Novolog vs humalog

[Kristin251]

We just switched insurance and the new one wants me to go from novolog to humalog. I'm a bit afraid as the doses I take are half units and I know novolog like the back of my hand.

Anyone else switched one way or another?

 

[Daibell]

Hi. Why on earth would an insurance company want to start making medical decisions? Are they qualified to do so? I assume you are based in the USA and hence the insurance is private health insurance? Perhaps the Humalog is cheaper?

 

[EllsKBells]

Hi @Kristin251 stupid insurance companies aside, I went from Novolog (or Novorapid as it is here in the UK) to humalog. In theory, I think humalog is meant to start acting a bit more quickly, although I can't say I've noticed much difference between the two. I would say my doses are about the same. That said, I probably take a lot more than you do - I am not the most insulin sensitive person in the world. One thing I will say is that where Novorapid would sometimes make me itchy around my injection sites, I don't seem to get that with Humalog. I would say my Novorapid associated hypos probably appeared a bit more quickly - with the Humalog, if I've got it wrong the hypo might not appear until three hours later, whereas with novorapid, it would generally be in the first ninety minutes to two hours. I don't really know if I'm getting less of a spike, because I didn't have access to a libre while on Novorapid, but I would make an educated guess that that is the case, because the variation is less. TO be honest, I don't feel as though there is that much difference, but as you say, since you are on such small doses, it may be more noticeable for you.

Hope that helps

 

[Kristin251]

Hi. Why on earth would an insurance company want to start making medical decisions? Are they qualified to do so? I assume you are based in the USA and hence the insurance is private health insurance? Perhaps the Humalog is cheaper?

I am completely in agreement. And yes US. the last time we changed they did the same thing but my nurse went to bat for me and I get novolog. I have an email into her. Yes, I believe it's cheaper but it's not a drug to be messing around with!!! And NO, how can they be wualified? It's inconceivable to me.

As I said, needing half units MOST of the time one extra drop can make a difference. A half unit is literally 2 measly drops. It just kind of drips down the needle. At first I thought the pen was broken or the needle clogged!! Not much room for error for me. I'm scared lol

 

[tim2000s]

I'd agree with @EllsKBells for me Humalog and Novorapid are pretty much equivalent. I didn't see any difference really.

 

[Kristin251]

I'm just a bit paranoid as wherever I am at two hours at most I rise. 1 unit of lantus carries me nowhere in the morning. I do get funky feelings in the morning after injecting which is part ( most ) of the reason I like low doses.
So are we saying humalog works a tad faster and longer? Or faster but Peter's out sooner ? I suppose I could figure that out too.
The good news is I paid $250 last time for novolog and humalog will be $35. Lantus was $120 now $10. Yay

 

[lukkymik]

Sorry but I'm now mightily confused. OK I live in UK but I take 36 units of Lantus 9am & 9pm plus 24-27 units of Apidra 3 times a day depending onby my carb intake. I'm type 2 with other medical problems but how can I be taking such massive doses compared to you Kristin251??

 

[catapillar]

Sorry but I'm now mightily confused. OK I live in UK but I take 36 units of Lantus 9am & 9pm plus 24-27 units of Apidra 3 times a day depending onby my carb intake. I'm type 2 with other medical problems but how can I be taking such massive doses compared to you Kristin251??

Because people are different. We all need different insulin doses, it's entirely personal. Don't get concerned about what other people take, just take what's right for you.

Type 2 is often insulin resistance, you need to take insulin because your body doesn't react to it and use it efficiently, so you need to take lots of insulin. Type 1 is not making insulin, there's not any insulin resistance, just not making it. LADA/1.5 suggests some endogenous insulin production that might also result in lower insulin requirements.

 

[DaftThoughts]

Sorry but I'm now mightily confused. OK I live in UK but I take 36 units of Lantus 9am & 9pm plus 24-27 units of Apidra 3 times a day depending onby my carb intake. I'm type 2 with other medical problems but how can I be taking such massive doses compared to you Kristin251??

Kristin's diet is extremely low carb and on the sparse side compared to what most people require and can deal with in a day. It works extremely well for her which is why he insulin needs are so low. I take 12 units of Toujeo and can go anywhere between 15-25 units a day of Novorapid depending on what's going on. Hormonal issues, exercise and diet all influence how much I take of rapid acting though.

I don't know if I'm still making any insulin of my own, my DSN didn't think it necessary to test again (and I'd have to pay for the test myself in that case) so I haven't gotten a C-peptide anymore, but it's possible my body is still trickling a bunch throughout the day meaning I need to inject less. I also don't have insulin resistance outside of the dawn phenomenon (which is normal for just about everyone I'm sure) which means I don't need to take too much insulin.

I'm just a bit paranoid as wherever I am at two hours at most I rise. 1 unit of lantus carries me nowhere in the morning. I do get funky feelings in the morning after injecting which is part ( most ) of the reason I like low doses.
So are we saying humalog works a tad faster and longer? Or faster but Peter's out sooner ? I suppose I could figure that out too.
The good news is I paid $250 last time for novolog and humalog will be $35. Lantus was $120 now $10. Yay

Afraid I have no info for you Kristin, but I'm sure you'll get this sorted out! Take your time with getting your ratios right again. Rooting for you that it's not going to be a big difference at all. (And that price change is super sweet too!)

 

[Kristin251]

Sorry but I'm now mightily confused. OK I live in UK but I take 36 units of Lantus 9am & 9pm plus 24-27 units of Apidra 3 times a day depending onby my carb intake. I'm type 2 with other medical problems but how can I be taking such massive doses compared to you Kristin251??

DaftThoufhts is correct. I am extremely low carb. 20 or less a day and they all come from abi e ground low carb veggies, avocado and a few nuts. My meals are small as well. I've never needed a lot of calories and I have very troublesome stomach issues that requires the smaller meals. My diet is a keto diet and 80% fat. I don't eat foods that make me insulin resistant either. And I'm sure you are much bigger than me and have much more muscle. I have an athletic build but am not built like a brick house.
We are all unique and what works for one doesn't always work for another.


DaftThoughts, I, sure I'll work it out one way or another. Yup, the price reduction is awesome !!! My concern is that I KNOW novolog is gone at the two hour mark. Wherever I am at the 60 min mark I will only go up. IF I'm going to drop at all it will be in the first hour. Never later. Reading above humalog could last a bit longer. That would actually be nice so it covers a little more of my protein. I can never take the whole dose at once or I go low then pop up so after bf I need another dose an hour -2 hours later. Some food and some morning rise. I figured novolog outnim sure I can figure humalog out too. I do get some funky feelings an hour or so after injecting which is also why I like small doses. Maybe humalog would suit me better. Only one way to find out but changing insulin is scary

 

[DaftThoughts]

DaftThoughts, I, sure I'll work it out one way or another. Yup, the price reduction is awesome !!! My concern is that I KNOW novolog is gone at the two hour mark. Wherever I am at the 60 min mark I will only go up. IF I'm going to drop at all it will be in the first hour. Never later. Reading above humalog could last a bit longer. That would actually be nice so it covers a little more of my protein. I can never take the whole dose at once or I go low then pop up so after bf I need another dose an hour -2 hours later. Some food and some morning rise. I figured novolog outnim sure I can figure humalog out too. I do get some funky feelings an hour or so after injecting which is also why I like small doses. Maybe humalog would suit me better. Only one way to find out but changing insulin is scary

We're here for you for that journey.

 

[Kristin251]

We're here for you for that journey.

Thanks!!!! First dose for lunch on board. I just get all these weird nuance feeling that are strongest in the morning but still around at lunch. Blurry eyes, tingling, nausea to name a few about forty five min after I take it. Bg is completely flat. I'm very sensitive to meds and supps, as well as other things but hoping this puts an end to that. That is one of the reasons I eat the way I do. So I can take less insulin and not feel twice as bad. I don't look forward to firing it all up again.

 

[catapillar]

Thanks!!!! First dose for lunch on board. I just get all these weird nuance feeling that are strongest in the morning but still around at lunch. Blurry eyes, tingling, nausea to name a few about forty five min after I take it. Bg is completely flat. I'm very sensitive to meds and supps, as well as other things but hoping this puts an end to that. That is one of the reasons I eat the way I do. So I can take less insulin and not feel twice as bad. I don't look forward to firing it all up again.

Could it be an anxiety / psychosomatic type reaction? You've said you're scared and paranoid about the change of insulin. Might it be worth exploring some relaxation techniques to help you get used to it?

 

[Kristin251]

Most definitely not. I've only experienced one insulin. I think it would be normal to be scared to switch. Insulin is far from ibuprofen. Serious consequences. Do you think I enjoy these feelings ? I want nothing more than for them to go away. I think it's reasonable that some meds don't work as well as others for some people. Certainly not in my head I assure you. Many have switched insulins because it's not working for one reason or another. Not uncommon fromwhat I read

Different insulins work differently for different people with different diets. Mine is very high fat so a different insulin could work very differently.

I did switch. Two doses in. So far so good. Very optimistic.

I generally love your advice but I'm offended. I dont hypo or hyper and don't want to. Is that psychosomatic or an anxiety disorder? Just checking what the differences are. Some insulins work better than other for different people. Just doing some research.

 

[DaftThoughts]

I generally love your advice but I'm offended. I dont hypo or hyper and don't want to. Is that psychosomatic or an anxiety disorder? Just checking what the differences are. Some insulins work better than other for different people. Just doing some research.

I spent many years in therapy and still do for a number of conditions, and one thing I know is that we can subconsciously create the symptoms of something we don't want to happen because we're so hyper focused on whether or not they will happen. AKA I can trigger panic attacks in myself because I absolutely don't want them and it winds me up so much that they happen. I don't want them, but I sometimes cause them.

It wouldn't surprise me if this can happen with diabetes treatments as well. You hate feeling bad so much that the prospect of it potentially happening on a new insulin can create the feelings you're working so hard to avoid. That's not a poor reflection on you, just something that happens and can be alleviated through relaxation methods. I don't know if that is happening to you, but the mind is a powerful thing and can affect us in very physical ways. Anxiety can trigger psychosomatic symptoms.

 

[catapillar]

I generally love your advice but I'm offended. I dont hypo or hyper and don't want to. Is that psychosomatic or an anxiety disorder?

Sorry, I certainly wasn't intending to imply anything offensive. I don't think anxiety is anything to be ashamed of, and as you say it's perfectly reasonable to be anxious over a medication change, so when I queried whether anxiety might be causing the nuanced symptoms you described it didn't cross my mind that it could be taken in any sort of derogatory way.

I was just asking the question because if you are feeling anxious about the medication change any symptoms that might be attributed to the change could be as a result of the anxiety because it can produce real physical symptoms.

 

[Kristin251]

Thanks @DaftThoughts and @catapillar. Maybe I over reacted. Sorry. I didn't really have anxiety but rather doing some research. Finally finding there might only be a few tiny differences but it might just be the differences I need. The chemical make up is slightly different ( hopefully in my favor) and the action time might. E slightly longer which would also be in my favor.

As I'm sure you both have seen in other posts I am very sensitive to a lot of things and there might be something in novolog that doesn't work for me. I have always said it makes me feel like junk 45 min after I take it. I assure you it's not anything in my head. The other day I took one unit, ate lunch and went shopping with Hubby. An hour later I had all the symptoms of a hypo. My bg was rock steady. Started at 85 and went to the bathroom to check. 85. I was feeling light headed, weak knees etc and I wasn't even thinking about it. I do understand what you're both saying but this is a true physical symptom so I'm hoping humalog will be the answer. So far so good.

I just wanted to be prepared as to what to expect. When I first started on insulin and was eating carbs I had hypos all the time. It took a long time to figure out my meals and doses and wasn't really looking forward to starting all over but after some research I learned they are very similar so I decided to give it a go....I would t think it could be any worse than the sensations I get from novolog so maybe the only way is up.

Sorry if I over reacted. I just want to feel normal and not like I, crawling out of my skin.

 

[Kristin251]

Just an update here if anyone cares.

Many of you know I eat pretty much the same meals each meal everyday. Not the same food but same size and same macros. So it's fairly easy for me to notice the differences
Started humalog at lunch on thurs. So 8 injections in so far. ( I need one or two extra small boluses between bf and lunch for the morning rise ). I have felt nothing negative and might even have stopped the electrical nerve feeling I get 45 min after taking it.
Novolog seems to peak sharply at one hour and start dropping off rather quickly. Wherever my bg is at 1.5 hours is were it will never drop and will continue a slow rise
Humalog seems much smoother and last longer with no sharp action or drop. I'm noticing it might even be a bit stronger or maybe it's just that it lasts longer that I'm generally slightly under where I start eating rather than slightly higher. All this is good for me as I eat a high fat diet and my protein isn't gone in one hour so humalog will still be there for it while novolog would be gone.
Too soon to be conclusive as there have been other variables of course in such a short time. I couldn't sleep one night but surprisingly I was running on the low side and not requiring as much insulin. And the sun has come out and temp warming up a tad. That always helps me. Day in and day out of rain and gloom never helps.
So in conclusion, at this point is seems humalog might be life altering for me if it stops all that nervous system nonsense and doesn't act like a sledge hammer and gives me a little smoother and longer action.

Of course this is just my experience.