Type 1 4mm needles not working

Rachy

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Type 1
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Insulin
Hi all,

In need of some advice. I have recently been switched from using the NovoFine 8mm needles to the BD 4mm needles but I genuinely don't think they are working properly a lot of the time.

Example: this morning had porridge @ 40g carb and injected 10 NovoRapid, blood sugars have shot up to 20!!!

Anyone else have any issues?
 
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Hi @Rachy
I was on 4mm needles for many years with no problems.
However. they may not be for everyone.

What was your reason for changing from 8mm?
And have you made any other changes apart from the needles?
It may be the needles but it may be something like your pen having a "funny turn", your insulin not working properly or you are stressed by the new needles.
 

Juicyj

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Hi @Rachy How are your injections sites ? They should work fine as long as your injection sites don't have lumps. If you're seeing continuous issues then change needles, however have you ruled out other factors, so are you due on, heat, exercise, changed insulin cartridge etc.
 

Rachy

Active Member
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Type of diabetes
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Insulin
Hi @Rachy
I was on 4mm needles for many years with no problems.
However. they may not be for everyone.

What was your reason for changing from 8mm?
And have you made any other changes apart from the needles?
It may be the needles but it may be something like your pen having a "funny turn", your insulin not working properly or you are stressed by the new needles.

I have been using the 8mm for 14 years since first diagnosis but the DR said that it doesn't matter what weight you are, new research shows that everyone should be using shorter needles so they just changed my prescription. I'm not 100% on the Science behind it. There have been no other changes, still using the same technique, pen, injection sites and just feel as if my blood sugar levels have been much higher since starting to use them.

Plus they hurt more :(
 

Rachy

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Messages
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Type of diabetes
Type 1
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Insulin
Hi @Rachy How are your injections sites ? They should work fine as long as your injection sites don't have lumps. If you're seeing continuous issues then change needles, however have you ruled out other factors, so are you due on, heat, exercise, changed insulin cartridge etc.

I do have some lumps in my stomach but I have been avoiding there so I use my hips, bum and legs mostly. I honestly can't see any other pattern except the needles as I have been trying to get really good control lately, using the FreeStyle Libre, watching what I eat, counting carbs and walking more. I can't understand why my blood sugars would be so high after eating porridge and injecting like normal. Unless I'm injecting wrong.. :/
 

Engineer88

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most likely that you used to be injecting into the muscle or very near it which speeds up absorption and now your actually injecting where you should be :)
 

Rachy

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Messages
26
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
most likely that you used to be injecting into the muscle or very near it which speeds up absorption and now your actually injecting where you should be :)
Yeah that's maybe why and should possibly up my dosage. Seems a bit crazy though as my carb:insulin ratio is going to be really high. Like probably 4 units per 10g D:
 

Engineer88

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Yeah that's maybe why and should possibly up my dosage. Seems a bit crazy though as my carb:insulin ratio is going to be really high. Like probably 4 units per 10g D:
Have you considered a pump?
 

Rachy

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Have you considered a pump?
Yes, I have. But it's the old 'don't want something attached to me permanently' story. I have the Libre sensor on but it's so small on the back of my arm. I feel as though with the pump I would have wires and all sorts attached to me and wouldn't like it
 

satindoll

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4mm needles don't work for me either, but then 8mm needles gave me a lot of pain as they went too deep so I now use 6mm needles with the best results ever, so go back and ask to try a longer needle, like everything else we are all different in fat depth and need different length needles accordingly, there is no reason to take more insulin if a small change in needle is all it takes to sort you out.........:happy:
 
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Odin004

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Hi @Rachy

Before you change your insulin/carb ratio, can I ask how you inject? - do you inject at a 90 degree angle to the skin? - and how long do you leave the needle in before pulling out?
 
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noblehead

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I have been using the 8mm for 14 years since first diagnosis but the DR said that it doesn't matter what weight you are, new research shows that everyone should be using shorter needles so they just changed my prescription. I'm not 100% on the Science behind it. There have been no other changes, still using the same technique, pen, injection sites and just feel as if my blood sugar levels have been much higher since starting to use them.

Plus they hurt more :(

The Dr is right, if you do a Google search you will find the research that says 4mm needles work for all patients regardless of size, it was once thought that people who were overweight/obese needed longer needles.

Only other thing I can think of is change the pen cartridges, it may be that your insulin has deteriorated in the heat and is less effective now, worth a try anyway, but if that fails just go back to using 8mm needles or the 5mm/6mm ones.
 

Rachy

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Hi @Rachy

Before you change your insulin/carb ratio, can I ask how you inject? - do you inject at a 90 degree angle to the skin? - and how long do you leave the needle in before pulling out?
I leave the needle in for 10 seconds before taking it out but I'm not sure I inject at a 90 degree angle. I pretty much just go straight in head on
 

Rachy

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Type of diabetes
Type 1
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The Dr is right, if you do a Google search you will find the research that says 4mm needles work for all patients regardless of size, it was once thought that people who were overweight/obese needed longer needles.

Only other thing I can think of is change the pen cartridges, it may be that your insulin has deteriorated in the heat and is less effective now, worth a try anyway, but if that fails just go back to using 8mm needles or the 5mm/6mm ones.

I have used 2 cartridges with similar effects on blood sugar levels so I don't think it's that :( I might try going back to the bigger needles or asking the Nurse at my next appointment!
 

Odin004

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I leave the needle in for 10 seconds before taking it out but I'm not sure I inject at a 90 degree angle. I pretty much just go straight in head on

There shouldn't be any problem with your injection technique in that case; perhaps there could be an issue with the insulin injecting too superficially. Going from 8mm to 4mm is quite a big change - it might be worth trying 5mm needles (I use these) - I know it's only a small change, but it may make all the difference!
 

noblehead

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I have used 2 cartridges with similar effects on blood sugar levels so I don't think it's that :( I might try going back to the bigger needles or asking the Nurse at my next appointment!

Why wait until your next appointment, give them a call tomorrow and see if they can suggest anything.


I feel as though with the pump I would have wires and all sorts attached to me and wouldn't like it

There are tubeless pumps available, just do a Google search for the Omnipod & Cellnovo Pumps, they may/may not be available through your diabetes clinic.
 

Rachy

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Type of diabetes
Type 1
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Why wait until your next appointment, give them a call tomorrow and see if they can suggest anything.




There are tubeless pumps available, just do a Google search for the Omnipod & Cellnovo Pumps, they may/may not be available through your diabetes clinic.

Thanks, just doing some research on Omnipod now. My appointment is on Thursday that's the only reason I haven't called. Plus I have some spare 8mm needles I've started using again for now :)
 
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Daibell

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Hi. I think most of us are now on 4mm and I think with few problems. I can't explain what your problem is but obviously you need to keep trying for a few days and see the GO when you can.
 

leslie10152

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Hi all,

In need of some advice. I have recently been switched from using the NovoFine 8mm needles to the BD 4mm needles but I genuinely don't think they are working properly a lot of the time.

Example: this morning had porridge @ 40g carb and injected 10 NovoRapid, blood sugars have shot up to 20!!!

Anyone else have any issues?
Hi @Rachy, have been using the same injection site too frequently? There is a condition called lypoatrophy which causes the fat deposit to harden and reduce the absorption of insulin. Coupled with the 4mm needle it could be the issue. But don't take my word as gospel, get advice from a professional.