would I maybe be better to introduce a few extra carbs later in the day? I looked at the advice from diet doctor and he recommended upping by about 20 to 50 per day but no advice as to what to eat or when.

Whilst my post may talk about "some", "many", or even "most", that doesn't necessarily mean you. Frustratingly sometimes, we are all different and what works for me may be totally inappropriate for you.

To be honest, just based on a reduced carb diet, with plenty of veg, I have never found it tricky to be 20gr or over, but I do love my veg.

Whilst I can, to an extent, understand why you might put your meter away when on steroids, it might be more helpful to just look at the numbers in acceptance that's what they are whilst you're on treatment. Not looking at your meter doesn't mean the numbers are lower. I don't mean that to sound glib, but if you learn that the steroids are increasing your blood scores by 1, 2, 10 or 20, just take that into account when interpreting the number on the screen.

These things are what they are.
 

HelenMW

Well-Known Member
Messages
77
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Dislikes
Spiders, peas and most of all diabetes!
Whilst my post may talk about "some", "many", or even "most", that doesn't necessarily mean you. Frustratingly sometimes, we are all different and what works for me may be totally inappropriate for you.

To be honest, just based on a reduced carb diet, with plenty of veg, I have never found it tricky to be 20gr or over, but I do love my veg.

Whilst I can, to an extent, understand why you might put your meter away when on steroids, it might be more helpful to just look at the numbers in acceptance that's what they are whilst you're on treatment. Not looking at your meter doesn't mean the numbers are lower. I don't mean that to sound glib, but if you learn that the steroids are increasing your blood scores by 1, 2, 10 or 20, just take that into account when interpreting the number on the screen.

These things are what they are.

You're right of course and I'd just about got to that place in my thinking too! Think I'll take readings around my meals today and as you say just accept what must be! I also love my veg so maybe I might increase that as an easier fix. More carrots and swede etc, which at the moment is more of a weekly treat. I'm due my anuual blood test on 23rd March - the HBAC or whatever it's called, which is obviously going to be unreflective of my efforts so I'm going to request either a postponement or a repeat after I've been steroid-free for 3 months. Seems only fair!
 

AndBreathe

Master
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HelenMW - I'm always going to be the one with the contrarian view, but in your shoes, I'd have my HbA1c when it's due, then you will see the impact of the steroids (just another piece of knowledge, not speculation). Again, not knowing doesn't mean it isn't happening. If the score were not a happy number, I'd state my disappointment, citing the steroids and ask my Doc for a repeat test three months later. Then you will see how much it has come down- the real impact (unless you make other changes.

It is what it is, but knowledge is power. No?
 

HelenMW

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Messages
77
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Dislikes
Spiders, peas and most of all diabetes!
HelenMW - I'm always going to be the one with the contrarian view, but in your shoes, I'd have my HbA1c when it's due, then you will see the impact of the steroids (just another piece of knowledge, not speculation). Again, not knowing doesn't mean it isn't happening. If the score were not a happy number, I'd state my disappointment, citing the steroids and ask my Doc for a repeat test three months later. Then you will see how much it has come down- the real impact (unless you make other changes.

It is what it is, but knowledge is power. No?
Yes you're right. Just so disappointed as I was hoping to come off the Metformin this time. Our GP practice is so budget-focussed that they may not agree to a repeat test but I'll try my best to persuade them. I had a test done on first diagnosis and was on statins at the time so the nurse suggested repeating it but the receptionist rang me up the day before the repeat test was due and had a go at me for making unnecessary appointments. Still went ahead though and that's when they discharged me for 12 months with a reading of 6.7
 
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Bluetit1802

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25,216
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Type 2 (in remission!)
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Yes you're right. Just so disappointed as I was hoping to come off the Metformin this time. Our GP practice is so budget-focussed that they may not agree to a repeat test but I'll try my best to persuade them. I had a test done on first diagnosis and was on statins at the time so the nurse suggested repeating it but the receptionist rang me up the day before the test was due and had a go at me for making unnecessary appointments. Still went ahead though and that's when they discharged me for 12 months with a reading of 6.7

You should have been on 3 monthly blood tests initially, then 6 months until such time as your levels are stable and within target, and your meds are OK. This is especially important for people on steroids.

https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/ng28/chapter/1-Recommendations#blood-glucose-management-2


I have been diagnosed since January 2014. Since June 2014 all my HbA1c results have been in the pre-diabetic range or non-diabetic range. I am not on any medication. I still have 6 monthly blood tests for the full lot (Glucose, cholesterol, lipids, kidney, liver, bones etc) and all come back within standard. I see the nurse annually.

My friend who takes long term steroids and isn't diabetic has an HbA1c thrown in with her other blood tests every 3 months.
 

Daibell

Master
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12,642
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Insulin
Hi. Yes, statins come up regularly on these forums. It's a subject with so many experts out there and mostly they disagree with each other. I wouldn't take much notice of the BHF as they recommend the Eatwell Guide for our diet so obviously haven't a clue! You need cholesterol for body repair so it must not go too low. Yes, it appears the LDL/HDL ratio is important and yours could be better. Much depends on your genes etc rather than what you eat. Some say eating saturated fat is no more important than your liver in dumping bad cholesterol around your body. I have a tub of Proactiv each day (the lower sugar version!) as well as some statins. I'm lucky as statins don't give me any problems. I've no idea if the Proactiv really works. If you want to be amused or depressed have a read of Malcom Kendrick's two books 'The great cholesterol con' and 'Doctoring Data'. He's a UK GP.
 

HelenMW

Well-Known Member
Messages
77
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Dislikes
Spiders, peas and most of all diabetes!
  1. You should have been on 3 monthly blood tests initially, then 6 months until such time as your levels are stable and within target, and your meds are OK. This is especially important for people on steroids.

    https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/ng28/chapter/1-Recommendations#blood-glucose-management-2


    I have been diagnosed since January 2014. Since June 2014 all my HbA1c results have been in the pre-diabetic range or non-diabetic range. I am not on any medication. I still have 6 monthly blood tests for the full lot (Glucose, cholesterol, lipids, kidney, liver, bones etc) and all come back within standard. I see the nurse annually.

    My friend who takes long term steroids and isn't diabetic has an HbA1c thrown in with her other blood tests every 3 months.
  2. I've always suspected I was getting a poor deal. Was diagnosed in hospital on New Years Day 2016, when admitted for Bells Palsy. BS was 20.7. Put on steroids and discharged on 8th Jan. Had a blood test at GP surgery on 12 Jan and BS was 12.something. Then this was repeated on 24 March, after the argument with the receptionist who rang while I was recovering from eye surgery. BS was 6.7 so they said I wasn't to go back for a year. I was pleased in a way that they said I was doing so well I didn't need to be closely monitored but always wondered what sort of service other people were getting
 

Bluetit1802

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25,216
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
Treatment type
Diet only
  1. I've always suspected I was getting a poor deal. Was diagnosed in hospital on New Years Day 2016, when admitted for Bells Palsy. BS was 20.7. Put on steroids and discharged on 8th Jan. Had a blood test at GP surgery on 12 Jan and BS was 12.something. Then this was repeated on 24 March, after the argument with the receptionist who rang while I was recovering from eye surgery. BS was 6.7 so they said I wasn't to go back for a year. I was pleased in a way that they said I was doing so well I didn't need to be closely monitored but always wondered what sort of service other people were getting

I think you are getting a raw deal. Why not copy out those NICE guidelines and show them to your doctor?
 

slinkimalinki

Well-Known Member
Messages
97
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Thanks, I've seen these films. I'm just not sure my DSN has! My GP practice is like something out of the dark ages. They won't prescribe test strips etc and believe in nothing more than annual check ups. On first diagnosis the DSN told me all about eating carbs with every meal and the plate method. Nothing since. I'm just worried that if they advise statins I won't be able to put up a good case for not having them. Also with my family history there's a little nagging fear that maybe I do need them but I want to control it on my own as I have with the blood sugar. So frustrating! Thanks for your input x
Just because the prescribe statins, doesn't mean you have to take them, if you are still unsure. Ask for another 3 months, if they refuse, take the prescription but don't get it filled. Impose your own 3 month wait and then go for another test and see what the results say.
 

HelenMW

Well-Known Member
Messages
77
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Dislikes
Spiders, peas and most of all diabetes!
Thanks for your input everyone. Had an emotional appointment with the doctor yesterday and have agreed to start the statins! I really want to be Wonder Woman and sort everything out for myself but have been persuaded not to take unnecessary risks. I will continue to improve my exercise levels and work on my general health xxx
 
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