how much danger do carbohydrates do to diabetics

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dinosaur

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what are the dangers of carbohydrates .

i understand i am not allowed sugar but i know nothing about carbohydrates bar reading everyone seems to count them or be on a non carbohydrate diet,

since i have looked into my diet and started counting how many carbohydrates i am eating i am obviously eating way way to many , but what wil it do to me in relation to my diabetes ?
will it give me all the complications of diabetes that normal sugar does ?
ie eyes/feet/stroke
etc etc

i never test except on my HB1ac and these are always 5.2 to 5.4 , so although these carbs might be bad they do not seem to effect my blood sugars in the long term albeit i am guessing they spike when i eat them ?

because my HB1AC`S are always fine i just assummed that what i eat is fine , i am guessing this is not the case.

i have adult onset type 2
 

sugarless sue

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Sugar is the simple form of carbohydrate. The danger is in consuming too many carbs at a time and therefore your pancreas cannot cope with this and your blood sugars rise . Continual high blood sugar levels lead to diabetic complications over time. Controlling the amount of carbs we eat helps to control our blood sugar levels and thus stave off the complications.

It's not just 'sugars' you need to avoid, diabetes is an inability to process glucose properly. Carbohydrate converts, in the body, to glucose. So it makes sense to reduce the amount of carbohydrate that you eat which includes sugars.

The main carbs to avoid OR reduce are the complex or starchy carbohydrates such as bread, potatoes, pasta, rice, starchy root veg and also any flour based products. The starchy carbs all convert 100% to glucose in the body and raise the blood sugar levels significantly.

When you are buying products check the total carbohydrate content, this includes the sugar content. Do not just go by the amount of sugar on the packaging as this is misleading to a diabetic.
 

dinosaur

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thank you.

i do eat half a french stick every day and half a packet of sugar free biscuits most day`s as well , plus potatoes virtually every day as well with my main meal ,all obviously full of carbs which is why i asked the question.

but i was told only to test on my 1AC, so i have not got a clue how my body reacts to these foods at the time ,only over a 4 month period .

i do not have any testing strips , how could i tell what they are doing to me straight after eating ,

due to the kind of job i do , i need food to sustain me and snack on , as it involves up to 10 hours of exercise a day .
 

cugila

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I had saved this as Sue posted in response to your OP but I might as well post it now together with another response.............


dinosaur said:
what are the dangers of carbohydrates .
There is no danger in eating carbohydrates.....as with all substances, it is the excessive consumption of carbs that can be a problem. A Diabetic needs to know what carbs are and what they will do......elevate your BG levels. Understandably what Sue posted is what I also go along with.
i understand i am not allowed sugar but i know nothing about carbohydrates bar reading everyone seems to count them or be on a non carbohydrate diet,
Sugar is a carbohydrate.......It is imperative as a Diabetic to count them, that way leads to better control of your own Diabetes. As for the comment that everyone seems to be on a no carb diet ??? Not so. You will find posts from all sorts here, many just reduce them as both Sue and I advise.
I certainly couldn't exist on a no carb diet......much too boring for a start !


since i have looked into my diet and started counting how many carbohydrates i am eating i am obviously eating way way to many , but what wil it do to me in relation to my diabetes ?
will it give me all the complications of diabetes that normal sugar does ?
ie eyes/feet/stroke
etc etc
f you eat too many carbs on a regular basis and your Bg levels are consistently too high then that WILL lead to complications, that is why good control is essential.

i never test except on my HB1ac and these are always 5.2 to 5.4 , so although these carbs might be bad they do not seem to effect my blood sugars in the long term albeit i am guessing they spike when i eat them ?
The HbA1c is an average over 90 days. As with any average figure it will miss out lows and highs. Those spikes. That is why you should test at times especially 2 hrs after your meals. It pays to know what exactly is going on and not just see waht the trend is every 3 - 6 months.

because my HB1AC`S are always fine i just assummed that what i eat is fine , i am guessing this is not the case.

i have adult onset type 2

You have to do what is best for you. If you can tolerate the carbs then fine.....if not then you may have to reduce them, just what I do. That works very well for me personally and I know reading the posts here, many others as well. So if you low carb, no carb ?? or just those like myself reduce carbs. If it works and you have good fasting and post prandial Bg levels.........go for it.

Ken


Then to your other post:

thank you.

i do eat half a french stick every day and half a packet of sugar free biscuits most day`s as well , plus potatoes virtually every day as well with my main meal ,all obviously full of carbs which is why i asked the question.
If that is what you want and it gives you good control that's fine.
but i was told only to test on my 1AC, so i have not got a clue how my body reacts to these foods at the time ,only over a 4 month period .
What you were told isn't always the best for the individual. You need to see what is happening and react to the results before the risk of any complications sets in.

i do not have any testing strips , how could i tell what they are doing to me straight after eating ,
That is why you should get yourself a meter and test strips by whatever means possible. Free, purchased, whatever. That way you WILL know what happens after you have eaten.

due to the kind of job i do , i need food to sustain me and snack on , as it involves up to 10 hours of exercise a day .
We all need food to sustain us whatever type of work we do. You just need to make sure that as a DIabetic what you eat is good for your particular circumstances. If I am working hard then I need more energy so I eat a little more. I still keep good control by moderating the intake of carbs most days. I never run out of energy and still eat well.

Ken
 

phoenix

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Carbohydrates are not evil but not all carbs are equal.
Some carbs such as polished white rice, white flour have been stripped of their nutrients during processing and may have very few nutrients therefore providing little but energy.
Other foods containing carbohydrates, wholegrains (brown rice, wholegrain flour), legumes , fruit and vegetables contain valuable nutrients and (often) lots of fibre.

Carbs vary in the speed of absorbtion. Some like glucose are absorbed almost immediately causing a very fast increase in blood glucose. Others are absorbed more slowly allowing the body to deal with them over time causing a much more gentle rise and fall.
Mashed potato and white French Bread and even many wholemeal breads are quickly absorbed and will cause a very high quick spike in the blood glucose levels: other foods ; pulses in particular, al dente pasta and some varieties of rice, some grainy breads are much slower. The cooking/manufacturing process can also alter the speed of digestion.

Not all starch is digested and 'turns to sugar'.Some starchy carbs contain resistant starch or fermentable starches. These escape intial digestion and may have health benefits particularly for people with diabetes.
Studies have shown that resistant starch may decrease the blood glucose response and increase insulin sensitivity. It may also have benefits to colonic health. Foods with larger quantities of resistant starch are pulses such as beans and lentils, cold cooked potato and pasta!, and to a lesser extent oatmeal and wholegrain bread. Indeed long before the discovery of resistant starch there were studies that showed a very high fibre diet based on pulses could be effective in diabetes.
Fermentable fibre which ferments in the colon is contained in foods including berries, apples, oatmeal , again there is evidence that foods containing this type of fibre may aid colon health, increase insulin sensitivity and help to reduce cholesterol.

In my opinion it is better to look for carbs that have a lower GI (ie slower) and also offer valuable nutrients. Obviously portion size needs to be appropriate for you and your activity levels The effect of individual foods on your body can only be tested by using a meter. Certainly though your HBA1c suggests that you can't be getting high levels for long. (I also doubt that highs are balanced by lots of lows since you're not on meds)
There is a lot of useful info about the GI index and how to choose better carbs on the Univ of Sydney GI website.
http://www.glycemicindex.com/
 

dinosaur

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thank you for your reply`s ken.

i will have to buy some test strips myself then to test myself after eating as my health clinic do not issue them to type 2`s

only need to do it a few times as i do not have a very varied diet and have stuck to the foods that have given me low 1AC results.

what would be within peramiters of acceptablity for my reading to be after a meal , for that particular food to be ok to eat daily ?

and do you test before meals ?

sorry for the questions , i never asked my nurse about what diet i should be on or testing, not her fault, she is very thorough whenever i have seen her and i did get the pamphlet telling me what foods are good for diabetics, just i like a routine and the ease of food to prepare and eat and shop for, not having a lot of time inbetween all the hours work i do .
 

dinosaur

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thank you phoenix

your post is very informative .

i have eaten porridge every day for a long time, and i know that is one of the slow release forms of the starch`s you posted about, i am guessing it is runner or green beans and lentils you are talking about, and i am not in luck liking baked beans from the tin.

white french stick , my favourite food of the day and i just cannot transfer over to the wholemeal stick and enjoy it , gave up milk /sugar/sweets etc etc and have not touched one in nearly 20 months just cannot ween myself of white bread.
might have to if the results are bad


i will test after a french stick to see what it is doing to my levels.
how long do you leave it after eating to test ?
 

Angeldust

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Carbs are pretty much crucial to me in maintaining my weight because I have gastroparesis.
Plus it's all I really like. A low carb diet is also dangerous for me because I have high microalbuminurea.

I use the dafne approach and have no problems matching my insulin to carb ratio. I'm a million times better off than I was when I was told to take 'set amounts' of insulin and not eat sugar.
I also avoid synthetic sugars like the plague because I believe they do so much more harm to the body than natural sugars in moderation.

edit: sorry my post is not that informative to you as you're type 2, sorry I can't advise.
 

cugila

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dinosaur said:
thank you for your reply`s ken.
You're welcome. That's what we are here for, to help.
i will have to buy some test strips myself then to test myself after eating as my health clinic do not issue them to type 2`s
You can always go along and try and persuade them that you are wanting to be pro-active and need some more test strips to help you better understand what is happening after you have eaten certain foods. If you don't ask.....you won't get.

only need to do it a few times as i do not have a very varied diet and have stuck to the foods that have given me low 1AC results.
That's another part of the 'discussion' about tet strips you could mention.
what would be within peramiters of acceptablity for my reading to be after a meal , for that particular food to be ok to eat daily ?
The 2010 NICE guideline figures for Bg levels for a type 2 are as follows:
Fasting (waking)........between 4 - 7 mmol/l.
2 hrs after meals........no more than 8.5 mmol/l.
If the post meal numbers are lower then so much the better.


and do you test before meals ?
It pays to for a while so you have a 'base line' to work from. See what your level is then and afterwards you will know exactly what that particular meal does to your Bg levels.

sorry for the questions , i never asked my nurse about what diet i should be on or testing, not her fault, she is very thorough whenever i have seen her and i did get the pamphlet telling me what foods are good for diabetics, just i like a routine and the ease of food to prepare and eat and shop for, not having a lot of time inbetween all the hours work i do .


Keep asking the questions and we will try to help, that's what this Forum is all about.

Ken
 

Angeldust

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Also: you're a1c results are brilliant. As long as you do sufficient exercise there should be no need for a low carb diet.
 

cugila

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Angeldust said:
Also: you're a1c results are brilliant. As long as you do sufficient exercise there should be no need for a low carb diet.

I quite agree that the HbA1c is excellent, howevr speaking from my own experience recently it can hide highs and lows, that is why a HbA1c is only considered an indicator. Testing before and after meals as suggested for a short while is a good idea. I had several highs of 24+ and lows of 2+ yet my HbA1c actually went down !

I agree that a low carb diet is not needed for everybody, however I do believe that any reduction of carbohydrates is a good thing for ANY Diabetic to consider. That way lies the key to tighter control each day. You only have to look around this Forum and the success stories to see that.

Ken
 

Angeldust

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Glad to hear you've had results Ken!
I was having pure hell before I took things into my own hands and decided to change my insulin as I felt I needed....instead of being told to take set amounts and avoid sugar. Learning about DAFNE was the best thing that ever happened to me. Luckily I can maintain my weight by eating carbs, I do a lot of cardio and they're also crucial for avoiding hypos. I don't believe they're doing me any damage....it's worse I don't eat them and then have hypos because there's not much else I can eat,
I am a very strange case though... :lol:

I have to admit I don't know much about how it works with T2s as all I know about it matching rapid acting insulin to carb intake.
 

AliB

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I know this will probably be perceived as controversial, but I believe that some carbs are pretty evil.

Since my digestion collapsed two and a half years ago, what I have come to realise through all my research is what the body needs above anything, is nutrition. It is high nutrition that is finally healing my body.

Because a lot of our food now is quite devoid in nutrition we very often do not get enough to keep our bodies at optimum health - hence all the deficiency-based diseases and ailments - and the rise of the multi-million dollar supplements industry. You only need to be deficient in one element and it can impact on many others and how - or if, they work in the body. Everything is synergistic, and all elements need other elements in order to work properly in the body. Got Osteoporosis? It might not be calcium you are deficient in, but vitamin D that helps the body utilise calcium, or magnesium that needs to be taken with calcium. Sometimes it could even be a shortage of a trace element - like chromium or vanadium.

Anything that is devoid of nutrition is not only useless to the body - providing nothing but calories, but it can also rob the body of vital elements as the body tries to process it. Far better to eat foods that supply a decent amount of nutrition AND some calories.

Many common carbohydrate foods are nutrient-devoid. Sugar contains nothing of any nutritive value. Many processed carbs have had their nutrients removed during the processing - the wheatgerm for instance - the bit that has most of the nutrients that would help our body digest it gets removed because it makes the bread go off faster - not a good thing in a commercial World. It gets sold off as pig food - keeps the pigs nice and healthy!

The manufacturers often plaster the packaging on the processed stuff with the words 'fortified'. All they have done is put back a small bit of what they took out! And often what they do put back is synthetic rather than natural. When you eat nutrient-devoid food, it robs the body of valuable elements that cannot then be used for other purposes. Eating this stuff all the time, takes away far more than it gives. The more carbs we eat, the more we want - because our bodies are crying out for nutrition - and they aren't getting it. I have found that now I am eating really nutritious food, my body no longer craves anything.

We are told not to eat too much meat because of this or that. We are told not to eat salt because of this or that. We are told not to eat saturated fats because of this or that, or too many eggs, or too much butter - but these are foods that our ancestors ate for millennia - and that healthy communities still do. They ate those foods perfectly ok - hey! The human race is still here isn't it???????

We have spent years listening to the Scientists, yet we are sick. And getting worse. Who is right? The Scientists whose ideas and concepts change like the wind, or our Ancestors who generally lived very well on good basic foods without anything processed or adulterated? Is Science making our food better - or worse? Is the Western diet making our health better - or worse? The phrase 'foods that heal, foods that harm' has never taken on a more significant meaning than now.

How telling is this study done in a group of Canadian Aborigines who all reversed their diabetes and obesity when they reverted to a diet that was very similar to their ancestral diet - http://www.cbc.ca/thelens/bigfatdiet/
 

HpprKM

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I have been following the discussions on carbs for some time, I really have great difficulty in trying to give them up completely and so have tried to compromise - I do not (never have) eat white bread and now understand that Rye is a better option and so try to stick to that, knowing wholemeal is not much better than white. I eat only low Gi pasta and try to stick to the 'less damaging' forms of rice, but in what ever way I to partake of carbs I try to do so in moderation, this also means small portions.

In view of the ongoing discussions I would share this article taken from the American Diabetes Website - 'Diabetes Daily', to which I belong (and suspect some other forum members do also), as it is quite relevant and something most of you will be familiar with!

This from written by Elizabeth Edelman on August 23, 2010 4:34 PM:
The Diabetes Food Police
If you have diabetes, any kind of diabetes, chances are you've run into the diabetes food police before. It's usually someone who thinks that they're being well-meaning, but have no clue what they're talking about.


The best line (and most common one) is "Can you eat that?" If I'm in a good mood, I use the opportunity to educate, because we all know that nobody knows squat about diabetes unless they HAVE it.


For example, today I picked up some subs for lunch for my brothers and me. The guy behind the counter asked me what I did for a living and I told him about Diabetes Daily. He's like "Oh, do you have diabetes?" I answered, yes. Naturally, he goes, "that sucks, so you can't have sugar?" I replied, "Well, I can have sugar, I just have to take insulin for it. The bread you're putting my sandwich on is harder for me to eat than eating a cookie." By the end of our short conversation, he kind of knew what I was talking about and I felt that I had done a good deed by educating him.


Food for thought indeed :D :wink:
 

AliB

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Well, maybe we can take extra medication if we have sugar or certain carbs, but that still doesn't address the point of whether it is actually any good for us.

How healthy a food is is not necessarily determined by how much it pushes the blood sugar up, but by what effect, if any, it has on the body.

We live in times of rapidly escalating Diabetes. Even amongst children. Why? What is driving it?

Year on year, sugar and carbohydrate consumption is increasing. Foods that our ancestors ate perfectly well for aeons - saturated fats, unrefined sea salt, red meat, etc., are being demonised and thrown aside in the quest for 'health'. But what if they are actually discarding the foods that are good for us, and are encouraging us to eat food that is not?

The amount of carb the body actually needs - is Zero. Zilch. The body is quite capable of manufacturing the small amount of carb it actually needs from protein, through gluconeogenesis. It is no surprise that low-carb - or as I prefer to call it 'natural carb' has been found to be of great benefit for a huge number of illnesses and ailments, from Autism, through Acne, Alzheimer's, Arthritis, Exzema, Epilepsy, some Cancers, cataract, cirrhosis, Crohn's and other digestive issues, depression, Diabetes, Gallbladder issues, Glaucoma, Gout, Irritable Bowel Syndrome, Kidney Stones, Kidney Failure, MS, ME, Neuropathy, Osteoporosis, Parkinson's, PCOS, Psoriasis, Retinopathy, Schizophrenia, Stomach Ulcers, tooth decay and UC, to name a few.

This is no coincidence. I have seen a heap of my health issues go away - some of them considered to be 'Diabetic Complications', during the time I have been following the low-carb (natural carb) regime. I threw away the Blood Pressure tablets three weeks or so into the diet and have not needed them since.

I have also been able to cut my insulin and Metformin requirements right down from 40 units and 3 x 850mg Metformin per day - and levels STILL up in double figures, to just 10 units and 1 Metformin every three or four days - and have even gone a week or more sometimes without needing any!

My Blood sugar rarely rises above 7 and is usually in or around normal range. I no longer get hypos. As they are driven by carb and I am not eating any I don't get them any more. I don't miss them either! :lol:

Despite the high fat, and red meat and horror of horrors (!) very healing unprocessed sea salt, everything is working very well, and gradually getting better all the time.
 

sugarless sue

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AliB said:
I have also been able to cut my insulin and Metformin requirements right down from 40 units and 3 x 850mg Metformin per day - and levels STILL up in double figures, to just 10 units and 1 Metformin every three or four days - and have even gone a week or more sometimes without needing any!

My Blood sugar rarely rises above 7 and is usually in or around normal range. I no longer get hypos. As they are driven by carb and I am not eating any I don't get them any more. I don't miss them either! :lol:

Can you explain the above comment Ali? You have reduced your carbs and your insulin THAT is why you do not get hypos anymore. Lack of carbs can cause hypos in anyone, not just diabetics.
 

AliB

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No Sue it doesn't - not when you are in Ketosis - when your body is using fat for fuel. Fat does not affect insulin levels so it fluctuates very little. The only carbs I eat is a portion or two of non-starchy veg with my main meal, and whatever is in the meat, fish, poultry or eggs. Some eat cheese, but the only dairy I have is butter, which is manly fat. Milk is too high in carbs (and makes me constipated! :( ).

Carbs drive hypos. People end up in a vicious cycle of being totally reliant on the carbs. Their blood sugar ends up bouncing from one carb 'hit' to the next. The more carb they eat in any one go, the higher the insulin and the lower the crash. I spent years before the Diabetes struggling with hypos. Even back then I had impaired carb metabolism, but it was driven by the carbs - the processed carbs and sugars. About 25 years ago a wise Naturopath advised me to eat low-carb. When I did, I was fit and healthy, lost weight easily and didn't have hypos! I knew it. But then those insidious carbs would creep back in and off I'd go again.

The difference now is that I understand what it does to me. I can see through it and i know the damage it is doing to everyone - not just Diabetics. I don't want to be sick any more - and the only way I can recover, is to dump the foods that were driving the disease. You don't suggest that an alcoholic drinks plenty of alcohol, so why tell Diabetics - who have impaired carb metabolism - to eat plenty of starchy carb!!!

There are quite a lot of athletes who low, or even 'zero' carb (just Google Charles Washington, or 'zero carb' for instance). They run perfectly well on low-carb and unlike carb-fuelled athletes, they never hit 'the wall' which is the point at which the body runs out of glucose and has to change over to fat-burning.

I just cannot see what all the constant haranguing is over the low-carb ethic! This is the way our ancestors ate for thousands of years! Not until the advent of agriculture and the problems that came with it have we been eating grains. Before that, the hunter-gatherers lived perfectly well on meat, fish, eggs and fat. They would eat wild vegetables and some fruit foraged from the hedgerows or plains, nuts if they could find them, milk (ALL raw and unpasteurised) if they had cattle, goats or sheep. They would make butter, yoghurt and cream.

Even today, some Maasai will consume up to a pound and a half of butter a day! That is where they get their energy. It is a very reliable and efficient source of energy, and unlike glucose, not only does it not run out, you don't need to keep topping it up either!

The point is, the human race is well able to adapt to a wide range of foods, from natural carbs to all meat and fat - the difference is that whether carbs-based or protein/fat based it HAS to be all natural and unprocessed and of high nutritional quality.

It is only when cultures and communities start to deviate from their traditional diet and add in our Western processed carb-based foods that they start to get our Western diseases. They have replaced their highly nutritional foods with stuff that takes away more than it gives.

This is SO logical. We are just so confused by the overwhelming barrage of obfuscation that spews out of the World of Science, that we cannot see the wood for the trees.

I did get a few hypos during the transition to fat burning as my body readjusted but it didn't last very long, and it didn't frighten me because I knew what was going on. Since the changeover I haven't had ONE hypo. As long as I keep my carb level under 20 grams I have no problem at all and even the odd foray over is fine too.

I am far from alone. There are an awful lot out there like me. We are reaping the benefits of going back to the way humans ate for thousands of years, not only controlling our diabetes, but healing our bodies into the bargain.
 

sugarless sue

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That's fine Ali, it obviously works for you. Unfortunately it will not work for everyone otherwise controlling diabetes would be simple and there would be no need for forums such as this.

Many cannot control their diabetes without medication because they were diagnosed late into their diabetes, however few carbs they eat.
 

noblehead

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AliB said:
I am far from alone. There are an awful lot out there like me. We are reaping the benefits of going back to the way humans ate for thousands of years, not only controlling our diabetes, but healing our bodies into the bargain.

Mmmm............never heard of evolution AliB?

Seriously, I've never read so much rubbish in all my life in what you have written!.... Just remember what works for one will not necessarily work for another, and as long as someone with diabetes establishes good blood glucose control it doesn't matter how many carbs they eat, more important is that they eat a well balanced low-fat diet including plenty of fresh fruit and vegetables.

Good luck with your diet choice! :)

Nigel
 
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catherinecherub

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AliB,
I see that you tout the low carb diet as a panacea for all ills. Do you also buy into the conspiracy theory that some low carbers do that the pharmaceutical industry is responsible for suppressing this information?
Whatever floats your boat as regards to management but please do not think that because it works for you that it is the only way to go. Others here manage their diabetes very well with the inclusion of carbohydrates and do not call them evil as you do. They do not suffer from other illnesses because they eat carbs and demonising carbs because you cannot tolerate them does not make it right.
As Nigel rightly states, humans have evolved over the years and the hunter gatherers that you refer to did not have the option of including complex carbohydrates in their diet.
Inuits got their vitamin C by eating the entrails of sea mammals and caribou, we don't need to use such drastic measures for obtaining Vitamin C either.
I eat and enjoy my carbohydrates and do not need to heal my body, it doesn't need healing. I have Type 2 diabetes, I can control it and I do, it but it is with me for the rest of my life and no diet, low carb or otherwise, will change that.
 
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