Is a high fat diet stopping your weight loss?

[catherinecherub]

http://www.ssib.org/web/index.php?page= ... ase=2010-4

Just been reading through this article which suggests that if you are overweight and eating too much fat it maybe the cause of your weight stall.
Seems the fat reacts differently in overweight individuals and does not stimulate gut hormones that suppress appetite as it does in lean individuals.

 

[Patch]

I'd like to see this experimemt replicated with lean indivuals with a high fat intake, versus lean individuals with a lower fat intake.

Both of my brothers are more than lean (skinny is the word I'm looking for here). Both eat more than I do, and don't really regulate their fat intake.

I'd propose that it is not the fact that a person is obese that causes them to lose their sensitivity to fat, but that it is their fat intake that cuases the lack of sensitivity.

Like when a heavy drinker can drink more alcohol without feeling any effects than a non-drinker can. The size of the individual is less of a factor than their regular alcohol intake level.

 

[Ka-Mon]

We all know that the body stores fat etc. so I'm not going to go into that but instead ask a question.

What does the body burn first, the stored fat or the fat that has just been consumed?

 

[Patch]

Neither - it burns Glycogen. Gycogen is produced in the body from the carbohydrates that one consumes. Any Glycogen that is not used for energy gets stored in the body.

As fat.

 

[Ka-Mon]

Then I don't understand how eating loads of fat encourages your body to burn body fat?

Also, if you eat loads of fat and none or very little carbs, what happens to the fat you ate, does that also get converted to glycogen and the excess is then stored as fat?

 

[Patch]

Nope - it passes straight through you, providing you eat a low enough quantity of carbohydrate to keep you at a low level of Ketosis. (PLEASE don't make this into a thread about ketosis Vs. Ketoacidosis - there is LOADS of info on the net, and on this forum, if you care to do some research).

 

[Ka-Mon]

Patch, I'm not trying to turn this thread into anything other than what it is, I'm just trying to understand and make sense of your claim that eating loads of fat is good and it encourages the body to burn fat.

I was told and read on google search and on other forums that everything we eat gets converted into glycogen, even fats and the excess is stored as fat. But from what you said in your last reply fats go straight through without being converted into anything. If that is the case and I cut out the carbs as well, where then does my body get it's energy to keep me going?

Also, how would you explain my situation that when I consume around 100-120 carbs a day and very little fat, my coloesterol goes down and up if I increase the fat?

And, according to your theory I should have put on weight instead of losing some.


Don't get me wrong Patch, I'm not entirely against fat, I do love eating bacon, sausages etc. but I keep to a minimum and buy low fat if possible. It's all confusing and I don't know what to think or do any more.

 

[catherinecherub]

Hi Ka-Mon,

If I was you then I would keep on doing what you are doing, it is obviously working for you. Nobody else can manage your diabetes with the best will in the world.

To Patch,


I know you always advocate high fat and minimal carbs. I would like to know if that way of management is working for you as I have seen your interest in bariatric surgery and byetta?
Perhaps you would be willing to post about your weight loss and control? I know these things are sometimes personal but it would help others to see how this works for you.

 

[graham64]

I don't have weight to lose quite the opposite, but despite a high fat low carb diet I still struggle to get back to pre-diagnosis weight even though my calorie intake is far higher. I could resolve this by increasing my carbs and cutting the sat fats but at what cost, I'm still medication free after getting on for 2 ½ years since diagnosis, increasing carbs would undoubtedly lead to the need for meds and reverse the improvements to my Lipids, in my case it's a price not worth paying.

Graham
Living Life In the Fat Lane

 

[Sid Bonkers]

Of course the jury is still out on high fat diets and whether saturated fats are good for you is even more controversial, while many low carbers say that sat fat is good the NHS advise is and always has been that it is not and I dont think that any cardiac consultant would advocate a high fat diet.

Why Saturated Fats Are Bad For Me
http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/1124.aspx?C ... goryID=167

Facts About Saturated and Unsaturated Fat
http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/Goodfood/Pages/Fat.aspx

I am aware that the low carbers will no doubt produce 'evidence' that fat is good for you but personally I will listen to my cardiologist who I am inclined to believe over a few low carbers who are never going to believe anything will work other than their own way.

 

[Ka-Mon]

I don't have weight to lose quite the opposite, but despite a high fat low carb diet I still struggle to get back to pre-diagnosis weight even though my calorie intake is far higher. I could resolve this by increasing my carbs and cutting the sat fats but at what cost, I'm still medication free after getting on for 2 ½ years since diagnosis, increasing carbs would undoubtedly lead to the need for meds and reverse the improvements to my Lipids, in my case it's a price not worth paying.

Graham
Living Life In the Fat Lane

Getting free of medication is my goal as well but if it is possible for me or not I have no idea, especially as there are many diabetics on high fat diet who can not manage without and do still have to take medication.

 

[Ka-Mon]

Hi Ka-Mon,

If I was you then I would keep on doing what you are doing, it is obviously working for you. Nobody else can manage your diabetes with the best will in the world.

Hi, I am trying to find out if there is better way of keeping my BG levels low and out of double figures that I get sometimes. As with anything that is important for my health, I would like to find out as much information about a new diet as I can before I try it, hence my questions.

 

[Patch]

I know you always advocate high fat and minimal carbs. I would like to know if that way of management is working for you as I have seen your interest in bariatric surgery and byetta?
Perhaps you would be willing to post about your weight loss and control? I know these things are sometimes personal but it would help others to see how this works for you.

I do advocate high fat - the reason for this is that I use it as a way to control my appetite. I find that fat gives me a feeling of fullness that I do not get from other foods.

The less I eat, the lower my BG levels.

I can say with absolute certainty, that when I do fall off the wagon, and eat carbohydrates, my levels spiral out of control, and my weight goes up.

co-incedentally, my fat intake usually goes down when I cheat with carbs - the weight still piles on.

WRT to my interest in bariatric surgery, what fascinates me is that when bariatric surgery reverses diabetes in Type 2 patients, it is not as a result of the following weight loss over time, but as an effect of the actual surgery. In the days following the surgery, the patients BG levels usually fall to normal levels, and stay there. Obviously this is not the case with all patients, but it is cause for further research.

Could it be that there is something in the stomach of overweight Type 2s that causes BG levels to remain elevated? And could it be that interfering with the stomach (using a gastric band) reverses, or stops whatever is happening to cause elevated levels?

I don't know - I'm not a doctor. But I get the feeling that questions like this are not being asked. Everyone in the business is too busy rubbing their hands together at the prospect of curing the obesity epedemic using invasive surgery.

 

[Ka-Mon]

Could the reason for their BG falling is the fact that they eat less?

BTW, my mother had a major operation around the stomach area, can't remember exactly what the op was for but she woke up as a T2 diabetic, that was about 12 years ago and she has recently been put on insulin twice a day.

 

[catherinecherub]

Hi Patch,

Correct me if I am wrong.

High fat suppresses your appetite so that this is the only method of control open to you. As a matter of interest does this high fat intake also control your cholesterol levels? I ask because I seem to remember that a while ago that you were concerned because your triglyceride levels were high. I would also ask if your Dr. has suggested psychological help in helping you to overcome not being able to control your eating without high fat foods? How much fat would you consider consuming in a day?
Has your weight loss ever stalled or is it continuous on this diet? Do you still have a lot to lose and how much have you lost within what period of time?
A lot of questions I know but I am curious and welcome your input to help me and others understand. I don't need to know what you weighed at the beginning and what you weigh now if you don't want to say.

With regard to the bariatric surgery, I have read that some of the procedures interrupt the digestive processes to prevent the absorption of calories and nutrients, you then have to take vitamin supplements for ever. With some of the others you still have to make lifestyle changes with regard to diet and exercise.

http://www.win.niddk.nih.gov/publications/gastric.htm

 

[ally5555]

Patch - several posts ago you mentioned that fat went through you - if that is true you must have diarrhoea all the time.

TBH most people who low carb eat less fat than they think becuase unless you drown everything in it then it is not that easy to eat. Some seem to also resort to making concoctions of fat in drinks - mmmm. i have found that generally ( and graham was the exception in my analysis on here ) they are eating low intakes of fat!. In general people women need around 70g fat /day and men 90 altho it does vary a little . When people harp on about sat fat being fine they do forget the large amounts in crisps, chips etc - that is what needs cutting down

I think this whole argument needs to look at what is recommended for the general population

2-3 protein portions a day
2-3 dairy portions a day
2 -3 fat portions - butter, spread , oil etc
5 fruit or veg
A low Gi CHO with each meal
Get rid of the junk! - this is the major problem! Also the reason Londons sewers are clogging up!
But in practice i find that people who are eating excess amounts of fat do struggle to lose wt!

catherine a combo of fat and protein suppresses the appetite as does exercise for alot of people.

Baraiatric surgery Patch generally means that pts are able to eat very small intakes and hence are really restricting the intake of calories in total. I have several private clients who have lost 10 st each and eat a very limited diet.

 

[Patch]

No problem with diarrhoea here , ally. Not since I ditched the metformin, anyway...

 

[ally5555]

ok - but what did you mean by - the fat goes through you ?

 

[Ka-Mon]

No problem with diarrhoea here , ally. Not since I ditched the metformin, anyway...

Patch, I'm curious as to how much fat you eat a day?

I have been doing some reading and in the "Ducan Diet" thread you said you had tried the Atkins diet prior to the Dukan Diet. You said "Prior to this I had done Atkins, and got on pretty well, but I believe the fat I was eating wasn't doing me any favours."

Link: viewtopic.php?f=18&t=15107&p=143726#p143726

In your profile it says that you take "oral" medication" but now you say you have "ditched the metformin".

Can you please explain because this all seems contradictory to me and I find it hard to follow your advice that eating fat will be good for me.

 

[Etty]

Patch, I'm curious as to how much fat you eat a day?

I don't know about Patch, but here is my average grams of fat/month over 5 months on a LC-HF diet :
123, 126, 120, 110, 117g.