Statins

cugila

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carty said:
Ken
Just to point out that these ingredients are also in Glucophage and probably in other meds too so not just in alternative meds.but Google is an amazing tool isnt it
CAROL

Yes I know what is in many drugs, trouble is when something is described as healthy and it isn't easy to find the info about what is in them I wonder why ? I'm a sceptic.......I also like to see all the information about something available, not just what the sellers want me to see.

The ingredients that are also in Metformin (Glucophage) are pretty non-descript. It is some of the other ingredients I take issue with. A drug is just that....it doesn't portray itself as being healthy like most of the supplements do, when they actually contain the same things. They are also available on prescription and do a good job, without the expense to Diabetic's. I never like to pay out more than I need to if I can.

As for Google.....I wouldn't know. I don't use it. My sources are from elsewhere. I have access to much reference material to assist my research. :wink:

Ken
 

Franky69uk

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Hi Everyone.. I'm on 1/ 400mg Simvastatin daily. My last cholestrol check produced a reading of 3.8 which according to the practice indicates that my "medicaton is working correctly". In fairness they are at the moment unaware that I have radically altered my lifestyle with regard to eating and exercise both of which I have positvely changed in order to both lose weight and reduce BG levels,
My concern is based around the suggestion that statins cause constipation. In my case I suffer really badly from it. Going to the toilet is a nightmare that I really dread. I've tried many different remedies to no real effect. Spoke to the doc about it and he prescribed Manevac which after using most of the tin has had little effect. he appears to think that medication is not the problem but I'm just wondering if there is any real evidence that the problem can be a side effect of statins. I am really tempted to stop taking Simvastatin. Anyone have advice?
 

IanD

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Franky69uk said:
I'm just wondering if there is any real evidence that the problem can be a side effect of statins. I am really tempted to stop taking Simvastatin. Anyone have advice?
I stopped taking simv because of muscle pains - I was better in a few days. My Dr confirmed the muscle pain side effect & hasn't offered other statins. I now rely on reduced carb, oat bran & special marg for chol control. Last test 4.8. It was 7.6 10 years ago.

If you suspect simv, then stop it for a time - you won't suffer an immediate buildup of cholesterol.
 

cugila

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All Laxatives are not the same.

Manevac is a stimulant laxative that increases intestinal motility and can often cause abdominal cramps, they should be avoided in intestinal obstruction. It really is only speeding the process up rather than softening the stools which is probably what you need. If they don't work then an Osmotic Laxative should really be considered. Something that softens the stools and allows an easier bowel movement.

It may be that what you have been prescribed just isn't suitable for you and your particular type of constipation. This one also isn't really advisable for DIabetic's because of the sugar content. Ask for a sugar free laxative. One that softens the stools rather than one that just encourages the bowel to just empty. Movicol is a good example........an Osmotic laxative.

There are four types of laxative and each type works in a different way.

Bulk-forming laxatives
Bulk-forming laxatives contain fibre and act in the same way as the dietary fibre that you eat.
Bulk-forming laxatives increase the bulk of your faeces, making them heavier and softer. The extra bulk encourages your bowel to contract and move your faeces through so that it can be passed.
Bulk-forming laxatives can take a few days before they are effective. They are taken by mouth (orally) as powders, granules, or tablets.

Stimulant laxatives
Stimulant laxatives speed up the movements of your bowel. They usually take between six and 12 hours to work. Stimulant laxatives come in many different forms, including tablets and liquids, which are swallowed. They are also available as suppositories and enemas that are inserted into your rectum (back passage).

Osmotic laxatives
Osmotic laxatives help to make your faeces softer by increasing the amount of water in your bowels. Like bulk-forming laxatives, they usually work after a few days.
Osmotic laxatives come in several different forms, including powders, liquids and enemas.

Stool softener laxatives
Stool softener laxatives work in a similar way to osmotic laxatives; they add water to your faeces to lubricate it, making it more slippery and easier to pass. They are taken as capsules, or enemas, and usually take one to two days to work.

There are also many other things that can cause constipation, you really need to ask for a referral if what the GP prescribes isn't working. You shouldn't have to suffer in this way. You should drink plenty of water, at least 2 litres daily and eat fiber rich foods such as fruit, vegetables and cereals as well. Exercise and upping fats sometimes (not too often) also can help. They all help the digestion and the GI processes work better.

Here is the link to more information about constipation and possible causes:
http://www.cks.nhs.uk/patient_informati ... laxatives#

As for the Simvastatin, as with most Statins they may cause Gastro intestinal side effects, not specifically constipation. However I wouldn't advise you to stop this medication without first discussing this with your GP. It is quite possible that a different type of laxative as listed above may cure the constipation. Do not take over the counter laxatives either. Get this investigated further.

Ken
 

Franky69uk

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Thanks very much Cugila for the very very informative post.. I really appreciate the information you have passed on..and will make a further appointment to see the doc at which I will also ask aobut the statins. My thanks also to the tohers who posted on the topic..plenty of input which is so important..
 

ebygum

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I would be intereted on any info about plant sterols as well. I was told to take statins when I was first diagnosed, not knowing any better i did but soon after started to experience bad joint pain and 'tired legs'. Thought nothing about it at first as I was moving about ok. However, when this turned into sleepless nights and having to wedge a pillow between my legs I did the usual and started Googling. The pain was a known side effect. I immediately stopped taking them (I'd only been taking them for about 6 weeks) and within the week the pain had gone. I've not bothered since, yes my cholestorol is a bit high so I should try to bring it down (interestingly, exercise produces the good cholestorol to combat the bad if you didn't know). I use the Flora Pro-Active (how expensive is it??? ) and have a bowl of porridge every day - which I am sure helps.
 

cugila

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Here is a link to a fact sheet about Cholesterol Lowering: Foods with added plant sterols,

http://www.food.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/ ... tsheet.pdf

Search for the information on the Net as there is much that is conflicting about whether or not they do any good. Make your own mind up from what you read or is posted here.

Ken.
 

griffy

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Statins!

I'm on my third week of Metformin and the doc says he wants to put me on statins in 2 weeks time once he's checked there are no side-effects from the Metformin (which there aren't). My cholesterol was 9 (gulp) so I fully realise something has to happen quickly. I've lost 9lbs since I was diagnosed 3 weeks ago (seems a lot long than that!) and my exercise has gone up quite a lot! :D

Am I right to presume that if I take the statins and have negative side-effects that I could come straight off? Do the side-effects stay or do they fade as you get used to the drugs? I'm wondering if I should talk to the GP about a 3-month reprieve from the statins whilst I try the diet/exercise plus take Vit C (never a bad thing anyway in my book) plus plant extracts I've read about on other posts here.

My diet post-diagnosis was reasonable bad and I need to lose about 4 stone :? so I'm not surprised it's come back to bite me and currently I'm 50/50 about whether I'll take the statins in order to get things under control or do the 3-month diet/exercise route to see if it works.

Any advice or thoughts would be appreciated (thou I'd prefer not to hear the horror tales about statins as have read a fair few and don't want to be scared anymore ta!).
Griffy.
 

IanD

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Re: Statins!

I was 7.6 on diagnosis & my Dr was happy for me to try the diet approach. I came down to 5 - 5.5 with Benecol & oat bran. Reduced carb brought it below 5.

Dr did try me with simvastatin, & later, niacin. Side affects were unacceptable.

I would try diet & see how you get on. Have you other heart risk factors?
 

Talos

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Re: Statins!

I was diagnosed about 3 months ago and within the first month put on Metaformin and statins, I was already on blood pressure tabs, altho the side effects of all these were a bit dire, they soon wore off ( about 2-3 days), I dont suffer any now, but untill my next blood test I have no idea if they are working. My advice would be to try them, and see the results for yourself, I have found the more I hear about side effects the more I look for them, Try the medication first, and if you have a reaction then look it up to see if others have suffered the same.
 

Magill

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Re: Statins!

Hi Griffy - glad to see the Metformin isn't causing you any problems.
I was put on a statin at the same time as Metformin. My start point was 6.7. First statin was Simvastatin (which seems to be the first statin of choice) 10mg but the doc didn't think that was doing it's job quickly enough so he upped it to 20 mg. Unfortunately that was enough to start night cramps in the muscles in my legs. I already have permanent leg cramp due to the nerve damage from my spinal cord injury so getting cramp on top of the resident cramp was not funny!!
They promptly changed me to Atorvastatin and I have no problems with that one (and my last test was 4.7 with the HDL at 3 and LDL 1.7). Prior to the statin the LDL was winning.
I guess what I am saying is once you start the statin, if it doesn't agree with you the docs tend to change you to another statin. Also statins are not restricted to diabetics. The docs seem to be prescribing it as a matter of course once you get to a certain age.....
My GP explained that he would rather get the cholesterol down first and then review the medication later. We did try a reduction from 20 mg to 10 mg at one point but the LDL started to rise again. He's going to look at it again later this year with the diet changes I've made.
Just remember it's your body - talk it over with the GP. They can always start you on a low dose. My GP knows that if he wants to introduce another pill to the mix then he has to explain to me exactly why I have to do this. I don't just accept "take another pill". Maybe I'm lucky but they are always prepared to listen to my views.
 

adm

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Re: Statins!

I'd definitely take the Statin and see how you get on.....

My Cholesterol was 6.9 a month ago, I ended up in hospital for a coronary angioplasty and they initially put me on Simvastatin (as it's the cheapest one to the NHS). I had no side effects with that, but my consultant decided to change it to Atorvastatin, and I've had no side effects of that either...

I'm also on various BP meds - Atenolol, Perindopril & Amlodipine, plus Plavix and Aspirin for long term after-angio care. I feel like a wlaking pharmacy, but on the positive side I have lost two stone, feel fantastic and am more active than I've ever been - swimming and cycling most days. My BG is now normally under 6, and my BP is now lower than 120/80 almost all of the time.

No side effects from any of the drugs....I'm waiting for my next blood test to see how it's all going, but I did a Boots home cholesterol test the other day and that said 3.9! I doubt the accuracy however....

Anyway - take the drugs and see if they have side effects. If they do, then ask to change them. There's little point refusing them on the basis that they might have side effects as they could just save your life.

Also do the diet (low carb) and exercise thing too - as if your Cholesterol is 9 and you are 4 stone overweight then you have a very high cardiac risk. If you smoke, STOP NOW. 25 years of smoking, bad diet and inactivity almost killed me last month......and if you have the right mindset, these are all fairly easy to change - and it's well worth it!

Good luck!
 

cliffep

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My cholesterol is fine also (3.5) but my doc put me on statins (Simvastatin) "because it is recommended for diabetics" I felt totally knackered was falling asleep during the day/ after work all the time really. I googled statins and discovered that in the USA they prescribe co-enzyme Q10 along with statins. Statins affect the mitochondria which are used in body-energy production -
Inhibition by statins and beta blockers:
Coenzyme Q10 shares a common biosynthetic pathway with cholesterol. The synthesis of an intermediary precursor of coenzyme Q10, mevalonate, is inhibited by some beta blockers, blood pressure-lowering medication,and statins, a class of cholesterol-lowering drugsStatins can reduce serum levels of coenzyme Q10 by up to 40%. ome research suggests the logical option of supplementation with coenzyme Q10 as a routine adjunct to any treatment that may reduce endogenous production of coenzyme Q10, based on a balance of likely benefit against very small risk

I asked my doctor to prescribe co-enzyme Q10 with the statins and he said we don't do that in the UK. I said OK I am coming off statins then as I don't think I need them. I have felt so much better since, no longer so tired. Doctors seem to be handing out statins to all and sundry, I think there must be pressure form drugs companies. Anyhow, like you I don't believe in taking medication unless I have to. Don't follow my advice though, do your reasearch and ask your own doctor before you change your meds - we're all different.
 

griffy

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Re: Statins!

Dear all,

Thank-you so much for all your replies, they've been very helpful and quite motivating. I have decided that I'll go with the statins and see what happens, I tend to be able to think positively so I'll just blank any thoughts of side-effects as much as possible and see what happens.

Although I don't smoke and never have, my weight and high blood pressure plus reading your stories has made me realise that it's best to get the cholesterol down and then consider what next.

You're all lovely, thanks so much for giving me direction :D

Griffy x
 

Valen

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I'm Type 2, diagnosed about 3 years ago and getting NO HELP from my GP practice. When I was called in for regular Blood Pressure checks the nurse started taking blood tests as well. I was never told why and never given the results until I was advised one day that I had diabetes. At first I was merely told that I was far too fat and must lose weight to control the diabetes and refused access to a dietician.
After a year I was put on Metformin and insisted on an appointment with a dietician which finally was grudgingly permitted. The dietican merely told me to 'eat healthily' and to lose weight and advised me that over the next 12/18 months I could expect my GP to increase the metformin dosage and then after that I would be put on insulin. This was explained to me as being the normal progression so far as my GP practice was concerned.
Incidentally, the practice nurse, who deals with diabetic patients, sent my first prescription for metformin to the local chemist in February 2008 and the first I knew about it was when I went in for blood tests in July and was asked if I was taking the metformin daily as my glucose levels weren't showing any marked reduction. As I had not been in the chemists since the start of the year how was I supposed to know I was meant to be on medication? This just about sums up the level of care I get from my GP practice.
Anyway, I have since had my Metformin changed for a higher level of Glucophage as the nurse decided that I was probably incapable of managing to take one tablet in the morning plus one at night. Now it is just one huge tablet in the morning... however, when I went to collect my BP pills and Glucophage in April the pharmacist in my local chemists handed me a note from the GP's nurse telling me to come to the surgery about being put on statins as it is their practise to put all diabetic patients on statins.
My cholesterol level in March 2010 was 4.1 (taken at a Nuffield Centre during a Health MOT arranged by the gym/health club) - I do not like taking pills, my aim in spite of the nurse at my pratice is to reduce my medication and hopefully come off some/all of it if possible not to increase it. Can anybody please tell me if it is necessary to take statins with a level of 4.1 JUST BECAUSE I have diabetes??
Yours despairingly, Valen
 

Magill

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Valen
It depends on the split - 4.1 may seem fine but not if the LDL is at say 3 and HDL 1.1 If the HDL is the higher then its a different matter.
One thing I would say is of I were you I would be changing to another practice.
 

griffy

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Dear all,

My other half found this interesting piece on Statins on http://www.netdoctor.co.uk which I felt gave a good non-alarmist look at Statins and gave some interesting facts on how Statins can benefit Diabetics who don't even have high cholesterol:

How effective are statins for people with diabetes?
Statins lower cholesterol, but would they make a difference for people with diabetes? Two major studies investigated the benefits.

In both, the effects of a daily dose of a statin versus no treatment was compared in people with diabetes.

Collaborative Atorvastatin Diabetes Study (CARDS)
This study involved nearly 3000 people with Type 2 diabetes aged 40-75.

It looked at the benefits of taking a 10mg dose of atorvastatin daily.

None of the participants had heart disease at the start of the trial, but they did have an extra risk factor for developing it, such as smoking, high blood pressure, diabetic retinopathy or protein in the urine indicating diabetic kidney disease.

For those taking the statin, the risk of heart attack reduced by 37 per cent and stroke by 48 per cent.

These benefits were seen regardless of age, sex or whether the cholesterol level was high or low.

The trial's success meant it was halted two years early.

The Heart Protection Study (HPS)
The HPS study involved nearly 6000 people with diabetes aged 40-80.

It looked at the benefits of taking a 40mg dose of simvastatin each day. Just under half of the participants showed signs of cardiovascular disease, while half did not.

It found this routine use of statins cut the number of heart attacks and strokes in both groups by a third.

Cholesterol levels
Ideal level: less than 4mmol/l.
Benefits were also seen in people whose cholesterol levels were not high in the first place (less than 5mmol/l) and in those at the top of the age range.

The results showed statins can prevent cardiovascular disease, because they reduced heart attacks and stroke in people who didn't have cardiovascular disease at the start of the trial.

What are the side effects?
Statins are generally well tolerated. But in some people they cause headaches, affect liver function and cause stomach problems such as abdominal pain, constipation, flatulence, diarrhoea and vomiting. More rarely, they can cause rashes and disorder of the muscles (myopathy).

Where a statin cannot be tolerated, alternative medications such as ezetimibe or a fibrate drug may be tried but these medications do not lower cholesterol to the same degree as a statin.

Should everyone with diabetes take a statin?
This is currently a matter of intense debate. All people with diabetes over the age of 40 should take a statin, according to the NICE guidelines (2008). Statins may be prescribed in diabetic patients who are under 40 years of age if there are additional cardiovascular risk factors or if there is diabetic eye disease (retinopathy) or kidney disease (neuropathy) present.

The CARDS and HPS studies have clearly shown that statins reduce cardiovascular risk, regardless of how low cholesterol levels are in the first place.

This suggests there shouldn't be a level of blood cholesterol below which statin treatment is considered unbeneficial. More research is now in progress to try and clarify the broader use of statins in diabetes treatment.

In the long term
Tackling the cardiovascular risk of diabetes is every bit as important as regulating your blood sugar level. For many people it is more important, and statins are now among the most powerful tools we have to influence this risk.


On the site I've copied this from it does say this was updated in 2008, so perhaps things may have changed a bit since then? But it's still interesting stuff!!

Griffy.
 

Cowboyjim

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They've given me simvastatins for a while now. I recall the GP telling me to watch out for muscle pains. She gave me the impression that statins can cause muscle damage in some people tho it is rare. Further, that it might be permanent.
There is a lot of debate especially from US patients. Some people have memory problems too.
The problem is weighing up the pros and cons when we are just patients and not medicos. You have to trust their judgment even tho they are not fully au fait with everything. That is supposing that there is anyone with perfect knowledge for everyone. Impossible. Plus they are busy and you might suspect another agenda. 8)
 

mrssmurf2

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Can I ask something about the C levels?
I am 33 years old and have been diagnosed with diabetes for about a month. My colestral (can't spell it) is 8.2 so they Doc said it was high and he gonna put me on Statins on next visit.
I am about a stone overwieght why is colestrol (different spelling) so high. Is it hereditary??