Is it Low carbs or ketogenic to help neuropathy ?

[Juicetin]

Thank you for creating this thread.
I never realised prediabetes sufferers get neuropathy. So early on in the diabetic journey?
I always thought to suffer with neuropathy its from months of high bgs?
I didn't realise prediabetics already suffered with high bgs. So their hba1c averages out the highs and lows to state prediabetes?

Yes neuropathy can definitely affect prediabetes, there are quite a few articles on the internet about this. Particularly if you have had it for some time.

 

[LittleGreyCat]

I'm just reading Volek and Phinney (again - hard work at times) on ketosis and ketogenic and low carbohydrate diets.

One thing they state is that achieving nutritional ketosis changes quite a few metabolic pathways and your body switches to mainly burning ketones for energy.

It can take 4-6 weeks for your metabolism to fully adapt, and if you dip out of ketosis by having too many carbs it may take you 3-4 days to get back in.

They also claim that being in ketosis can reduce a number of things which cause inflammation and nerve and blood vessel damage.

So although you can possibly lower your BG by going lowish carb, you won't get the full benefits of ketosis and the changed metabolic pathways unless you go very low carb. It depends if your neuropathy is due to something like too much insulin production because you are insulin resistant, or just due to higher BG levels.

Everyone is different, but possibly worth trying.

 

[SusieWillow]

Do you drink any drinks with Aspartame in ir? Like Diet Coke or in fact most other low sugar or zero cal foods or drinks? Even some medications with sweeteners have it. I ask because that stuff is really evil. After a few cans of that stuff you will if susceptible, get all sorts of stabbing and burning in your feet and even throughout your body. It takes a couple of cans to build up, but it does it EVERY time I touch it. I put it down to my Type 2 Diabetes, but when I stopped drinking the stuff, the burning and stabbing went away after a few days. Each time I get desperate for something to drink..and I go back to it, even for a short time, it comes back. You can try removing Aspartame i(f you use it), from your diet and you will definitely benefit. That sweetener is dreadful for the body, and No matter how safe they would have us believe it is, you will find many stories of people who disagree. Good luck. It costs nothing to try

 

[ickihun]

Yes neuropathy can definitely affect prediabetes, there are quite a few articles on the internet about this. Particularly if you have had it for some time.

Do you think everyone start prediabetic pre type2 insulin resistant? Or is prediabetic before beta cells are under pressure pre type1 too?
I'm going to read up on it. Although you guys know better. Living with it!
I wonder if I was prediabetic in the womb?

 

[LittleGreyCat]

Do you think everyone start prediabetic pre type2 insulin resistant? Or is prediabetic before beta cells are under pressure pre type1 too?
I'm going to read up on it. Although you guys know better. Living with it!
I wonder if I was prediabetic in the womb?

One theory is the bathtub one.

Either your liver is dumping too much glucose in your blood stream or your tissues are insulin resistant and not taking up enough glucose.

Like a bath tub; either the tap is running too fast or the plug hole is all clagged up with hair and stuff.
Either way the bath overflows but unless you know which end is not working properly you don't know the cause of the problem. Of course both ends could be working wrong.

So probably not everyone starts out insulin resistant, but I think that the vast majority do.
This also rolls into the perennial question of are you T2 because you are fat, or is the excess fat storage a symptom of the fat cells being overloaded by too much insulin which in turn is caused by developing insulin resistance and/or glucose over production?

If T2 was just insulin resistance due to fat overloading the muscle tissues then it would be a lot more curable by diet and exercise, and us relatively skinny T2s wouldn't be T2s at all.

Which in turn raises the question about failing insulin production; does this mean that you are really a slow onset T1 or is T1 the immune system eating the pancreas and T2 the cells just getting tired and emotional?

There is sadly no single answer.

 

[ickihun]

So the original question being low carb or ketone?
Seeing that both diet related it answers only the diet side of prediabetes. Or obesity side of prediabetes.
Still remains the same not all obese people are prediabetic.
Surely that proves diet isn't its sole maker? Once again thin prediabetics!
A lot of type2s experience stress. Could stress not be more of a catalyst than diet?
Afterall is prediabetes not just a less struggling form of type2?

 

[Begonia]

Do you drink any drinks with Aspartame in ir? Like Diet Coke or in fact most other low sugar or zero cal foods or drinks? Even some medications with sweeteners have it. I ask because that stuff is really evil. After a few cans of that stuff you will if susceptible, get all sorts of stabbing and burning in your feet and even throughout your body. It takes a couple of cans to build up, but it does it EVERY time I touch it. I put it down to my Type 2 Diabetes, but when I stopped drinking the stuff, the burning and stabbing went away after a few days. Each time I get desperate for something to drink..and I go back to it, even for a short time, it comes back. You can try removing Aspartame i(f you use it), from your diet and you will definitely benefit. That sweetener is dreadful for the body, and No matter how safe they would have us believe it is, you will find many stories of people who disagree. Good luck. It costs nothing to try

Thanks for your reply. I don't drink diet cola and other sweetened drinks. In fact up until recently I have eaten what I thought was a really healthy diet. Several days per week this would be:

Breakfast- fruit with low fat yoghurt (bananas/grapes/melon)
Lunch - fruit (bananas, grapes, pineapple, melon, blueberries)
Dinner - vegetables (onion, aubergine, tomatoes, mushrooms) with cheese topping all on a massive plate of brown rice

Now I realise how very high carbs this was !!

 

[Begonia]

I'm just reading Volek and Phinney (again - hard work at times) on ketosis and ketogenic and low carbohydrate diets.

One thing they state is that achieving nutritional ketosis changes quite a few metabolic pathways and your body switches to mainly burning ketones for energy.

It can take 4-6 weeks for your metabolism to fully adapt, and if you dip out of ketosis by having too many carbs it may take you 3-4 days to get back in.

They also claim that being in ketosis can reduce a number of things which cause inflammation and nerve and blood vessel damage.

So although you can possibly lower your BG by going lowish carb, you won't get the full benefits of ketosis and the changed metabolic pathways unless you go very low carb. It depends if your neuropathy is due to something like too much insulin production because you are insulin resistant, or just due to higher BG levels.

Everyone is different, but possibly worth trying.

Thanks for your post. I need to do some more reading... I don't really understand the processes involved in ketosis and how it relates to nerve function.

 

[Begonia]

I have Prediabetic fasting glucose and normal hba1c at 38 last time it was checked in June.

I have suffered neuropathy in my arms and fingers on and off for several years and switching to LCHF has had a remarkable effect on symptoms from day one. I know if I'm fasting high as soon as I wake up as the symptoms are there....

So, LCHF can make a difference in some circumstances.

It has had a negligible effect on my fasting numbers so far but the 2 stone plus weight loss as a result has normalised my BP for the first time in twenty years without meds and taken my BMI from 25 to 21.

I feel much better for it.

This gives me some hope... thank you for taking the time to reply. Do you follow very low carb (eg 30-50) or less strict (eg 80-100) ? I'm trying to understand if its related to ketosis induced by VERY low carb or mainly keeping blood sugar low with no big spikes.

 

[Jamesuk9]

This gives me some hope... thank you for taking the time to reply. Do you follow very low carb (eg 30-50) or less strict (eg 80-100) ? I'm trying to understand if its related to ketosis induced by VERY low carb or mainly keeping blood sugar low with no big spikes.

For the past month or so I follow the one meal a day method of intermittent fasting. Eating an evening meal only where I dont count carbs or calories and eat until full but avoid all of the known carb heavy foods.

The Neuropathy has more or less resolved, my biggest concern is glucose levels as I do not want to let T2 get a grip on me without a fight.

I think glucose levels play a bigger part than ketosis, although ketosis is the most effective way of lowering glucose levels.

Intermittent fasting I find is far more beneficial overall than what I actually eat.

 

[librarising]

I spend a lot of time on my feet, for various reasons, and in recent years found that my heels were painful later in the day, and when sat down of an evening. After research of possible causes, I ended up, after experiments with insoles, getting these
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00WJUS01K/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
and have found my problems greatly reduced The purchase was an experiment, but one that was worth doing. You've only £5.85 to lose !
Geoff

 

[ickihun]

I've hit ketosis once but never kept it up.
My bgs and long term weight loss happened on steady bgs with less spikes than ketosis, for me.
More practical for me too. Very hard work if in and out of ketosis!

 

[annehassett]

Yes neuropathy can definitely affect prediabetes, there are quite a few articles on the internet about this. Particularly if you have had it for some time.

My doctor told me that the neuropathy and in my case restless leg syndrome develop before the diabetes is diagnosed. My BS has been well controlled for the last few years, was diagnosed 11 years ago but it was only a few years ago I learned of the low carb diet. Diabetic Nurse wouldn't endorse it but I decided to give it a go anyway. Have lost weight but used to go to gym every day before the LCHF knowledge and the exercise seemed to be the only thing that affected/improved the BS. Have now found out more about LCHF and as I think the BS has crept up I have cut back on the carbs to 30g a day, don't think I was eating enough fats till I found out about the Low Carb Program. Will just keep my fingers crossed I can get the BS down to normal figures and not just 'out of the diabetic range' whatever that meant

 

[milesrf]

You should be aware that if you find something that heals the nerves damaged in neuropathy, there are two possible results on how much pain it leaves you, depending on which portion of the nerves heals first. If the portion that senses the pain heals first, the pain will decrease. If the portion that carries the pain to your brain heals first, the pain you feel will increase instead.

 

[Begonia]

You should be aware that if you find something that heals the nerves damaged in neuropathy, there are two possible results on how much pain it leaves you, depending on which portion of the nerves heals first. If the portion that senses the pain heals first, the pain will decrease. If the portion that carries the pain to your brain heals first, the pain you feel will increase instead.

Is this a transient effect ? Is this the reason some report pain when their blood glucose comes down (and presumably nerves are starting to heal) and then the pain gets better ?

 

[milesrf]

Is this a transient effect ? Is this the reason some report pain when their blood glucose comes down (and presumably nerves are starting to heal) and then the pain gets better ?

It's transient if you continue a method that works well.

 

[welsheagle]

So the original question being low carb or ketone?
Seeing that both diet related it answers only the diet side of prediabetes. Or obesity side of prediabetes.
Still remains the same not all obese people are prediabetic.
Surely that proves diet isn't its sole maker? Once again thin prediabetics!
A lot of type2s experience stress. Could stress not be more of a catalyst than diet?
Afterall is prediabetes not just a less struggling form of type2?

I went through 6 months of intense stress before being diagnosed last year. Awful anxiety, stress and interrupted sleep. I was about 3 stone overweight and my diet wasn't too good but I didn't have any diabetic symptoms until 2 months before seeing the doctor. I am convinced stress had a major part to play. Although I got my BS down quite quickly through low carb, I now suffer with neuropathy in my feet almost instantly after eating anything with carbs/sugar. Now trying some fasting to see if it helps.