how much danger do carbohydrates do to diabetics

[AliB]

Yes, but how would you know if you have never tried it? It takes a while for the body to readjust to fat-burning - several weeks for some, and many would be too fearful/distrusting to attempt it. It takes a strong will and ability to be able to do self-adjustment with one's medication, etc., too, and not everyone can do that.

There was a time when I probably would have dismissed it as rubbish too, but not any more.

There are quite a few studies being done and starting to come out now that are showing the benefits, so I am not sure it will be long before it becomes far more accepted.

Catherine, we all need to heal. There aren't many diabetics who don't have some degree of complications. If they haven't got them yet, then they probably will do sooner or later. You might be ok, but many aren't.

People fight this all the way. Whatever way you look at it though, Diabetes is inherently linked to carbohydrate consumption. Informed people look at the way carbs affect them and eliminate those carbs that spike their blood sugar more than others - call it GI or whatever. But they would never dream of giving them up altogether. Hell would freeze over first...

But cultures that don't eat our diet don't GET Diabetes! Cultures that don't eat the Krispy Kreme Donuts, and the Mars Bars, and the putty-flavoured bread with its chemical additives in the supermarket don't GET Diabetes! They don't eat nutrient-devoid sugar, or High-Fructose Corn Syrup, or anything made with grains that have had their guts ripped out of them, or anything made with any of this stuff.

Modern grains have been processed to the Nth degree. It may look good, it may smell good, but it is not doing people any favours. Not only has it been stripped of most of it's vital nutrients, but it won't tell you on the packet that the 'flour improvers' are predominantly chemical.

Ok, so people think they are ok with the carbs. After all, they've ONLY got Diabetes. It's not a death sentence. Maybe not, but it is the start of a very miserable existence for a lot of people, as one thing starts to fail after another.

These things rarely happen immediately. They are cumulative. They build up over time. Gradually things start to fail. We assume they are due to the Diabetes, or old age, or whatever. But are they? Does everyone else get these things because they also are eating the Western Diet? Why did the Canadian Aborigines' Diabetes, obesity and other issues reverse when they went back to their ancestral diet? Why did Dr Jay Wortman who conducted the study reverse his Diabetes on a low-carb diet. And out of interest, why did his wife not have ANY morning sickness with her second pregnancy when she was low-carbing, yet was throwing up for Canada with her first baby when she wasn't.

High insulin levels and fluctuating insulin levels radically affect many other operations and processes in the body. Little really is known or understood just what effects it has, but affect it it does. We were never designed to eat the quantity and type of carbs that we do.

I don't even have to low-carb the way Dr Bernstein does. He's gone through all the carbs he can have and those he can't. Mine is a lot simpler even than that. Makes life a whole lot easier. Because it hardly fluctuates I just test once a day, and only top up occasionally if I need to. Other than that I can forget about it. Diabetes for dummies.....

My need for medication is getting lower and lower. Hopefully, eventually I won't need it at all.

We have an easy life here. We can 'hunt' for our food on the Supermarket shelves (and our Vitamin C!). But to a certain extent we are controlled by what market forces wish to give us. Of course that is predominantly carb-driven. They are the foods that people desire. So they pander to our indulgent nature. Doesn't mean they are good for us though......

A little of what you fancy does you good. Well it did at one time, when the only time you might have a bit of cake was with your cup of tea in a local caff on a Saturday afternoon as your weekly 'treat'. These days though people think nothing of eating carbs all the time! We have a Diabetic friend whose treat was a bit of cake most days. He thought he was ok with it because it was fruit cake and must be a lot better for him than any other cake, right? Sigh.

I didn't know that my health issues would all heal when I started on this journey. I still have a way to go, but am improving all the time.

Of course, there will always be ridiculers. But my take on it is how can you possibly comment when you haven't tried it? It takes a fair bit of bottle to stick your head above the parapet when the arrows are flying all around you.....

 

[catherinecherub]

AliB,
It is impossible to debate with someone with such a degree of fanatisism.

Not all of us lived on donuts, mars bars and putty flavoured bread prior to diagnosis and not all of us have to take medication or suffer additional health problems because we do not low carb. Even low carbers take medication and it is not about that. Lots of people have to take meds but that does not mean that they are not managing their condition well. Perhaps people put on weight because of the diabetes as opposed to putting weight on and then getting this chronic condition.
Type 2 diabetes is not all about overeating a Western diet until you become sick.
There are plenty of low carbers here who do not try to impose their views on all and sundry. They post about what works for them and are supportive of all their fellow diabetics.
As for puttin your head above the parapet, there are no arrows flying about just the imaginary ones that you see.
I don't understand why you want everybody to try a low carb diet. The ethos of this forum allows for all diets and not just yours. Until you can accept that other methods of control work successfully then what is the point of a discussion?

 

[cugila]

AliB.
I have to take you to task about your comment last night that 'carbs drive hypo's. Both Sue and I frankly were too tired to pursue what you stated any further. So, another day.......

'What causes hypo's........
Too much Insulin, not enough food, too much exercise, a delayed or missed meal,stress, hot weather..

If you are using too much Insulin then you are probably eating way too many carbs......that is driven by a lack of willpower/motivation to reduce carbs down to levels which allow the individual to control their Bg levels well. It may well be driven by a craving for carbs and lack of knowledge about their effects.......it certainly doesn't mean that carbs are the cause of hypo's. That is just not true.

Not enough food..........
If you don't eat properly then your Bg levels can quite easily drop to the hypoglycaemic levels, in a Diabetic.....below 4 mmol/l. In a non Diabetic anything below around 2.5 mmol/l. The clinically accepted values. You may then 'liver dump' and the levels will rise, if you still don't eat then the levels will drop again and the process will repeat itself ad infinitum. A roller coaster of down/up down/up. If you are a T1 then you may have enough Insulin production left to 'liver dump' and keep the levels up above the hypo zone.....you may not so can quickly go too low and be in serious danger.

Too much exercise........
If you don't fuel your body before and during exercise you run the risk of your Bg levels dropping too low, as above.....you will then liver dump and elevate the levels. Exercise can both lower AND raise Bg levels. You have to feed your body to balance out the needs for energy and control of your Bg levels. You need some carbs to do so, some food or drink. The carbs didn't cause a hypo......they help prevent it.

You see the point.......it is NOT Carbs that fuel hypo's........it is the actions of individuals that fuel/drive hypo's.

I have read your latest, 'theories' and thoughts about why we should all low carb. Well many of us do but we call it reduced carbs......it just doesn't fit the criteria set out by the 'guru's', the ultra low carbers such as your self.

I eat between 60-80g carbs per day. That allows me to control my BG levels within the targets that together with my HCP's I have set myself. Target's which have allowed me to keep excellent Bg control, usually between 5-6 pre meals, and no more than 7 post meals. My fat intake is restricted, my choice. I don't have to eat strange foods, make alternatives to perfectly good food. If I want a spud I have some, I eat rice, bread, pasta......just normal food but in smaller portions. Nothing much is denied to me, everything in moderation. Now that has worked very well for me, maybe you should give it a try ?

I don't have any complications, my BP is well controlled at 110/65 on average. My eyesight has improved vastly since reducing the carbs in my diet. I have lost over 5 1/2 stone with little or no effort. I still eat carbs and enjoy food. I certainly wouldn't entertain the idea of cutting out all or nearly all carbs. Why take such drastic action if control can be achieved with simpler, more pleasurable measures, just by a sensible reduction.

You puzzle me. We have seen many of your posts over the time you have been a member. You very rarely tell us anything about yourself. You are full of 'strange' ideas........you always seem to be striving for control, trying to find some way to deal with complications. You say you don't test so how do you know what your levels are ? Some 'evidence' might help us here. Maybe I am wrong, maybe not........

So, if you don't mind......a few questions just so that we can get a better picture of you and how successful you are using your methods........it might convert us all......stranger things have happened.

1. What is your weight and height ?
2. What are your Bg levels pre meals, and 2 hrs after meals ? Not averages, actual numbers.
3. What was your last HbA1c ?
4. What is a typical days food/drink intake ?

That might help us all to understand where you are coming from.

However, just for the record.........Carbs do not DRIVE hypo's........individual's do unless there is a medical reason we are unaware of.

Ken

 

[Sid Bonkers]

The amount of carb the body actually needs - is Zero.

Does the brain not require carbs to function?

I have also been able to cut my insulin and Metformin requirements right down from 40 units and 3 x 850mg Metformin per day - and levels STILL up in double figures, to just 10 units and 1 Metformin every three or four days - and have even gone a week or more sometimes without needing any!

My Blood sugar rarely rises above 7 and is usually in or around normal range.

I have cut my insulin from 48 units a day and 4 metformin to just 4 metformin and I eat about 120g of carbs a day sometimes more if I feel like it Oh and my bg levels rarely bo above 7 either na na na na na.
Seriously Ali how many times do people have to say that we are ALL DIFFERENT and our diabetes is different too, some T2's are able to control their diabetes with minimal or even no meds and some can not and yours and my present meds are irrelevant to others whose conditions will be different.

If you are controlling your diabetes by eating no obvious carbs then thats fine but please stop telling me how dangerous carbs are when for most people and even most diabetics they are not.

To be honest I really cant be bothered to read most of your long winded posts banging on about the dangers of carbs and how fit and healthy you are now you have stopped eating them, it just smacks of spam to me. This is not a personal attack on you Ali it is just my opinion of your posts.

 

[carlos]

agree with your post somewhat after totally changing my diet for the last year to a low carbat first this worked brilliantly and lowered my bs but slowly they started to rise again my collestrol was rising etc after changing ta semi low carb biet like yourself my morning readings are down from 9.4 to 7.2 the highest one ive had in two wk is 7.4 i personally find that the fat content in a low carb diet spiked my sugars at 3 4 hrs not at 2 hrs i am upto 120 150 a day now feel better i do also find a lot of the comments recently posted about collestrol readings being 5.0 6.4 nothing to worry about somewhat unrealistic this is my own personal opinion and will now pursue my own way with my diabeates like yourself it gets a bit repetative listening to the same thing over and over wish everyone every succsess with there own way forward

 

[justfoundout]

I support Alib's take on this and put myself forward as evidence that changing to a non-processed diet plus low carbs does heal. At diagnosis I had so many ailments. Now I don't. That can't be coincidence.
Don't knock it until you try it I was always told. So what if she is passionate. You don't have to read it. But it might help someone. It did me.

 

[noblehead]

So what if she is passionate. You don't have to read it.

That's true justfoundout, I read AliB's first post and that was more than enough for me! :roll:

Nigel

 

[sugarless sue]

No one is arguing that this sort of diet helps some diabetics. However a lot of diabetics don't need to go that far to keep control of their diabetes. I am a low carber, have been for three years. I do not, however, need to restrict my carb intake to nil or almost nil to be able to keep control of MY diabetes.

As can be seen from various posts on the board the lowering of blood sugar levels to a 'normal' level can and does reverse some complications of diabetes especially if they are not advanced past the permanent damage stage.

Many cannot eat a lot of fat because of other health factors or a lot of protein because of on going kidney damage, many have intolerances to certain foods. You have to look at a person holistically and cannot generalise that the same thing that has helped you will help them. It may, but that is up to the individual to decide to try for themselves, that is their choice. We just give an all rounded view of ALL the options on this forum and question unsourced statements for the benefit of the members who are already struggling with a confusing condition.

 

[justfoundout]

If the ultra low carbers hadn't been so passioate I think I would still be sick with my ailments. Even pre diagnosis I tended to avoid the starchy carbs with bread and pasta being very rare bit actors in my diet. So for me Ali is part of the all round mix that pointed where I needed to go. But I'm sure she can fight her own corner if you all have tobe so horrible.

 

[AliB]

I don't have to eat strange foods

Umm, what is strange about meat, fish, poultry, eggs, veg and fats? Am I missing something? What on earth do you eat, if you find these foods 'strange'???

Most people I know eat most of those foods - at some point. Most days.

I don't post very often, because when I do, invariably I get shot down in flames by those that think I am just some weird fanatic. :shock: I am passionate about this, yes, but that is because I have seen nothing but good results from it, not only for myself but for many other people.

Why on earth could diet NOT be behind a lot of our modern ailments? As i pointed out - for the 99th time, cultures that don't eat our diet, generally don't get our bewildering array of diseases.

Hey - I thought like you at one point! But I question, and I probe, and I analyse - and I NEVER take anything at face value without investigating WHY.

It is interesting that the few occasions I have taken the bull by the horns and posted on here, it is always the same old crowd that are shooting the arrows. Yawn.

It is obvious that you haven't all read my boring long-winded posts properly either. I don't post on here very often so that is probably why I try and pack so much in to my posts! Maybe some people don't like my posts - but I try at least to make people THINK, if nothing else. After all - the current advice in general just isn't working. If it was, there would be less and less people developing Diabetes, and those who have it wouldn't be going blind and losing their feet.....

I am female, fat and over forty five. Five foot six but have lost three stone and counting. I have had weight issues and carb metabolism issues all my adult life with years of hypos preceding the inevitable onset of T2 13 years ago. I have a history of T1 and T2 in my family - my mother had Coeliac Disease, diagnosed way too late just a few weeks before she died - they only had 64 years to find it! She would have been far better off on a pure unprocessed diet too. My father had gluten intolerance and so would he.

Starting with an HBA1c well up in double figures, I have gradually reduced it - not through medication as despite being on 40 units and 3 Metformin I still could not get readings out of the double figures. A brief foray into Byetta reduced some of my weight, but not only didn't touch my blood sugar readings, but also trashed my digestion big-time - and I have spent the last two and a half years struggling to rebuild it. I hate drugs with a passion too!

As I said, because I do not eat carbs in any quantity, my blood sugar fluctuates very little - perhaps 1 mmol at the most - I already said what the levels generally are. I haven't had a cholesterol reading recently, but the last one was 3.8.

Had you read the post properly 'Sid', you would have seen that although I said the body doesn't need any carb, I also said that it can make what little it does need, from protein. Some seem to think that our bodies are really stupid. No, the body is very, very intelligent - we are the ones who are stupid! Give it what it needs, it will sort itself out. Believe it or not, the things we are told to avoid, like saturated fat and real salt are part of that process. Your cells are bathed in salt water, your eyes too, you sweat the stuff when you perspire. It heals and protects. We are not sea creatures, but we need the plethora of elements that are in it just as much as they do.

None of my health issues reversed until I started eating all-natural, unprocessed, unadulterated, pure food. I wonder why? :roll:

Why do people have kidney problems, cardiovascular problems, gallbladder problems, etc., in the first place? I have seen many reverse these issues on low carb. If the gallbladder doesn't get enough of a work-out, then it is quite possible for it to atrophy or get clogged. Low-fat can contribute to that. I got rid of my gallstones on low carb and have a very healthy gall-bladder.

Kidneys filter out and expel toxins from the body. If we take in more toxins than it can get rid of, they will end up accumulating in the tubes and the bladder (and anywhere else they can get to). A friend of ours has had bladder problems and ops. I was looking at him this morning - his skin is absolutely covered in brown warts and moles. His face and arms are plastered in them and have been getting worse (can't speak for the rest of his body but i have a good idea). He is extremely toxic. Now I am eating a pure diet my warts and moles are shrinking too! Even all the brown 'age spots' have gone from the backs of my hands!

I had a lot of intolerances to different foods, but they are all improving or have even abated. My husband is getting huge benefits from eating a pure diet too - and he isn't even Diabetic!

You may think I am mad - possibly even stark raving bonkers - but time will tell....

PS. Thanks 'justfoundout' for the lone vote of confidence - much appreciated. Now you see why I don't bother to post on here very often.

 

[sugarless sue]

Ali, this is a discussion area, we discuss things, we question things, in that way we learn and grow in experience.

 

[phoenix]

Actually I'm totally confused as to what diet is being argued for a high fat, high salt, ketogenic diet, a zero carb diet , the Maasai (incidently recent research shows they are still very healthy but seem to eat a fair amount of corn porridge... perhaps earlier reports of their limited diet were exagerated(?) )or the diet of early man?

I can't send everyone to sleep :roll: so I'll just mention the earliest. We all share an ancestry with the earliest humans in Africa who lived 100-50 thousand years ago. It is suggested they ate a diet of 35% carb, (fruits, veg, tubers but little dairy); 35% fat (less than 10% saturated, high in polyunsaturated) , 30% protein. They ate no added sodium, so there was little in the diet and over 100g of fibre (over 4 times many peoples intake today).With an average calorie intake of 2800 this would mean about 245g carb a day. (Eaton 2006)
This was not a ketogenic diet by any means ,I would suggest that relying on ketones would not have been a very good survival trait. Cahill (world class authority on ketones and advocate for ketones if you can advocate them) includes some examples where ketosis is not benign . He points out that starvation ketones in pregnant women all too frequently causes miscarriage.(Cahill: Fuel metabolism in Starvation, 2007).

As to modern diets, I have never on this forum seen anyone argue that energy dense over refined foods are good for us, whether they are carbs or manufactured fats, or as in almost everyone of your suggestions a mixture of both. I and others that suggest eating a diet including well chosen carbs would never propose Krispy creme doughnuts, mars bars or even home made fruit cake Personally I've never eaten the first, hate the second so haven't eaten one since childhood and it's been seven years since I had a slice of the latter.
Anyone who replaces this type of junk foods with less refined foods will probably reap health benefits. I'm sure I've read Ally say' ditch the junk'.

Frankly I think that zero carb diets ;therefore no veg, fruit, eggs , milk,even offal are extreme and I hope you're not seriously suggesting it. I looked up Charles Washington thinking from your description that he was an athlete. I certainly make no claims to be one (I' run but I'm slow). I found his latest age graded half marathon time is only 5% better than mine. His best times are at shorter distances and he doesn't seem to run further than a half marathon so he's never likely to hit the wall. Nevertheless, he obviously finds longer distances less easy, perhaps a few carbs might help him develop stamina so he could sustain his speed for longer :wink: I'll stick to my more conventional diet in preparation for my runs because ultimately it works well for me.

 

[justfoundout]

Sue
I thought this was a discussion. A answered questions posed. Commented that she hadn't claimed what another poster said. Sorry don't get the point you are making.
I like reading all this stuff and when people say "but what about" or challenge conventional wisdom. If the latter was so great we'd not have wars or famine.
So again IMHO these left field views add to things around here.

 

[cugila]

Sue
I thought this was a discussion. A answered questions posed. Commented that she hadn't claimed what another poster said. Sorry don't get the point you are making.
I like reading all this stuff and when people say "but what about" or challenge conventional wisdom. If the latter was so great we'd not have wars or famine.
So again IMHO these left field views add to things around here.

As Sue stated to ALi. This is a discussion area and there may well be conflicting views. That is all that Sue was pointing out, to clarify things. If there are any offensive things here we would take action.
So far nothing has been offensive .

Ken

 

[jenrose]

Ali

You wrote

'I have also been able to cut my insulin and Metformin requirements right down from 40 units and 3 x 850mg Metformin per day - and levels STILL up in double figures, to just 10 units and 1 Metformin every three or four days - and have even gone a week or more sometimes without needing any!'

I don't take insulin therefore I can't comment on that but I do take Metformin and from what I have been told, and read, about Metformin is that you need to take it on a regular basis - it does not work like taking an aspirin - just because you feel that you need to come down a 1.0 mmol/l or 2 at that time. When a person begins to take Metformin they should take it every day whether it is prescribed whether for once a day, or three times a day and it will take 2 - 3 weeks before it will work to it's optimum level and thereafter it should be continued to maintain that level. It is not meant to be taken ad lib.

I will not get in to the debate of zero carb as plenty of people have commented on that except to say I have cut down a lot on carbs and changed the type of carbs that I do eat and no way could I zero carb.

 

[Angeldust]

AliB,
Your post came across a little offensive to me and ever so slightly ignorant. I hope you're aware that we don't all do these things to ourselves.
As am sure is the case with a lot of people, I have always looked after myself, always been active and healthy (eating things in moderation, no stupid diets and making sure my body got all the vitamins and minerals it needed).6 years ago at the age of 18, out of the blue, I was struck with type one diabetes. I did everything I was told to look after myself. From there I developed hypothyroidism and every diabetic complication you could name.

I have severe gastroparesis. My body will barely digest fibre or fat. I can't eat raw foods. I had a double jejunostomy and for a year was not allowed any foods orally.
As you can imagine I'm sick of being on a liquid diet at such a young age..

So, I make sure I get 100% RDA of every vitamin and mineral my body needs and I eat CARBS.
White bread, white pasta. If I eat wholegrain it's gonna sit there until it comes right back up.
My body NEEDS insulin and being able to eat little, I need carbs to keep the balance. It's not like I'm consuming hundreds of grams a day but what I do eat needs to contain carbohydrate, I've got the balance right, I'm happy with that and my hba1c remains around 6 which for me is excellent.
I'm not doing anything wrong.

I'm a healthy weight right now, What I run the risk of is becoming severely underweight. Carbs also help my weight maintenance,

What you said about carbs not being needed for exercise is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Carbohydrate is your body's fuel. It is ESSENTIAL. I love to workout and if I didn't consume carbs I would literally die of hypoglycaemia.It is absolutely essential.

I just feel like you're preaching that carbs are the devil. They're an essential part of the balance us diabetics need to find...whether that be reducing them,,or in my case consuming more of them. Cutting them completely is a ridiculous fad invented for stupid people.. It is DANGEROUS.

 

[justfoundout]

AD
Can only answer as T2. I also have to watch the wider diet although you have drawn a really short straw.
So some things won't work for you that work for me. I did what hcp peeps said and like you I am here trying to not get any more woes.

 

[AliB]

The Metformin helps the liver use the Insulin more effectively so I have to take a Metformin when I take any insulin. I have never been informed, read or seen anywhere that the Metformin needs to be taken regularly. I do find though that the Insulin does work better for me if accompanied by a Metformin on the occasions I do take it.

But as I am eating low carb and that in itself is keeping the blood sugar down I cannot take any more insulin than I am at present.

I am not eating zero-carb myself, although I know of others who do, but my whole argument in this has been that whatever level of carbs one does eat, the more natural and unprocessed they are, the better they are for us. Right back at the start of this I did state that SOME carbs are evil - not that they ALL are. Depends what form they take.

If it is any comfort - I can't eat raw foods either. I cannot eat processed carbs. I cannot eat sugar. I cannot eat fruit. My trashed digestion will not let me. I am extremely grateful that I can eat protein and fats and some cooked vegetables. There was a time I could hardly eat anything. Although I had had IBS for 12 years, it was taking the Byetta that really finished it off. The IBS turned out to be down to gluten intolerance and an inability to metabolise carbs in general. But whilst prior to the Byetta it was manageable, since then I have been struggling to rebuild it.

But it is improving - gradually, and a heap of other health problems have gone away through eating this way. It has made me realise that it was the carbs and gluten that have been behind most of my health problems all my life. As long as I eat fresh natural food I am healing.

I don't consider any diet to be stupid, as long as it is based upon natural unprocessed food. I doubt that the Inuit consider their very healthy diet to be stupid! They eat little to no carbohydrate-based natural foods at all.

Carbohydrate is not the ONLY fuel. If it was, there would be NO Inuit or anyone else in the Northern Hemisphere who eats a similar diet.

 

[catherinecherub]

AliB,
You really need a review with regards to your medication. Metformin does not work from Day1 and you have to build the levels up by taking it regularly. Once the levels are established then taking it as and when you feel it is necessary will mean that your levels are not consistent, thereby reducing the benefits.
I think that the whole thrust of your experience leads you to believe that minimal carbs is the right way for diabetics to manage their condition. As I have said before, whatever floats your boat. What you may not realize is that the majority of us eat complex carbs at a level that suits us with no ill effects. Until you can accept that there is no right or wrong way to manage ones own diabetes then you will have difficulty understanding that people respond to carbs in an individual way.

As for the Inuits, Mother Nature works in a mysterious way and adapted their race to survive. They have a highly evolved physiology that makes them well suited to life in the Arctic. They have a compact build that conserves warmth, a fast metabolism and optimally distributed body fat, all essential for their survival. They couldn't eat what they didn't have.
It will take several generations before they adapt to a Western way of life. I have a friend, a Dr., who runs a hospital in the Yukon for mainly Indians and Inuits. She has worked really hard at researching the Inuits' culture and ancestry. It is their adaptation to another culture that is causing their health problems. They cannot hunt and fish in a town and do not experience the harsh conditions of the Arctic. It is the same for all cultures, Mother Nature determined their physiology.

The Maasai diet has evolved to include substantial amounts of grains including maize and beans and they also eat rice, potatoes and cabbage grown in neighbouring areas.

http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Maasai_people#Diet

If you have studies the Industrial Revolution of Great Britain then you will know that the country populations who moved to the towns and cities to gain employment suffered many health problems. They had been able to supplement their diet with plants and berries grown in the countryside but that option was now closed to them and they could not afford to buy produce.

Charles Dickens was a champion of the poor and he describes their diet in many of his novels. They ate carbohydrates and offal, gruel, potatoes, liver, sheeps heads etc. It wan't the consumption of carbs that was killing the poor but the lack of vegetables and fruits. I know that housing and sanitation was also to blame but if you cannot afford to eat properly then you have little defence against any illness.

Nobody here is telling people what they can and cannot eat as we are all different. People with other health problems may well have to eat refined carbs, we do not dictate the right or wrong way to mange diabetes because there is no right or wrong way.

To the OP who asked, "How much danger do carbohydrates to to diabetics?" I would say that it depends on the diabetic and there is no one way, you have to find something that suits you.

 

[Sid Bonkers]

Had you read the post properly 'Sid', you would have seen that although I said the body doesn't need any carb, I also said that it can make what little it does need, from protein. Some seem to think that our bodies are really stupid............................

Er, so it does need carbs then

Why is it that every time you post you seem to feel the need to defend your method of control, when I post, if I talk about my diet or method of control at all it will be in answer to a specific question, I don't then feel the need to qualify why I sometimes eat grapefruit for breakfast by talking about Eskimo peoples or how my body only needs grapefruit to work and everyone can survive on just grapefruit for breakfast.
Actually, some folk like to have a slice of toast and a coffee and others like to have egg and bacon. I am getting bored of saying WE ARE ALL DIFFERENT.